Buffalo716 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: it’s camp. The bills have certainly had multiple punters in camp the last couple years There was no competition between Corey Carter and Bojo Sometimes you do want multiple fresh legs… You act like kickers and punters can’t get injured 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: it’s camp—1 dozen practices And for two weeks sometimes you want multiple legs… Or in the time between mini camp and training camp You get 90+ roster spots It wasn’t too long ago the bills kept a kick off specialist.. Because they didn’t want Hauschka’s leg double dipping on kick off duty It was all about saving Hauschka‘s leg 47 kickers are on nfl rosters rn…and 42 punters Edited May 21, 2023 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: no team thought he was the best Punter in the draft. So? It doesn’t mean he couldn’t turn out to be. 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: what would he produce that would convince the jury that a preponderance of evidence proves he raped her? Simply saying “he raped her after the video” won’t work doc. Again you’ll have to ask Gilleon. He must think he has an ace up his sleeve considering he hasn’t withdrawn the civil suit. Or more likely he’s an idiot who doesn’t know when to quit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: no team thought he was the best Punter in the draft. Is it possible that there was a team(s) that thought he was the best punter in the draft but either didn't want to expend a draft pick on a punter or felt their punter was better than the best punter in the draft? Seems to me that a more accurate statement would be along the lines that at least two teams did not think he was the best punter in the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said: that first part has always wondered me - why was the “punt god” the 3rd punter drafted? Is it because all these teams (except the Bills apparently) knew about the rape allegations prior to draft day or were there other reasons? Coming out, he had a slow get off time and was a question mark as a holder and the two punters taken before him were much more polished. But there is simply no ignoring his powerful leg, so he was worth the investment, regardless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said: that first part has always wondered me - why was the “punt god” the 3rd punter drafted? Is it because all these teams (except the Bills apparently) knew about the rape allegations prior to draft day or were there other reasons? The big concern with Araiza is he has a heck of a leg but has trouble with control as he struggled in college with the pooch punt as most of the time he tried to pin a team inside the 20 the ball went into the end zone for a touchback most of the time. The two punters taken ahead of him were better in that area. I had him as my number two punter behind Stout before the draft but was thrilled to get him in the sixth. 6 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah, the guys picked ahead of him have paid off because they didn’t have a false rape accusation leveled against them. What is so hard about to understand about this? And teams routinely have 2 punters and kickers in for training camp to reduce the kicking load on just one player. Araiza has shown enough to warrant bringing him in for a tryout versus the JAGs that keeps circulating around the league. The problem with even bringing him in for a competition imo is that team will have outside public pressure on that team for him to win the job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Doc Brown said: That and a statement saying he’s only interested in returning to football. Unfortunately, that may still not be enough because his situation will be used by grifters on both political sides of the aisle to push their culture war agenda. Thus amplifying his name and potential NFL teams determining he’s not worth it. Again, I do feel bad for him. I don't think "grifters on both political sides of the aisle" are a problem for teams who might be interested in Araiza. I think an actual pending civil suit scheduled to occur mid season is a problem for teams who might be interested in Araiza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: what is alleged is a crime. it's now a tort because the DA, after what they felt was an exhaustive investigation, found no evidence of such. What might the plaintiff's lawyer have that would prove a crime and why would he not have produced it before now? Wouldn't a criminal charge make his civil case a lot more solid? Why was he withholding "the evidence"? I said nothing about evidence the plaintiff's lawyer has But said lawyer (who IMO is a piece of work) pointed out correctly that the DA, and the released interview, only touched on a portion of the evidence. Yes, a criminal charge would make a civil case more solid, but the absence of a criminal charge doesn't mean absence of evidence that would support a civil verdict. Again, I'm not saying there is such evidence, I'm not saying the civil suit has merit, I'm just saying being cleared of a possible criminal charge does not mean Araiza's legal journey is over, as long as a civil suit is still pending. Edited May 21, 2023 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Beck Water said: I don't think "grifters on both political sides of the aisle" are a problem for teams who might be interested in Araiza. I think an actual pending civil suit scheduled to occur mid season is a problem for teams who might be interested in Araiza. The thing is that no matter the outcome the civil suit the NFL wouldn't be able to punish him anyways since it happened before the draft. I'm thinking more long term as this case is ripe for the current political blue state/red state discourse that will only make him more polarizing reducing the likelihood of someone signing him. That's why I think he should lay low as possible and especially not give interviews with people like Tomi Lahren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 6 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: Is it possible that there was a team(s) that thought he was the best punter in the draft but either didn't want to expend a draft pick on a punter or felt their punter was better than the best punter in the draft? Seems to me that a more accurate statement would be along the lines that at least two teams did not think he was the best punter in the draft. Well, sure, if you want to be like…..accurate and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: The bills have certainly had multiple punters in camp the last couple years There was no competition between Corey Carter and Bojo Sometimes you do want multiple fresh legs… You act like kickers and punters can’t get injured And for two weeks sometimes you want multiple legs… Or in the time between mini camp and training camp You get 90+ roster spots It wasn’t too long ago the bills kept a kick off specialist.. Because they didn’t want Hauschka’s leg double dipping on kick off duty It was all about saving Hauschka‘s leg 47 kickers are on nfl rosters rn…and 42 punters Hauschka wasn't a punter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Doc said: So? It doesn’t mean he couldn’t turn out to be. Again you’ll have to ask Gilleon. He must think he has an ace up his sleeve considering he hasn’t withdrawn the civil suit. Or more likely he’s an idiot who doesn’t know when to quit. Why would he have held damning evidence "up his sleeve" instead of giving it to the DA? that makes zero sense. You were convinced he was innocent immediately doc--way before the recent DA released evidence. Why would a jury think otherwise. 9 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: Is it possible that there was a team(s) that thought he was the best punter in the draft but either didn't want to expend a draft pick on a punter or felt their punter was better than the best punter in the draft? Seems to me that a more accurate statement would be along the lines that at least two teams did not think he was the best punter in the draft. Yes teams that wanted to upgrade at punter 7 hours ago, Beck Water said: I said nothing about evidence the plaintiff's lawyer has But said lawyer (who IMO is a piece of work) pointed out correctly that the DA, and the released interview, only touched on a portion of the evidence. Yes, a criminal charge would make a civil case more solid, but the absence of a criminal charge doesn't mean absence of evidence that would support a civil verdict. Again, I'm not saying there is such evidence, I'm not saying the civil suit has merit, I'm just saying being cleared of a possible criminal charge does not mean Araiza's legal journey is over, as long as a civil suit is still pending. The legal journey continues as long as neither side wishes to settle, of course. Civil or criminal, the jury will be asked to decide whether he raped her. They won't really be splitting the hair of "beyond a reasonable doubt" vs "by the preponderance of evidence". If the plaintiff had such evidence that would convince a jury "yeah, I think he did it", he would have produced it already--if only to influence the potential jury pool by this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The thing is that no matter the outcome the civil suit the NFL wouldn't be able to punish him anyways since it happened before the draft. I'm thinking more long term as this case is ripe for the current political blue state/red state discourse that will only make him more polarizing reducing the likelihood of someone signing him. That's why I think he should lay low as possible and especially not give interviews with people like Tomi Lahren. To be clear I’m of the opinion that people have been jumping to too many conclusions based on press reports for a long time now. It started right away, hit a crescendo when the hack named Tim Graham tried to corner Beane with a “direct quote” from Araiza that was nothing of the sort and continues now. I’ve read many places that Araiza has been exonerated by the DA but that is simply not true. The DA said there will not be charges unless something new comes to light. The details of the meeting reported beyond that do not come from the DA, they come from defendant’s lawyers and a little from the plaintiff’s lawyer. We need to have higher analytical standards than Tim Graham which should be really easy. With that said Matt Araiza should decide whether or not he should lay low and if not, he should decide with whom he chooses to interview. The NFL bending over to what it perceives as red/blue or whatever other metric it is measured against should have no bearing on that. He will never be able to control it. And some people don’t like Tomi Lahren so she should be shunned too? Maybe he should go on with Samantha Guthrie so she can treat him like she did that 15 year old kid she told “standing there” was aggressive. This walking on eggshells to appease the whimsical perceptions about people who generate mob mentality is unhealthy. He should do what he thinks is right. It’s called America, not Afraidica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Why would he have held damning evidence "up his sleeve" instead of giving it to the DA? that makes zero sense. You were convinced he was innocent immediately doc--way before the recent DA released evidence. Why would a jury think otherwise. Maybe he's hoping there are jurors like you who believed he was guilty before any evidence came out, and who still may have doubt? Edited May 22, 2023 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Doc said: Maybe he's hoping there are jurors like you who believed he was guilty before any evidence came out, and who still may have doubt? that was before he was “cleared” doc. Doesn’t that change everything? What’s left for doubt? why are you suddenly so shaky about the thought of him before a jury. Yiu had them acquitting him months ago. This is very strange… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: that was before he was “cleared” doc. Doesn’t that change everything? What’s left for doubt? why are you suddenly so shaky about the thought of him before a jury. Yiu had them acquitting him months ago. This is very strange… "Suddenly shaky?" LOL! I've been rock steady with my prediction that he would be exonerated ever since I heard she claimed to have told him she was 17. I just didn't know how much evidence there would be against her, to probably even sink her case against the other guys. No WEO, you're the only one who's shaky. No doubt you're holding out hope there's something against him that Gilleon has. But his case is a loser mostly because his client is one. He just has to keep up the charade. How long do you? Edited May 22, 2023 by Doc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Doc said: "Suddenly shaky?" LOL! I've been rock steady with my prediction that he would be exonerated ever since I heard she claimed to have told him she was 17. I just didn't know how much evidence there would be against her, to probably even sink her case against the other guys. No WEO, you're the only one who's shaky. No doubt you're holding out hope there's something against him that Gilleon has. But his case is a loser mostly because his client is one. No I’m confident the plaintiffs lawyer doesn’t have anything the DA didn’t have, which is why I think if a team was interested, they should/would bring him in. You on the other hand clearly think he could lose a civil trial. Therefore your confidence in this matter is lower than mine in that regard. So, you’re “shaky” at this point. No other way to say it. I don’t care if he gets signed or not, loses a case or not. He’s a Punter.. Most are a dime a dozen. The most easily replaced position in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: No I’m confident the plaintiffs lawyer doesn’t have anything the DA didn’t have, which is why I think if a team was interested, they should/would bring him in. You on the other hand clearly think he could lose a civil trial. Therefore your confidence in this matter is lower than mine in that regard. So, you’re “shaky” at this point. No other way to say it. I don’t care if he gets signed or not, loses a case or not. He’s a Punter.. Most are a dime a dozen. The most easily replaced position in the NFL. You asked me why he hasn't been signed and the only explanation I could give was because the civil trial is still ongoing and maybe a team/teams think something could come out there. I have no doubt he's free and clear. And yes, he's just a punter. But last time I checked, all 32 teams use one and there aren't 32 good ones in the NFL, much less 50+ including camp legs, and he showed tons of promise last pre-season. Edited May 22, 2023 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Doc said: You asked me why he hasn't been signed and the only explanation I could give was because the civil trial is still ongoing and maybe a team/teams think something could come out there. I have no doubt he's free and clear. And yes, he's just a punter. But last time I checked, all 32 teams use one and there aren't 32 good ones in the NFL, much less 50+ including camp legs, and he showed tons of promise last pre-season. Why wouldn't they have the same confidence as you then? What "could come out there"? And in your opinion, a single punt = "tons of promise"? That's heavy lifting doc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Why wouldn't they have the same confidence as you then? What "could come out there"? And in your opinion, a single punt = "tons of promise"? That's heavy lifting doc... Beats "he was the 3rd punter taken so he sucks" as the reason why he's not signed. Talk about heavy lifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Doc said: Beats "he was the 3rd punter taken so he sucks" as the reason why he's not signed. Talk about heavy lifting. I didn’t say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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