Elon Musk, War puppeteer

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Agreed- as should the American government…

 

If US cuts off its funding, the war ends tomorrow…

Helluva way to "end" a war. 

And yeah, that won't embolden Putin at all.

7 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-secretly-used-starlink-to-foil-ukrainian-drone-attack-on-russian-ships-report

 

CNN and NYT also reporting on him turning off Starlink when Ukranian drones approached Russian ships.  An unelected crazy MAGA playing actual master of the universe.  Feel free to comment.

As I understand it, Musk isn't saying he's doing it to favor Russia or disfavor Ukraine or any such thing. He simply doesn't want his company to get involved in the hostilities at all. If he provides Starlink access to Ukraine to facilitate civil communications, and continues to do so, that's still a good thing.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Helluva way to "end" a war. 

And yeah, that won't embolden Putin at all.

As I understand it, Musk isn't saying he's doing it to favor Russia or disfavor Ukraine or any such thing. He simply doesn't want his company to get involved in the hostilities at all. If he provides Starlink access to Ukraine to facilitate civil communications, and continues to do so, that's still a good thing.

He ordered his starlink engineers to turn it off destroying a Ukrainian drone mission that he was concerned would look like Pearl Harbor.  Not his place. 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Helluva way to "end" a war. 

And yeah, that won't embolden Putin at all.

As I understand it, Musk isn't saying he's doing it to favor Russia or disfavor Ukraine or any such thing. He simply doesn't want his company to get involved in the hostilities at all. If he provides Starlink access to Ukraine to facilitate civil communications, and continues to do so, that's still a good thing.

 

Embolden him to do what?  Invade another country?  Not even remotely possible now.

 

And I agree with you on Musk.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Embolden him to do what?  Invade another country?  Not even remotely possible now.

 

And I agree with you on Musk.

Here's what I learned a long time ago. I believe it still holds true today.

 

1. In the modern world, democracies don't got to war with democracies. Really. Try to find a counterexample. At least one side is some type of authoritarian government. This is called "the democratic peace."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory#:~:text=The democratic peace theory posits,better than democratic peace theory.

 

2. Wars are therefore explained by two factors: (a) the existence of an aggressive dictatorship or other undemocratic regime; and (b) the lack of effective deterrence.

We can easily see that with Russia and Ukraine. Factor (a) is self-evident. Factor (b) is seen in the weak - in reality, nonexistent - consequences of Putin's invasion/annexation of Crimea, and in the tepid expressions of support for Ukraine in the international community, including the United States. With respect to the USA, this is not a Republican/Democrat or Obama/Trump/Biden issue. The support for the independence of an intact Ukraine was tepid under all administrations. There was likewise a lack of clear support from Europe; imagine something formal from Finland and Sweden saying that they are beginning negotiations to join NATO with an eye toward doing so if Russia does not respect the territorial integrity of the (non-Crimea) Ukraine.

 

Sometimes the theory does explain everything, but we only recognize that in the rear view mirror.

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Here's what I learned a long time ago. I believe it still holds true today.

 

1. In the modern world, democracies don't got to war with democracies. Really. Try to find a counterexample. At least one side is some type of authoritarian government. This is called "the democratic peace."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory#:~:text=The democratic peace theory posits,better than democratic peace theory.

 

2. Wars are therefore explained by two factors: (a) the existence of an aggressive dictatorship or other undemocratic regime; and (b) the lack of effective deterrence.

We can easily see that with Russia and Ukraine. Factor (a) is self-evident. Factor (b) is seen in the weak - in reality, nonexistent - consequences of Putin's invasion/annexation of Crimea, and in the tepid expressions of support for Ukraine in the international community, including the United States. With respect to the USA, this is not a Republican/Democrat or Obama/Trump/Biden issue. The support for the independence of an intact Ukraine was tepid under all administrations. There was likewise a lack of clear support from Europe; imagine something formal from Finland and Sweden saying that they are beginning negotiations to join NATO with an eye toward doing so if Russia does not respect the territorial integrity of the (non-Crimea) Ukraine.

 

Sometimes the theory does explain everything, but we only recognize that in the rear view mirror.

 

Perfect...unless you desire authoritarianism.

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

A good way to end a home invasion sooner is to let the invader do as they please.  

Home invasion is different…The Ukraine situation is about the US creating the problem, and then using tax payer dollars to keep it going- pushing us closer and closer to WW3….

 

Make no mistake, if WW3 ever does come about, it was by choice…

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Home invasion is different…The Ukraine situation is about the US creating the problem, and then using tax payer dollars to keep it going- pushing us closer and closer to WW3….

 

Make no mistake, if WW3 ever does come about, it was by choice…

The US wanted Russia to invade Ukraine killing 100's of thousands, destroying crops and infrastructure and kidnapping their kids?  Really?  Used to be that R's worried about communist creep.  This time it's a jump with most of Eastern Europe within reach.  What is wrong with you?

 

I think the Russian's do.  And they'll be totally annihilated if they use nukes.  I don't believe they want that any more than we do.  We could use that excuse to abstain should they enter Poland or the next country.  The possession of nukes can't be a free pass...

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

The US wanted Russia to invade Ukraine killing 100's of thousands, destroying crops and infrastructure and kidnapping their kids?  Really?  Used to be that R's worried about communist creep.  This time it's a jump with most of Eastern Europe within reach.  What is wrong with you?

 

I think the Russian's do.  And they'll be totally annihilated if they use nukes.  I don't believe they want that any more than we do.  We could use that excuse to abstain should they enter Poland or the next country.  The possession of nukes can't be a free pass...

 

The Military Industrial Complex does not care about how many Ukrainians die in this conflict…I know that may be hard for some to swallow, but it’s true…

 

Ukraine is the sacrificial lamb in America’s economic proxy war with Russia…It has NOTHING to do with democracy, liberty, or any of the other cute catch phrases our captured msm wants to propagandize to you to get you to support the war (just like the Iraq War)…But it has everything to do with the US wanting to be the main energy supplier to Europe, instead of Russia…is that worth 500,000 Ukrainian lives? How about 1 million? And why stop there?

 

And all you have to do is look at our foreign policy history over the last 75 years…we’ve done this all over the world time and time again…

 

If you cannot start with this very simple and basic fact, there is nothing I can do for you by continuing this conversation…

 

There has to be a foundation by which we both agree, to ever think of having a dialogue…Otherwise, we are communicating with languages from two different planets…👍

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by JaCrispy

[BillStime]

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Which one?

At this point, all of your posts........

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

At this point, all of your posts........

Regarding? 

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Good!

 

Maybe it will help end the war sooner…

You do realize that one side attack the other first, right
 

Sometimes I get a maze the people have to have this explain to them

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-secretly-used-starlink-to-foil-ukrainian-drone-attack-on-russian-ships-report

 

CNN and NYT also reporting on him turning off Starlink when Ukranian drones approached Russian ships.  An unelected crazy MAGA playing actual master of the universe.  Feel free to comment.

this is my world and can tell you this is garbage. Fact- Musk directed his teams to alter their carriers almost overnight in unprecedented fashion and deploy free service to connect the Ukraine people to unadulterated uncensored information (internet). Which evaded the Russian jamming that was in place. 
 

this allowed the people access. 
 

if the Ukrainian army abused this effort to attempt a military drone strike using that same infrastructure then it’s on them. He’s not a party of the military network architecture. 
 

It would be like the us army using at&ts network to attack china … 

 

stupid hit piece by dumb people that hate real free speech advocates that aren’t puppets of the  state. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

He ordered his starlink engineers to turn it off destroying a Ukrainian drone mission that he was concerned would look like Pearl Harbor.  Not his place. 

Why are they using a residential internet service to deliver a military attack? 
 

did they sign a contract with starlink saying we are using your satellite constellation to attack a sovereign country? 
 

what if Russia starts blowing up starlink satellites ? 
 

You’re jumping to conclusions in a world far removed from your expertise 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[JaCrispy]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You do realize that one side attack the other first, right
 

Sometimes I get a maze the people have to have this explain to them

You mean back in 2014 when American backed Nazis were slaughtering the ethnic Russians that lived in eastern Ukraine?

 

Maybe you can help explain that story to me…😉

 

Sorry, man, but if we’re being fair, we have to tell the WHOLE story, and not just the part that fits a narrative or an agenda…

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by JaCrispy

[ALF]

nonsense ☝️  Putin propaganda 

[BillStime]

[Orlando Tim]

To @Tiberius and @John from Riverside what does minimal acceptable peace look like to you? At this point the war have destroyed the Russian ability to start another war, the war has decimated the young male population of both Ukraine and Russia, and we now know that Russians are not going to turn on Putin soon. What will more war account?

[JaCrispy]

56 minutes ago, ALF said:

nonsense ☝️  Putin propaganda 

Which part? Can you be specific?

[B-Man]

24 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Which part? Can you be specific?

 

No.

 

Putin 'propaganda' is all they got.

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

did they sign a contract with starlink saying we are using your satellite constellation to attack a sovereign country? 

they did sign a military contract.  and it was Russia that invaded a sovereign country  The drone attack was going to be in Crimea.  Which was Ukraine until a few years ago when the russians invaded.

 

https://www.army.mil/article/254316/army_tests_commercial_satellite_internet_in_pilot_program

 

my understanding is that The Dept of Defense is looking into or already entered into alternative sources.

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

You mean back in 2014 when American backed Nazis were slaughtering the ethnic Russians that lived in eastern Ukraine?

 

Maybe you can help explain that story to me…😉

 

Sorry, man, but if we’re being fair, we have to tell the WHOLE story, and not just the part that fits a narrative or an agenda…

 

 

You mean like about slavery...

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said:

they did sign a military contract.  and it was Russia that invaded a sovereign country  The iron e attack was going to be in Crimea.  Which was Ukraine until a few years ago when the russians invaded.

nope- they did not. You’re full of *****. Since you support Ukraine are you fine with them using all the devices in your home to cyberattack the Kremlin even if you house burns down as a consequence? 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Ukraine is the sacrificial lamb in America’s economic proxy war with Russia…It has NOTHING to do with democracy, liberty, or any of the other cute catch phrases our captured msm wants to propagandize to you to get you to support the war (just like the Iraq War)…But it has everything to do with the US wanting to be the main energy supplier to Europe, instead of Russia…is that worth 500,000 Ukrainian lives? How about 1 million? And why stop there?

If we stop support, then they become sacrificial lambs.  They are fighting for their lives.  Look back at what Stalin did to them thru starvation.  They haven't forgotten.  They know what will happen if they lose.

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

nope- they did not. You’re full of *****. Since you support Ukraine are you fine with them using all the devices in your home to cyberattack the Kremlin even if you house burns down as a consequence? 

https://www.army.mil/article/254316/army_tests_commercial_satellite_internet_in_pilot_program

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/pentagon-buys-starlink-ukraine-statement-2023-06-01/

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

If we stop support, then they become sacrificial lambs.  They are fighting for their lives.  Look back at what Stalin did to them thru starvation.  They haven't forgotten.  They know what will happen if they lose.

https://www.army.mil/article/254316/army_tests_commercial_satellite_internet_in_pilot_program

Are you high? Army.mil=Ukrainian army?

You know other countries have different armies right? 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Are you high? Army.mil=Ukrainian army?

You know other countries have different armies right? 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/pentagon-buys-starlink-ukraine-statement-2023-06-01/

Are u high?  It's a proxy war,  Ukraine = US and the Ukrainians are glad of that.

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

TheRussians want war and want to know how far they can go before we blink...

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/pentagon-buys-starlink-ukraine-statement-2023-06-01/

Are u high?  It's a proxy war,  Ukraine = US and the Ukrainians are glad of that.

So this article says Musk is going out of his way to help l, even incurring deficits.

 

so which is it? 

You literally are refuting your own argument now. That’s  such a typical pattern for you my friend… 😂 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So this article says Musk is going out of his way to help incurring deficits.

 

so which is it? 

It's this

"The Pentagon contract is a boon for SpaceX after Musk, the company's CEO, said in October it could not afford to indefinitely fund Starlink in Ukraine, an effort he said cost $20 million a month to maintain."

The US is now funding the $20 mil a month or some amount not announced as described further in the article due to the sensitive nature of the deal.  Can u read?

 

[JaCrispy]

17 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

No.

 

Putin 'propaganda' is all they got.

 

 

 

I know, that’s why I ask…😉

 

They immediately have nothing left to contribute once you force them to think beyond the mainstream media talking points- like robots malfunctioning when they can’t compute the data being inputted…

 

It’s quite illuminating, actually, as well as amusing…😉

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by JaCrispy

[Joe Ferguson forever]

and this

"SpaceX, through private donations and under a separate contract with a U.S. foreign aid agency, has been providing Ukrainians and the country's military with Starlink internet service, a fast-growing network of more than 4,000 satellites in low Earth orbit, since the beginning of the war in 2022."

US foreign Aid agency and private donations.  Hmmm...CIA?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said:

It's this

"The Pentagon contract is a boon for SpaceX after Musk, the company's CEO, said in October it could not afford to indefinitely fund Starlink in Ukraine, an effort he said cost $20 million a month to maintain."

The US is now funding the $20 mil a month or some amount not announced as described further in the article due to the sensitive nature of the deal.  Can u read?

 

your writing is more difficult than usual to decipher, granted. But it sounds you are arguing Musk is an asset for the nation of Ukraine- so what’s the issue? 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

your writing is more difficult than usual to decipher, granted. But it sounds you are arguing Musk is an asset for the nation of Ukraine- so what’s the issue? 

Well the first issue is that you wrongly said there was no military contract.  The next is that he squelched a potentially devastating drone attack on Russia by shutting down starling.  Are you being opaque for fun or just because your can't read?

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

your writing is more difficult than usual to decipher, granted. But it sounds you are arguing Musk is an asset for the nation of Ukraine- so what’s the issue? 

Not my writing.  Reuters did a fine job you just ignored it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

and this

"SpaceX, through private donations and under a separate contract with a U.S. foreign aid agency, has been providing Ukrainians and the country's military with Starlink internet service, a fast-growing network of more than 4,000 satellites in low Earth orbit, since the beginning of the war in 2022."

US foreign Aid agency and private donations.  Hmmm...CIA?

Internet service- not infrastructure for a drone strike. In your pee test labatory technician world, I can understand how far over your head this is. I don’t hope to educate you, this is real high tech science stuff. But rest assured it’s more complicated than your YouTube vegan influencer posts you probably get into. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I know, that’s why I ask…😉

 

They immediately have nothing left to contribute once you force them to think beyond the mainstream media talking points- like robots malfunctioning when they can’t compute the data being inputted…

 

It’s quite illuminating, actually, as well as amusing…😉

 

 

Yes, link some relevant info to support your point.  Cuz I have and the righties like you ignore it.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Yes, link some relevant info to support your point.  Cuz I have a the righties like you ignore it.

You do have a the righties - I’m sure of it

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Internet service- not infrastructure for a drone strike. In your pee test labatory technician world, I can understand how far over your head this is. I don’t hope to educate you, this is real high tech science stuff. But rest assured it’s more complicated than your YouTube vegan influencer posts you probably get into. 

"The country's military"...but show what a jackass you are.

 

The second link discusses a new military contract with the PENTAGON

 

The first may well have been with the CIA.  your guess is as good as mine on who the "private donors" were...

 

I don't hope to educate you either.  You have your mind made up and your set narrative and no actual news or facts will change that.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said:

"The country's military"...but show what a jackass you are.

 

The second link discusses a new military contract with the PENTAGON

So when I urinate in that cup, do you have to read the results and transcribe them into the portal, or does the help do that? 
 

starlink has helped Ukraine. Your agenda to suggest otherwise is brainwashed nonsense you ***** nincompoop. Stop being such a manipulatable dummy 

5 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

"The country's military"...but show what a jackass you are.

 

The second link discusses a new military contract with the PENTAGON

 

The first may well have been with the CIA.  your guess is as good as mine on who the "private donors" were...

Ukraine had a pentagon????? 🤦‍♂️ 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So when I urinate in that cup, do you have to read the results and transcribe them into the portal, or does the help do that? 
 

starlink has helped Ukraine. Your agenda to suggest otherwise is brainwashed nonsense you ***** nincompoop. Stop being such a manipulatable dummy 

So what about the contracts?  YOU WERE WRONG.  Just like the righties saying they were absolutely certain trump couldn't fire the fed chair.  So why should we believe anything you write?  Slither back under the rocks...

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

So what about the contracts?  YOU WERE WRONG.  Just like the righties saying they were absolutely certain trump couldn't fire the fed chair.  So why should we believe anything you write?  Slither back under the rocks...

 

 

You’re so over your head. You’d never believe anything because you’re a lab tech pretending to be a doctor with half baked understanding of the world. You’ve been so exposed. My pushback was the Musk anti Ukraine narrative- which was so obviously garbage… and it took a couple swipes to defeat instead of 1. So that’s progress for you. Good job. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ukraine had a pentagon????? 🤦‍♂️ 

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” 

― Jean-Paul Sartre

 

Insert MAGA for antisemite.  Your parents must be so proud...

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

11 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

You’re so over your head. You’d never believe anything because you’re a lab tech pretending to be a doctor with half baked understanding of the world. You’ve been so exposed. My pushback was the Musk anti Ukraine narrative- which was so obviously garbage… and it took a couple swipes to defeat instead of 1.

lying again.  I practiced for over 30 years.   Well over 100k patient encounters. Still boarded. License has lapsed because I don't want to pay for something I have no plan on using but it wouldn't take long to get licensed in literally any state.  Could go back to work anywhere in the US or many other countries tomorrow.  Your pushback was that there were no military contracts.  But keep being dishonest.  It's clearly your nature.