Start a "Let Josh Run" petition

[Success]

I hope another JA thread isn't annoying, and this has been said on a few other discussions - but Josh Allen went from being the most effective QB in the NFL on the ground, to NOT RUNNING AT ALL.  

 

If Dorsey & the offensive staff aren't meeting today, determining that their little "tell Josh not to run" experiment failed, and changing course, something is very wrong.  It is as obvious and clear as anything that is wrong w/ the team right now.

 

Allen is a top 10 QB as a passer.  He is a top 2 QB as a passer and runner.  

 

Fix it.

 

[Big Turk]

100% agree...they have willingly made themselves much easier to defend on offense.  I get they don't want Allen running "as much" but that doesn't mean cut it out completely.  Now he seems so scared to take off he's passing up chunks of yards for low percentage passes that have almost no chance of being completed, or simply throwing it away. Or worse, waiting until it's too late to run then throwing it away when if he would had taken off sooner he had a lot of room to run.

 

At this point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face on offense.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[BarleyNY]

I never thought the answer was not allowing Allen to run, only that he had to be more judicious wrt sliding and getting OOB rather than taking unnecessary hits. 

[Mango]

He took off 7 times yesterday for 2 yards and change per carry. He wasn’t effective/
 

Last year Josh had the most rushing attempts of his career more or less matching his 2021 numbers in one less game.

 

He is averaging a yard per carry more than he did in 18, 19, and 20. 

I feel like people are just yelling at clouds and romanticizing a past that didn’t really exist. 

 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

He took off 7 times yesterday for 2 yards and change per carry. He wasn’t effective/
 

Last year Josh had the most rushing attempts of his career more or less matching his 2021 numbers in one less game.

 

He is averaging a yard per carry more than he did in 18, 19, and 20. 

I feel like people are just yelling at clouds and romanticizing a past that didn’t really exist. 

 

 

3 of those were sneaks. More often he ran around and then waited until it was too late to run or threw a super low completion chance pass instead of taking off

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

100% agree...they have willingly made themselves much easier to defend on offense.  I get they don't want Allen running "as much" but that doesn't mean cut it out completely.  Now he seems so scared to take off he's passing up chunks of yards for low percentage passes that have almost no chance of being completed, or simply throwing it away. Or worse, waiting until it's too late to run then throwing it away when if he would had taken off sooner he had a lot of room to run.

 

At this point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face on offense.

Honest question. When they do film review, and they see Allen chuck it to Diggs in double coverage when he has 10 yards of green grass in front of hi, do you think the staff is saying “great job Josh!”?

 

I don’t.

 

I don’t think Josh has a good feel for his run game unless he can run violently. Don’t forget he came into this league as a QB with happy feet who would leave the pocket early without letting the play develop. Josh figuring out when and when not to run has always been a rollercoaster.  

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

Honest question. When they do film review, and they see Allen chuck it to Diggs in double coverage when he has 10 yards of green grass in front of hi, do you think the staff is saying “great job Josh!”?

 

I don’t.

 

I don’t think Josh has a good feel for his run game unless he can run violently. Don’t forget he came into this league as a QB with happy feet who would leave the pocket early without letting the play develop. Josh figuring out when and when not to run has always been a rollercoaster.  

 

They can't have it both ways...they need to let him play or they are going to suffer the consequences.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Drew21PA]

I’m all for this never felt he should have been “reigned in” personally - knew it was going to be a bad idea 

 

but I also know people on this board who were so “scared” their franchise was going to get hurt

 

he is hurt psychologically now so take your pick

 

LET HIM PLAY BALL!!!!

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

3 of those were sneaks. More often he ran around and then waited until it was too late to run or threw a super low completion chance pass instead of taking off

I find it difficult to separate my frustrations with Josh’s decisions in the passing game with my frustrations from his decision making in the run game. 

 

 

[Drew21PA]

He use to be Josh FREAKING Allen

 

no he is “fricken Josh Allen…”

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I find it difficult to separate my frustrations with Josh’s decisions in the passing game with my frustrations from his decision making in the run game. 

 

 

 

I think they are related honestly.  He is almost coached to the point where he is scared to take off when it's there and tries to sit back and let something develop.  Mahomes has gone in completely the other direction...if it's not there he is gone from the pocket and has been running more than he ever has this year to pick up chunks with his legs.

[Buffalo03]

Is there any way we can fax a copy to Dorsey?

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

They can't have it both ways...they need to let him play or they are going to suffer the consequences.

I strongly disagree with this. At an
 

Your QB has to be able to evolve, protect himself, and protect the ball. This isn’t crazy. Carolina leaned into Cam and he burned hot then flamed out super quickly. He was toast by the time he as 28.

If Allen doesn’t figure this out and evolve he’ll do the same. Either that or we have 2,3,4 years of good Allen and he’s done.
 

My guess is McD has a bit of PTSD around this and is trying to get ahead of it. Bring somebody else in to coach the offense  that’s fine. But if we want Allen to do this for a long time in Buffalo he has to be better at picking his spots. 
 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I strongly disagree with this. At an
 

Your QB has to be able to evolve, protect himself, and protect the ball. This isn’t crazy. Carolina leaned into Cam and he burned hot then flamed out super quickly. He was toast by the time he as 28.

If Allen doesn’t figure this out and evolve he’ll do the same. Either that or we have 2,3,4 years of good Allen and he’s done.
 

My guess is McD has a bit of PTSD around this and is trying to get ahead of it. Bring somebody else in to coach the offense  that’s fine. But if we want Allen to do this for a long time in Buffalo he has to be better at picking his spots. 
 

 

Does Hurts seem afraid to run?  Mahomes?  Jackson?  Even Lawrence and Herbert have been using their legs. Pickett with the Steelers ran 14 times yesterday for God's Sake. Mahomes is running more than ever this year

 

No, all of them are running frequently.  Only Allen suddenly needs to be afraid to take off and he is bigger and stronger than all of them.

 

Last year Allen had 124 rushes, Mahomes had 66.  This year Mahomes has 33 and Allen has 29.  Allen has gone from running twice as much almost to less than Mahomes.  That's a problem.  

 

Hurts and Jackson have 69+ rushes each so far this year. Lawrence even has 41...Allen only has 1 more than Justin Herbert who NEVER tries to run and always is looking to throw downfield...Herbert finished with 54 last season.  

 

This is a PROBLEM.  Allen is not running nearly AT ALL in comparison to last year and players who should be half or less than what he has in rushing attempts are above him this year or right with him.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I never thought the answer was not allowing Allen to run, only that he had to be more judicious wrt sliding and getting OOB rather than taking unnecessary hits. 

sometimes you just can’t change the players mentality.

 

Allen’s will to make the most of every single play regardless of game situation is what has made Allen so great.
 

I get that folks worry about injuries. But if it comes to that I’d rather have Allen at 100% of his capabilities for a 10 year career versus an 85% in Allen for 15+ year career.

 

 

[Drew21PA]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

sometimes you just can’t change the players mentality.

 

Allen’s will to make the most of every single play regardless of game situation is what has made Allen so great.
 

I get that folks worry about injuries. But if it comes to that I’d rather have Allen at 100% of his capabilities for a 10 year career versus an 85% in Allen for 15+ year career.

 

 

Or at least an Allen right now that uses his 100% capabilities until we get an offensive guy in here worth a damn

[Success]

As some have said - don't hurdle. Slide.

 

That's it. Otherwise, play ball.  Play w/ joy & go w/ your instincts.

 

[Mango]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Does Hurts seem afraid to run?  Mahomes?  Jackson?  

 

No, all of them are running frequently.  Only Allen suddenly needs to be afraid to take off and he is bigger and stronger than all of them.

I think there is a narrative that they’ve asked Josh to stop running. I’m don’t think that’s the case. The ask is to stop trucking LB’s.

 

I don’t watch a ton of the Eagles, but Mahomes and Jackson do a better job of protecting themselves. 
 

I’m not saying he shouldn’t run. And I doubt the staff is either. Take the green space. But get down, get out, protect the ball. Avoid contact except for the most important moments. 
 

This feels so simple with really bad execution. 

[Drew21PA]

1 minute ago, Success said:

As some have said - don't hurdle. Slide.

 

That's it. Otherwise, play ball.  Play w/ joy & go w/ your instincts.

 

Run

 

but run smarter is what I always said

 

i never gave two ***** he led the team in rushing or “he put the whole team on his back”

 

No kidding!?  I want my guy doing that!  I want to win!!!

[Ramza86]

While I 100% need this man to start running people over again.....I will say there was a spy on him almost the whole game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

I strongly disagree with this. At an
 

Your QB has to be able to evolve, protect himself, and protect the ball. This isn’t crazy. Carolina leaned into Cam and he burned hot then flamed out super quickly. He was toast by the time he as 28.

If Allen doesn’t figure this out and evolve he’ll do the same. Either that or we have 2,3,4 years of good Allen and he’s done.
 

My guess is McD has a bit of PTSD around this and is trying to get ahead of it. Bring somebody else in to coach the offense  that’s fine. But if we want Allen to do this for a long time in Buffalo he has to be better at picking his spots. 
 

I feel like he’s been doing that this season. Picking his spots. And so far that’s lead to what looks like a season where we will be hoping to make the wildcard. Is that really what we want out of the next 10+ years of Allen’s career?

 

we should start to consider that we simply might not be able to reign Allen in and not have it detrimentally affect other parts of his game.

 

is our best chance for a Super Bowl Allen playing at 100% of his effectiveness for the next four years or at 85% for the next 10?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don’t think it’s possible to put handcuffs on Josh Allen. For years everyone has said slide but he never listened. Coaches, media, and fans would say get down don’t take unnecessary hits. He still did it.

 

I think Josh is in Josh’s head now. Trying to play more under control. I don’t think anyone can change Josh other than Josh. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I feel like he’s been doing that this season. Picking his spots. And so far that’s lead to what looks like a season where we will be hoping to make the wildcard. Is that really what we want out of the next 10+ years of Allen’s career?

 

we should start to consider that we simply might not be able to reign Allen in and not have it detrimentally affect other parts of his game.

 

is our best chance for a Super Bowl Allen playing at 100% of his effectiveness for the next four years or at 85% for the next 10?

 

He has been playing far more like Herbert this year where he is trying to extend plays far too long to throw downfield versus just taking off when he has the chance.  Herbert had 54 rushes last year, Allen had 124. This year Allen has 29 and Herbert 28. Allen is trying to play someone else's game instead of his own.  Even Mahomes and Lawrence have more rushes than Allen this year...Pickett had almost half as many rushes in 1 game yesterday with 14 than Allen does on the entire season.  

 

Allen is not threatening the D enough with his legs and they aren't respecting that part of the game so they are sticking with receivers more downfield because they know he wants to throw, not run...they aren't coming up at all anymore and it's making the windows much tighter.

 

Run more! 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I feel like he’s been doing that this season. Picking his spots. And so far that’s lead to what looks like a season where we will be hoping to make the wildcard. Is that really what we want out of the next 10+ years of Allen’s career?

 

we should start to consider that we simply might not be able to reign Allen in and not have it detrimentally affect other parts of his game.

 

is our best chance for a Super Bowl Allen playing at 100% of his effectiveness for the next four years or at 85% for the next 10?

This is fair. 
 

I think I have some frustration around this topic because on one hand as a board we regularly talk about “no team asks their QB to do more and carry such a heavy load”. Then when we do that the entire board goes “Let Allen cook! You can’t tame the stallion”

 

I actually agree with posters like @Big Turk a lot, but today I find myself arguing with the plethora of commenters/topics vicariously through him. Sorry about that dude. Haha

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

He has been playing far more like Herbert this year where he is trying to extend plays far too long to throw downfield versus just taking off when he has the chance.  Herbert had 54 rushes last year, Allen had 124. This year Allen has 29 and Herbert 28. Allen is trying to play someone else's game instead of his own.  Even Mahomes and Lawrence have more rushes than Allen this year...Pickett had almost half as many rushes in 1 game yesterday with 14 than Allen does on the entire season.  

 

Run more! 

That’s a fantastic point Big Turk. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is fair. 
 

I think I have some frustration around this topic because on one hand as a board we regularly talk about “no team asks their QB to do more and carry such a heavy load”. Then when we do that the entire board goes “Let Allen cook! You can’t tame the stallion”

 

I actually agree with posters like @Big Turk a lot, but today I find myself arguing with the plethora of commenters/topics vicariously through him. Sorry about that dude. Haha

 

My issue is Allen is trying to become Herbert...extend plays and throw downfield but only run as a last resort.  That ISN'T his game!  Herbert has 28 rushes this year, Allen 29.  Last year Herbert had 54 for the season, Allen 124.  This is an issue!  

 

Allen needs to play his game more...he isn't threatening the D with his legs anymore on those rollouts so they are staying back more and covering the receivers downfield since they know he wants to throw not run...he needs to keep them honest in that way to open that back up again.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Big Turk

[BarleyNY]

14 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

sometimes you just can’t change the players mentality.

 

Allen’s will to make the most of every single play regardless of game situation is what has made Allen so great.
 

I get that folks worry about injuries. But if it comes to that I’d rather have Allen at 100% of his capabilities for a 10 year career versus an 85% in Allen for 15+ year career.

 

 

 

I agree. But Allen can still be himself while not trying to run through defenders in a regular season game while we are leading. 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t think it’s possible to put handcuffs on Josh Allen. For years everyone has said slide but he never listened. Coaches, media, and fans would say get down don’t take unnecessary hits. He still did it.

 

I think Josh is in Josh’s head now. Trying to play more under control. I don’t think anyone can change Josh other than Josh. 

Honest question, just breaking this down and applying it to the rest of the offensive output this year. To your point his coaches say “don’t do that” And for years Allen says “no”.
 

Where else is this popping up?
 

I don’t necessarily think this, I think Josh is coachable. Which is why I find his decisions frustrating at times. But it did create some thoughts. 

 

 

[Perry Turtle]

Dorsey's schemes and play-calling cannot support a pocket passer.

[Success]

And another petition:  the no-huddle WORKS.

 

When the offense is stagnant, they should give it a try more often.

 

[HOUSE]

Oh sure, I sign a petition than Josh tears an ACL  and the mob shows up at my door. 

Pass

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

And another petition:  the no-huddle WORKS.

 

When the offense is stagnant, they should give it a try more often.

 

 

Even muddle huddle would work where they simply get on the ball and force the D to keep the same personnel on the field once they get what they want.

Just now, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

Oh sure, I sign a petition than Josh tears an ACL  and the mob shows up at my door. 

Pass

 

Much more likely to have that happen with him in the pocket.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

46 minutes ago, Mango said:

Honest question, just breaking this down and applying it to the rest of the offensive output this year. To your point his coaches say “don’t do that” And for years Allen says “no”.
 

Where else is this popping up?
 

I don’t necessarily think this, I think Josh is coachable. Which is why I find his decisions frustrating at times. But it did create some thoughts. 

 

 

Josh is definitely coachable. Had nothing to do with that. It’s when he takes off he tries to do way too much. No one has been able to convince Josh to avoid hits. Not McDermott, not Daboll, not Dorsey, not Diggs, not anyone.

 

Dont we remember week 1? Josh was out of control. McDermott and even Diggs told him to play smarter after he tried going through the Jets defense. Then after they both said that to him he was still jumping over tacklers and taking hits.

 

This is a Josh issue. He has to control himself when running. I think he’s gotten in his head and just doesn’t run anymore.