NoSaint Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 15 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: First of all, why should I tell you why no teams haven't signed Araiza to this point? I've yet to make any claims that any team should or will, I've only questioned your assertions. I could make any number of guesses as to why nobody has signed him yet, but it would all be baseless speculation. On the other hand I will be surprised if some team doesn't bring him in before next season based solely on his football resume. Im going with no race in May without much in the way of team activities or learning of the playbook for a punter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He's been cleared. What's the optics problem now? 2 guys were taken 2 rounds ahead of him because 2 teams thought they were a better pick at Punter. Those picks paid off: Camarda is an excellent Punter last year--#5 in yards per. Stout had 46 yards per and put nearly 46% inside the 20---ranked 5th in the league. Again, there is still the civil trial. What is the other reason? That he’s not good enough? The kid boomed an 82 yard punt in preseason end showed that he could hold for kicks. Way too early to make that pronouncement. And it’s not like the league is chock-full of great punters and most teams keep two of them in preseason. He will get his chance when the civil trial is settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Doc said: Again, there is still the civil trial. What is the other reason? That he’s not good enough? The kid boomed an 82 yard punt in preseason end showed that he could hold for kicks. Way too early to make that pronouncement. And it’s not like the league is chock-full of great punters and most teams keep two of them in preseason. He will get his chance when the civil trial is settled. Teams think he might be found liable? How is that possible if he's cleared? The recent news detailing that should put any team at ease right now, no? Who knows if he's good enough, one punt not withstanding. I was making the point that the guys picked ahead of him have paid off. Most teams bring in a second punter to camp? For what? Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, NoSaint said: there’s a terribly narrow needle to thread, and I think a true press team would use third parties to play up “punter fully cleared of false accusations” to create some subconscious familiarity with the story line without him throwing his face all over interviews. “didn’t that kicker we signed have that thing?!? What was the accusation? I don’t recall the details but I know I heard it was made up” becomes just the right level of hazy water under the bridge That and a statement saying he’s only interested in returning to football. Unfortunately, that may still not be enough because his situation will be used by grifters on both political sides of the aisle to push their culture war agenda. Thus amplifying his name and potential NFL teams determining he’s not worth it. Again, I do feel bad for him. Edited May 20, 2023 by Doc Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 He’ll get a shot but probably not when this is all over the news and social media. Probably get a tryout around camp time or maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: That and a statement saying he’s only interested in returning to football. Unfortunately, that may still not be enough because his situation will be used by grifters on both political sides of the aisle to push their culture war agenda. Thus amplifying his name and potential NFL teams determining he’s not worth it. Again, I do feel bad for him. There's the CFL, XFL. Hey kids, don't do what Matt did. Chose your friends wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: There's the CFL, XFL. Hey kids, don't do what Matt did. Chose your friends wisely. Possibly but even in those leagues owners are terrified of anything hurting their bottom line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Possibly but even in those leagues owners are terrified of anything hurting their bottom line. MA bought his ticket: Yeah... He really put himself in an unfortunate situation. Like I said... Learning experience for others. Not the end of the world. Punting at pro level is a high earning career. Welcome to being a regular worker Matt... Edited May 20, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Teams think he might be found liable? How is that possible if he's cleared? The recent news detailing that should put any team at ease right now, no? Who knows if he's good enough, one punt not withstanding. I was making the point that the guys picked ahead of him have paid off. Most teams bring in a second punter to camp? For what? Link? Yeah, the guys picked ahead of him have paid off because they didn’t have a false rape accusation leveled against them. What is so hard about to understand about this? And teams routinely have 2 punters and kickers in for training camp to reduce the kicking load on just one player. Araiza has shown enough to warrant bringing him in for a tryout versus the JAGs that keeps circulating around the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 25 minutes ago, Doc said: Yeah, the guys picked ahead of him have paid off because they didn’t have a false rape accusation leveled against them. What is so hard about to understand about this? And teams routinely have 2 punters and kickers in for training camp to reduce the kicking load on just one player. Araiza has shown enough to warrant bringing him in for a tryout versus the JAGs that keeps circulating around the league. They are good punters because no one said they raped them? That made them get those numbers? lol ok is there a lot of wear and tear on the primary Punter in training camp? I’ve not heard that. I would think they are the least load stressed players in the dorm… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Teams think he might be found liable? How is that possible if he's cleared? The recent news detailing that should put any team at ease right now, no? You understand the difference between a DA's decision to not press charges, and a civil suit, yes? The one has a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the other "more likely than not". I was empaneled for jury selection for a civil suit and the lawyer for the plaintiff made a huge deal out of "a hair's difference" being the standard. The civil trial is scheduled for October, the young woman's lawyer has made a huge deal out of the DA being selective in what evidence was discussed in their meeting - as is appropriate, given that the purpose is for the DA to explain why there is "reasonable doubt" in the evidence. He's made a point that they won't "be intimidated into dropping their case", and Araiza has made a point that he isn't interested in settling, even for a relatively minor amount of money. Why wouldn't teams be leary of signing a rookie punter who is scheduled to have the potentially huge distraction (and PR problem) of a civil trial start 1/3 of the way through the season? 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Most teams bring in a second punter to camp? For what? Link? I don't think it's "most", but there were several good veteran punters available after roster cutdowns last season because 3 or 4 teams had 2 punters in camp. 1 hour ago, Doc said: And teams routinely have 2 punters and kickers in for training camp to reduce the kicking load on just one player. Really? Who did the Bills have in prior to last year's preseason? I know they had Araiza and Haack in camp in 2022, but who besides Haack did they have in 2021? Who did they have besides Bojo in 2019 and 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Beck Water said: You understand the difference between a DA's decision to not press charges, and a civil suit, yes? The one has a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the other "more likely than not". I was empaneled for jury selection for a civil suit and the lawyer for the plaintiff made a huge deal out of "a hair's difference" being the standard. The civil trial is scheduled for October, the young woman's lawyer has made a huge deal out of the DA being selective in what evidence was discussed in their meeting - as is appropriate, given that the purpose is for the DA to explain why there is "reasonable doubt" in the evidence. He's made a point that they won't "be intimidated into dropping their case", and Araiza has made a point that he isn't interested in settling, even for a relatively minor amount of money. Why wouldn't teams be leary of signing a rookie punter who is scheduled to have the potentially huge distraction (and PR problem) of a civil trial start 1/3 of the way through the season? I don't think it's "most", but there were several good veteran punters available after roster cutdowns last season because 3 or 4 teams had 2 punters in camp. Really? Who did the Bills have in prior to last year's preseason? I know they had Araiza and Haack in camp in 2022, but who besides Haack did they have in 2021? Who did they have besides Bojo in 2019 and 2020? yes what is alleged is a crime. it's now a tort because the DA, after what they felt was an exhaustive investigation, found no evidence of such. What might the plaintiff's lawyer have that would prove a crime and why would he not have produced it before now? Wouldn't a criminal charge make his civil case a lot more solid? Why was he withholding "the evidence"? also, I guess a team would bring in another Punter to camp if their current Punter stinks, not for some sort of work load issue, or whatever doc was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: They are good punters because no one said they raped them? That made them get those numbers? lol ok is there a lot of wear and tear on the primary Punter in training camp? I’ve not heard that. I would think they are the least load stressed players in the dorm… OK, I guess it is hard to grasp for some. Put another way, how do you know how Araiza would have done when he didn’t even play last year because of the allegations? He might’ve been even better than both of them. He might’ve been just as good. Or he might have been just a little worse, which is fine since he was drafted a round later. The point is we won’t know until he actually plays. Edited May 21, 2023 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: yes what is alleged is a crime. it's now a tort because the DA, after what they felt was an exhaustive investigation, found no evidence of such. What might the plaintiff's lawyer have that would prove a crime and why would he not have produced it before now? Wouldn't a criminal charge make his civil case a lot more solid? Why was he withholding "the evidence"? also, I guess a team would bring in another Punter to camp if their current Punter stinks, not for some sort of work load issue, or whatever doc was getting at. You’ll have to ask Gilleon what his strategy is. My guess is that he’s going to claim the rape happened after the video taped encounters were done, and try and play on the heartstrings of the jury by showing her piercings being ripped out, marks on her body and her tearful testimony. He’ll probably also try to say that just because arise it wasn’t on tape and a witness saw him leave, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah, the guys picked ahead of him have paid off because they didn’t have a false rape accusation leveled against them. What is so hard about to understand about this? And teams routinely have 2 punters and kickers in for training camp to reduce the kicking load on just one player. Araiza has shown enough to warrant bringing him in for a tryout versus the JAGs that keeps circulating around the league. that first part has always wondered me - why was the “punt god” the 3rd punter drafted? Is it because all these teams (except the Bills apparently) knew about the rape allegations prior to draft day or were there other reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: that first part has always wondered me - why was the “punt god” the 3rd punter drafted? Is it because all these teams (except the Bills apparently) knew about the rape allegations prior to draft day or were there other reasons? No idea. Could have been the allegations and/or that he wasn’t a proven holder for kicks and/or he wasn’t a polished product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Beck Water said: You understand the difference between a DA's decision to not press charges, and a civil suit, yes? The one has a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the other "more likely than not". I was empaneled for jury selection for a civil suit and the lawyer for the plaintiff made a huge deal out of "a hair's difference" being the standard. The civil trial is scheduled for October, the young woman's lawyer has made a huge deal out of the DA being selective in what evidence was discussed in their meeting - as is appropriate, given that the purpose is for the DA to explain why there is "reasonable doubt" in the evidence. He's made a point that they won't "be intimidated into dropping their case", and Araiza has made a point that he isn't interested in settling, even for a relatively minor amount of money. Why wouldn't teams be leary of signing a rookie punter who is scheduled to have the potentially huge distraction (and PR problem) of a civil trial start 1/3 of the way through the season? I don't think it's "most", but there were several good veteran punters available after roster cutdowns last season because 3 or 4 teams had 2 punters in camp. Really? Who did the Bills have in prior to last year's preseason? I know they had Araiza and Haack in camp in 2022, but who besides Haack did they have in 2021? Who did they have besides Bojo in 2019 and 2020? To be fair most teams do probably have two punters or 2 kickers from mini to TC… Like 3 total Especially alternating kickoff duty When we had bojo was it was Corey Carter in camp with him Edited May 21, 2023 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, Doc said: OK, I guess it is hard to grasp for some. Put another way, how do you know how Araiza would have done when he didn’t even play last year because of the allegations? He might’ve been even better than both of them. He might’ve been just as good. Or he might have been just a little worse, which is fine since he was drafted a round later. The point is we won’t know until he actually plays. no team thought he was the best Punter in the draft. 46 minutes ago, Doc said: You’ll have to ask Gilleon what his strategy is. My guess is that he’s going to claim the rape happened after the video taped encounters were done, and try and play on the heartstrings of the jury by showing her piercings being ripped out, marks on her body and her tearful testimony. He’ll probably also try to say that just because arise it wasn’t on tape and a witness saw him leave, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. what would he produce that would convince the jury that a preponderance of evidence proves he raped her? Simply saying “he raped her after the video” won’t work doc. Just now, Buffalo716 said: To be fair most teams do probably have two punters in camp You don’t want his leg to get overworked When we had bojo was it was Corey Carter in camp with him how does a Punter get overworked in training camp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: no team thought he was the best Punter in the draft. what would he produce that would convince the jury that a preponderance of evidence proves he raped her? Simply saying “he raped her after the video” won’t work doc. how does a Punter get overworked in training camp? Every single sport that uses a limb… It’s a rule of thumb not to overdo it Baseball pitchers can’t throw 24/7… Quarterbacks always have routines when they’re throwing and not throwing And place kickers can’t be kicking 300 field goals day For weeks… Same with punters It takes a little stress off of your leg splitting reps with a camp leg Edited May 21, 2023 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Every single sport that uses a limb… It’s a rule of thumb not to overdo it Baseball pitchers can’t throw 24/7… Quarterbacks always have routines when they’re throwing and not throwing And place kickers can’t be kicking 300 field goals day For five weeks straight… Same with punters It takes a little stress off of your leg splitting reps with a camp leg it’s camp—1 dozen practices Edited May 21, 2023 by Mr. WEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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