Pokebball Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: why don't you debate the point? Were there victims of his fraud? Not criminally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Not criminally Not yet. duh, this is a $250 mil civil case that could and most likely will sink his biz. Do you think that's fair given his civil crimes? didn't you want the Enron frauds to be punished? Edited September 27, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 Just now, Pokebball said: Not criminally Fraud isn't a criminal act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Fraud isn't a criminal act? Yes it is 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: Yes it is Ergo, trump is a criminal....see how this logic thing works? Edited September 27, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 I've gotta admit I don't really see any damages in the Trump Inflated Real Estate civil suit. I guess it's a per se violation of NYS law to do this (I haven't researched it), but typically these civil enforcement actions will be brought when some aggrieved party complains to the AG. Something like "I provided financing to the Trump Organization based on their fraudulent valuations, and then they defaulted and I lost my shirt." It would be clearer if it was the OTHER way around, valuing the property too low for tax purposes, and fairly for investor purposes. That way the damage is to the taxpayer, and it's a clear tax fraud case. So this is weird, and I have to conclude that it is obviously a civil prosecution motivated by political reasons. Now that doesn't mean it's not "fair" in a global sense. Life isn't fair, and if you go around violating accepted business practices, well, you've got it coming. I'm just pointing out that it's an unusual case. (I'll also agree that the Mar-a-Lago valuation thing is far from clear. Other things like overstating the square footage of Trump's condo? That's easy to prove) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said: Ergo, trump is a criminal.... I'm not defending Trump. I've never supported him. That said, the Dems have gone waaaay overboard with their TDS. Weaponizing govt agencies and branches against him is bananananana republics shyt 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 3 hours ago, Kemp said: Conservatives are a very dwindling herd in America. The conservatives I know shouldn’t support Trump. He’s a populist. I think they’re very confused right now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: I'm not defending Trump. I've never supported him. That said, the Dems have gone waaaay overboard with their TDS. Weaponizing govt agencies and branches against him is bananananana republics shyt I hope more of whatever is left of the real R party or are part of the redeemable MAGA base see the logic in abandoning him... 4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: The conservatives I know shouldn’t support Trump. He’s a populist. I think they’re very confused right now. Very few of the classically defined conservatives I know do...I read that Peter Theil doesn't anymore. Edited September 27, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I hope more of whatever is left of the real R party or are part of the redeemable MAGA base see the logic in abandoning him... Very few of the classically defined conservatives I know do...I read that Peter Theil doesn't anymore. Agree totally. There are plenty of Rs left. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 https://news.yahoo.com/republican-donors-now-eye-haley-090355478.html I hope she does well tonight. I don't trust her fully but she seems better than the other R contenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: these civil enforcement actions will be brought when some aggrieved party complains to the AG. Something like "I provided financing to the Trump Organization based on their fraudulent valuations, and then they defaulted and I lost my shirt." NFL? as he had to prove his wealth to make a bid on the bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: So who did he defraud? I have not yet had a chance to go through the entire ruling, but from what I've read so far, NYS allows for the attorney general to sue on behalf of the people of the State of New York when someone "engage[s] in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstate[s] persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting, or transaction of business" (Page 3) So even if the banks being defrauded weren't US banks (which I'm not sure if he managed to find a US bank that lend to him or not), the NY AG can go after a business in New York that is engaged in fraud. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 No jury, no due process just a very partisan judge coupled with a partisan DA. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Chris farley said: No jury, no due process just a very partisan judge coupled with a partisan DA. I believe the trial starts Monday. I suppose if the jury finds he's not culpable they can give 0 damages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: I've gotta admit I don't really see any damages in the Trump Inflated Real Estate civil suit. I guess it's a per se violation of NYS law to do this (I haven't researched it), but typically these civil enforcement actions will be brought when some aggrieved party complains to the AG. Something like "I provided financing to the Trump Organization based on their fraudulent valuations, and then they defaulted and I lost my shirt." It would be clearer if it was the OTHER way around, valuing the property too low for tax purposes, and fairly for investor purposes. That way the damage is to the taxpayer, and it's a clear tax fraud case. So this is weird, and I have to conclude that it is obviously a civil prosecution motivated by political reasons. Now that doesn't mean it's not "fair" in a global sense. Life isn't fair, and if you go around violating accepted business practices, well, you've got it coming. I'm just pointing out that it's an unusual case. (I'll also agree that the Mar-a-Lago valuation thing is far from clear. Other things like overstating the square footage of Trump's condo? That's easy to prove) See, again, there you go. The govt is supposed to wear the white hat Frank, and in many cases that’s not what happens. This is classic NYS political maneuvering, and one would argue playing around the edges is what passes for “…accepted business practices…” in that venue. In other words, people get paid to push things through, people look the other way, and that’s just NY. Consider the most recent long line of AGs and “Where are they now?”’ Cuomo Schneiderman Spitzer It’s ok to state you’re ok with this sort of politicking when you don’t like the defendant, but egregious if you do. ⚖️ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I believe the trial starts Monday. I suppose if the jury finds he's not culpable they can give 0 damages. The judge has already found the Trump Organization culpable, but damages remain at issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: See, again, there you go. The govt is supposed to wear the white hat Frank, and in many cases that’s not what happens. This is classic NYS political maneuvering, and one would argue playing around the edges is what passes for “…accepted business practices…” in that venue. In other words, people get paid to push things through, people look the other way, and that’s just NY. Consider the most recent long line of AGs and “Where are they now?”’ Cuomo Schneiderman Spitzer It’s ok to state you’re ok with this sort of politicking when you don’t like the defendant, but egregious if you do. ⚖️ At some point, you go after a scum bag. Lincoln had no legal right to free the slaves, but he did anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I hope more of whatever is left of the real R party or are part of the redeemable MAGA base see the logic in abandoning him... Very few of the classically defined conservatives I know do...I read that Peter Theil doesn't anymore. You have a lot of nerve calling out Trump while your brain dead potato brain is the biggest crook in government today. You need to clean out your own party before you start criticizing other parties. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 41 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: See, again, there you go. The govt is supposed to wear the white hat Frank, and in many cases that’s not what happens. This is classic NYS political maneuvering, and one would argue playing around the edges is what passes for “…accepted business practices…” in that venue. In other words, people get paid to push things through, people look the other way, and that’s just NY. Consider the most recent long line of AGs and “Where are they now?”’ Cuomo Schneiderman Spitzer It’s ok to state you’re ok with this sort of politicking when you don’t like the defendant, but egregious if you do. ⚖️ Hoax. I respect the rule of law. Maybe you don’t, which is sad. New York City is the financial capital of the world. We can’t let things like this manipulation of asset values go unchecked. That kind of lawlessness would threaten our status in the financial world. 2 minutes ago, Westside said: You have a lot of nerve calling out Trump while your brain dead potato brain is the biggest crook in government today. You need to clean out your own party before you start criticizing other parties. Hoax. 1 hour ago, Chris farley said: No jury, no due process just a very partisan judge coupled with a partisan DA. Lots of hoaxes here. More than usual, even for you. Let’s see what happens on appeal. 4 minutes ago, Westside said: You have a lot of nerve calling out Trump while your brain dead potato brain is the biggest crook in government today. You need to clean out your own party before you start criticizing other parties. Speaking of dead potato brains, who is it again who is worried that Biden will lead us into World War II? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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