HappyDays Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 hours ago, NewEra said: -Ed oliver has a 64 pff rating -Leonard Floyd has a 57 pff rating -Bernard is 65….. -while Dodson is the 2nd best LB in the game at 89+, but he’s not the 2nd best LB in the league mcgovern and Torrance have been better than their off rating suggests. pff can be a decent gauge. It can also provide false narratives if that’s how you were to grade a player I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL. On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did. I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 hours ago, SWATeam said: LOL, and those 13 include Deshaun Watson, Tommy DeVito, Josh Dobbs, Jimmy Garoppolo and Zach Wilson... Why did you happen to select that group of QBs? Also below Josh are Jackson, Mahomes, and Hurts. I assume you can see the pattern here? Here's the top 10 in that stat: Tua Mac Jones Siemian Lawrence Burrow Zappe Ridder Carr Browning Mayfield My takeaway is that it's a totally meaningless stat that tells you nothing about the quality of the QB or of the OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Why did you happen to select that group of QBs? Also below Josh are Jackson, Mahomes, and Hurts. I assume you can see the pattern here? Here's the top 10 in that stat: Tua Mac Jones Siemian Lawrence Burrow Zappe Ridder Carr Browning Mayfield My takeaway is that it's a totally meaningless stat that tells you nothing about the quality of the QB or of the OL. I was identifying guys included in that number that have not really played a ton this year. When you say "13 guys below him" you would think that would be starting QB's, not just anyone that has played QB this year. Agree on the stat not meaning much regarding the quality of the QB. A lot of the current best QB's hold it. My only point is that style puts additional pressure on the OL for having to sustain blocks. While Josh does make the line better by getting out of trouble with his mobility, he also makes it tough on them at times by being among the league leaders for holding the ball. That's it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 I believe it. By this time next year OT better be the RG all pro choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somnus00 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 They've certainly improved. But so has Josh's pocket awareness. There have been games where he is running for his life and avoids the sacks. I believe, last I saw, the Bills were like 11th in pressures allowed, but 1st in sacks allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL. On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did. I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season. So on Torrence it is in part because he was really good the first 5 or 6 weeks. Teams were putting their best defensive tackles on him and he was winning. Consistently. And the narrative built. What happened is teams watched film and they started using hybrid types or out and out edge players inside to speed rush the inside shoulder. Torrence does have a weakness there. And I think to an extent he always will because his foot speed is sub-optimal (which was the fit point some of us worried about when he was coming out). I expect the Bills staff to really work hard on technique in trying to mitigate that in the offseason and they can probably do so to an extent. But it will always be there. That said, his anchor continues to be really impressive and if he gets the first punch in on a defender it is rep over and he is a run game mauler (and has played a big part in turning us around in that regard). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Yep. Interesting use of the word "battery". Does he basically mean "connection"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: I don't blindly trust PFF grades, that is fair. I'm just saying even by their own grading system calling us the 4th ranked OL is somewhat of a mirage. The 4th ranked DL would be elite. The 4th ranked group of pass catchers would be elite. Because OL talent across the league is so bad this year, unless you have a top 2 OL it's not really making a difference in the game. I don't think our OL has been a true advantage this year. But it has been good enough which is all you can ask for in the modern NFL. On Torrence, I think a narrative has formed that he has performed better than he really has, likely because fans are comparing it to the truly awful play that we got last year. He has had major issues getting beaten inside for most of the season. He's pretty consistently been the weak link. But similar to what I said above, most OLs have a weak link or two so relative to the rest of the league it's not a huge deal. Hiding a guard is easy anyways, as long as they aren't so awful they wreck game plans like Saffold did. I'm not saying Torrence was a bad pick by the way. You have to be patient with rookie o-linemen these days and he's certainly shown a strong foundation for development. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top 10 guard by his 3rd season. I hear ya. I think our OL might be a top 4-5- hard to say. I don’t watch enough in depth OL play from the other teams. When watching non Bills games, I feel that the most offensive lines are below average and that the level of OL play is lesser now than ever. It seems that most fans think their OLs are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, Capco said: Interesting use of the word "battery". Does he basically mean "connection"? I think Gruden is using it in the way the pitcher and catcher is called the battery in baseball, so yes "connection". 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Billy Claude said: I think Gruden is using it in the way the pitcher and catcher is called the battery in baseball, so yes "connection". Ahh I wasn't aware of the baseball reference. That makes sense. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 6 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: I believe it. By this time next year OT better be the RG all pro choice. You mean we aren’t going to be discussing that Spencer Brown contract all summer? I’d get ahead of it - we know we have a quality starter. He may take it to free agency or maybe we lock him up to a 4 year 30 million dollar deal or something like that. Puts him right in the middle here: https://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle One less hole to fill - we’re going to have enough on the D line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 16 hours ago, SWATeam said: I was identifying guys included in that number that have not really played a ton this year. When you say "13 guys below him" you would think that would be starting QB's, not just anyone that has played QB this year. Agree on the stat not meaning much regarding the quality of the QB. A lot of the current best QB's hold it. My only point is that style puts additional pressure on the OL for having to sustain blocks. While Josh does make the line better by getting out of trouble with his mobility, he also makes it tough on them at times by being among the league leaders for holding the ball. That's it. Yea. Time to throw is a mismash of so many things. Your OL. Your QB's speed in his progressions. Your offensive design. It can show you things. And generally when Josh is at his best his time to throw is down slightly and that is because it generally means he is in command, confident and reading things decisively so gets the ball out. But the way he extends plays he is never going to be a Joe Burrow in that stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 I always knew Spencer Brown would turn into a good OT. 🤥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Shhhhhh. Don’t talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Looking stellar so far today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Hopkins Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Are they graded on passing blocking or do they ignore that part of the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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