WRs and OL/OG

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I'm out on tiny wide receivers who really aren't that fast to begin with, ie McKenzie, Marquez Stevenson. No thanks. This Tank dude looks like Calvin Austin to me. Got hurt did nothing. Dude's legs look like twigs. 

 

Find guys with elite ball skills, George Pickens guys, Drake London guys. Guys who are going to catch the football and make contested catches in traffic. That's what Josh needs. Guys who can win vertically down the field and go and get the thing. 

 

I know it's easier said than done, but enough with the ridiculous water bugs. Unless we are talking Tyreek Hill type build, strength and speed, these little guys don't get it done when it matters. 

Mostly agree, but Devonta Smith is fricking good. And he only ran a 4.48. 

24 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

AT Perry and Iosivas interest me the most. 
I really hope we double dip because there is good receiving option in the draft that we need. 
 

Hyatt needs to be a bill yesterday. Perfect for what Allen likes to do. 

I’m fairly certain after the combine Hyatt and Rice will prove the justifications. Everything I’ve watched from them screams NFL ready WR even with the limitations. Hyatt torches NFL ready DBs in the best conference. Everyone was saying the same exact thing about Metcalf and look what happened. 
Guards are deep this year, a lot of good options to pick up in rounds 2-3. Avila should be there and is one of the best pass blockers.

Agreed. At 27, you're not going to get a fully clean player, so I'd bet on a guy with the highest upside. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Mostly agree, but Devonta Smith is fricking good. And he only ran a 4.48. 

 

Agreed. He has elite ball skills, route running etc, that's why he was a first round pick. So guys like him are definitely the exception for me. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Getting WR in the draft is going to be key....we need guys on rookie deals at positions of high value.  The way the WR salaries exploded last year along with the high volumes of talented WR's being output from College makes WR a high value position to draft IMO.

[LEBills]

13 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

No way, Thornton wasn’t making the kind of plays Hyatt was against top CBs S in the nation. This guy eats cushions like nobody’s business. Watch this and tell me he is limited. He does exactly what we need. Outside receiver that reliably gets open against top tier talent. 
 

 

Yea I just don’t see it. Most of his plays he is getting a free release and then outrunning people. You need more to be a big time receiver in the NFL, like Metcalf is someone you mentioned who is mostly slants and 9s but he is physical enough to punish players that get hands on him trying to disrupt his route. Maybe Hyatt can develop into it but it’s mostly projection at this point.
 

 I still think there can be a valuable role for him in an offense but I don’t see a lot that projects to superstar. 

[Milanos Milano]

When going back to 2010 college stats. The best NFL predictor for WR seems to be a WR that produces 1,000 yards+ and 10+ TDs that come from a power conference (SEC, Big12, Pac10, Big10, ACC) had the best careers. In particular the SEC and Big12. A SEC WR that puts up great numbers almost always was a good pro. 
 

Hyatt checks that Box. Go look at all the past numbers and it makes sense. I will upload later. 
 

An outlier seems to be the SMU program. A few WRs came from there and if they had great numbers they generally are a good pro. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[Billz4ever]

11 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Seeming how this is our biggest needs, give me your list of prospects you would like the Bills to draft. Here are some of my picks that I like. 

 

 

Jordan Addison  6’ 0”  174lbs     4.51 

 

Zay Flowers    5’ 10”    172lbs       4.37 

 

Jalin Hyatt    6’ 0”     185lbs        4.31 

 

Rashee Rice  6’ 2”     203lbs       4.36 

 

Nathaniel Dell   5’ 10”   165lbs     4.43 

 

 

My 3 personal favorites are Flowers, Hyatt and Rice. I hope we can double dip at WR this year. A lot of speed is available and Dell is the greatest separator I’ve seen in years, but sadly I don’t know how his size will hold up. 

 

 

Steve Avila     6’ 4”   330lbs 

 

Andrew Vorhees  6’ 6”  325lbs 

 

Atonio Mafi   6’ 4”    339lbs 

 

 

 

I went with day 2-3   IOL because I would like to see us go back to back WR/WR seeming how the draft is very top heavy for wideouts this year. 

 

 

If we came out of the draft with Flowers, Hyatt, Avila, and Vorhees I would be very very happy. 

 

 

 

 

 

I like Rice a lot.  That size combined with that kind of speed are often rare finds. The knock on him is drops and with what we say from Davis this season, I don't want to replace our WR2 just to replace him with another guy that can't hang onto it.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

I won't be surprised to see Bills go DE, o-line, and safety somewhere in the first four rounds.  I also expect them to pick a WR but not one of the well known guys from a big name school (maybe in the 4th or 5th rounds).  I understand that everyone wants the next Justin Jefferson but I don't think Beane values WR with that kind of selection unless some crazy talented guy drops to pick 27.  A late round pick or UDFA could be a big running back to complement Cook and put some punch in the running game.  Beane's retention of the team's free agents and signings of new free agents will give us a pretty good road map for the draft (as it has in the past).

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I like Rice a lot.  That size combined with that kind of speed are often rare finds. The knock on him is drops and with what we say from Davis this season, I don't want to replace our WR2 just to replace him with another guy that can't hang onto it.

Here are a list of WRs that came out of SMU that had greater than 1,000 yards. 

 

Rashee Rice

James Proche 

Trey Quinn

Courtland Sutton

Jeremy Johnson 

Keenan Holman 

Darius Johnson 

Cole Beasley 

Aldrich Robinson 

Emmanuel Sanders 

 

The best from that program is Rashee Rice

 

Rashee Rice   1,355 yards

Emmanuel Sanders 1,339 yards

Courtland Sutton  1,246 yards

 

Rashee Rice is also the fastest of those 3.  Rice projects at a 40 time of 4.36   , Sutton’s was a 4.54  and Emmanuel Sanders was a 4.41 

 

 

Would we be ok with a young Emmanuel Sanders? Because his comps seeming comparable. 

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Here are a list of WRs that came out of SMU that had greater than 1,000 yards. 

 

Rashee Rice

James Proche 

Trey Quinn

Courtland Sutton

Jeremy Johnson 

Keenan Holman 

Darius Johnson 

Cole Beasley 

Aldrich Robinson 

Emmanuel Sanders 

 

The best from that program is Rashee Rice

 

Rashee Rice   1,355 yards

Emmanuel Sanders 1,339 yards

Courtland Sutton  1,246 yards

 

Rashee Rice is also the fastest of those 3.  Rice projects at a 40 time of 4.36   , Sutton’s was a 4.54  and Emmanuel Sanders was a 4.41 

 

 

Would we be ok with a young Emmanuel Sanders? Because his comps seeming comparable. 

Sanders had 3 straight at least 1K with Denver and had 101 catches in 2014.  Besides being faster than Sanders, he's also got 3 inches in height on him too.  I like guys that can go up and get the ball. 

 

For Gabe Davis' height (who's also 6' 2"), he never seems to go up for the ball.  He always waits for the ball to come to him, which allows smaller DBs to get a hand in there and break it up.  Receivers are taught to catch balls at the highest point they are able, but Gabe never does it.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Milanos Milano]

33 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Sanders had 3 straight at least 1K with Denver and had 101 catches in 2014.  Besides being faster than Sanders, he's also got 3 inches in height on him too.  I like guys that can go up and get the ball. 

 

For Gabe Davis' height (who's also 6' 2"), he never seems to go up for the ball.  He always waits for the ball to come to him, which allows smaller DBs to get a hand in there and break it up.  Receivers are taught to catch balls at the highest point they are able, but Gabe never does it.

Sanders went in the 3rd round that year. So based on size and speed advantages, it’s possible Rice goes in the 2nd round. 

[OldTimer1960]

3 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I like Rice a lot.  That size combined with that kind of speed are often rare finds. The knock on him is drops and with what we say from Davis this season, I don't want to replace our WR2 just to replace him with another guy that can't hang onto it.

From the limited videos I have seen, he doesn’t play like a guy who runs away from corners and that is against mostly modest competition.  Rice has very good size and seems to have good hands and contested catch ability.  Is he better than Davis?  Further, again limited videos review, he seems to have a lot of his success from the slot.

[Milanos Milano]

Here are a list of WRs that ran a sub 4.40 and had over 1,000 yards of production that played in the SEC going back to 2010. 

 

Jalin Hyatt     1,267 yards    18.9 yard/rec      Projected low 4.3s      6’0”  185lbs                ? 

Jameson Williams  1,572 yards   19.9 yards/rec              4.25            6’2”  189lbs         1st round #12

Elijah Moore   1,193 yards        13.9 yard/rec                    4.35           5’10”  179lbs         2nd round #34

Ja’Marr Chase  1,780 yards     21.2 yard/rec                    4.38            6’0”   201lbs        1st round #5

Odell Beckham Jr.  1,152 yards   19.5 yard/rec                 4.31            5’11”  198lbs        1st round #12

Julio Jones       1,133 yards       14.5 yard/rec                   4.39            6’3”   220lbs       1st round #6 

 

If we get Jalin Hyatt at #27  I would consider that a steal all things considering. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[H2o]

Zay Flowers IS that dude

 

[The Jokeman]

If there's one thing I've learned in watching Josh Allen is quickness and separation our important for WRs. Deep speed is important but not the most vital thing as Beasley was hardly a speed demon and Diggs excelled finding softness in coverage etc. I'm not sure how you can measure a WR this without scouting them and seeing it for yourself but am welcome finding a WR that can do but also give us some size (see over 6'4") would be welcome as he'd also be great for the red zone. 

[whorlnut]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

Zay Flowers IS that dude

 

Flowers reminds me a lot of Kadarius Toney. He has some swagger to him too. 

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Flowers reminds me a lot of Kadarius Toney. He has some swagger to him too. 

Flowers reminds me A LOT of Stef. 

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Flowers reminds me a lot of Kadarius Toney. He has some swagger to him too. 

I’m very hesitant to draft or even sign UDFA WRs outside of the power conferences, there are just wayyyy to many busts. 

 

Zay Jones

Calvin Austin

Andy Isabella

Antonio Gandy-Golden

Tutu Atwell 

Anthony Miller

Anthony Johnson 

Roger Lewis 

Taywan Taylor 

Justin Hardy

Stedman Bailey 

Tavon Austin 

Greg Salas 

 

 

About the only really good WR to come out of a non power conference that put up good numbers in college was Davante Adams. 

 

Toney at least came from Florida which is obviously SEC. WanDale (yet to be determined) came from Kentucky which is obviously SEC. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[Milanos Milano]

If you are a wide receiver, and if you aren’t coming from the SEC, Pac 10, Big 12, ACC, or Big 10 I’m 9/10 going to overlook you unless you are coming from either SMU, CMU, or BSU. That’s just a general rule I have, and it tends to yield very good predictor for NFL success, especially if it is combined with sub 4.45 speed and 1,000 yard+ production. If you can check the box of 2/3 of those things, you get a glance. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’m very hesitant to draft or even sign UDFA WRs outside of the power conferences, there are just wayyyy to many busts. 

 

Zay Jones

Calvin Austin

Andy Isabella

Antonio Gandy-Golden

Tutu Atwell 

Anthony Miller

Anthony Johnson 

Roger Lewis 

Taywan Taylor 

Justin Hardy

Stedman Bailey 

Tavon Austin 

Greg Salas 

 

 

About the only really good WR to come out of a non power conference that put up good numbers in college was Davante Adams. 

 

Toney at least came from Florida which is obviously SEC. WanDale (yet to be determined) came from Kentucky which is obviously SEC. 

Flowers plays in the ACC, Boston College

 

And Tutu Atwell was the size of a middle school kid. Common sense should have told anyone to stay away from him. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by H2o

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, H2o said:

Flowers plays in the ACC, Boston College

 

And Tutu Atwell was the size of a middle school kid. Common sense should have told anyone to stay away from him. 

There area handful of teams within the power conferences that I stay away from generally as well for WRs. BC is on that list. Nothing good comes from teams like NC State, Duke, NC, BC, Vandy, ILL, NW, Indiana, Purdue, Louisville, WV, Kansas, Kstate, Baylor, Stanford, Nebraska, Colorado, etc. I have yet to see WRs pan out from these locations 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[Milanos Milano]

I mean when was the last time a WR from Wisconsin did anything? There are just some teams you stay away from when it comes to WRs. If they aren’t running sub 4.4s and play for a power conference and team that is traditionally good, I usually will not advocate to draft you. 

[Yantha]

Honestly while do do think WR is a need, I still think that Gabe Davis is going to become the player he was in LAST season's playoffs....  plus Shakir is going to be a major impact player next season IMO.  With those 3, we're pretty good.  Now if a WR that's ranked high falls to us in the first, you have to take him, but I'd prefer interior O-line there.

 

Also, what about SAFETY?  Our starters are both on the wrong side of 30 next season.

 

Should we be talking about Alabama's Brian Branch or Texas AM Antonio Johnson as options?

Arguably a bigger need than WR (assuming Gates/Shakir work out the way I think they can)?

[Milanos Milano]

Who remember Chris Givens? He was a Wake Forest product, ran a 4.41 and had 1,350 yards of production. Was drafted in the 4th round. It’s another reason why I’m hesitant to pull the trigger on AT Perry. It’s just not worth the risk and waste of draft pick. Same with the NC state and NC WRs. Just not worth it. 

2 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Honestly while do do think WR is a need, I still think that Gabe Davis is going to become the player he was in LAST season's playoffs....  plus Shakir is going to be a major impact player next season IMO.  With those 3, we're pretty good.  Now if a WR that's ranked high falls to us in the first, you have to take him, but I'd prefer interior O-line there.

 

Also, what about SAFETY?  Our starters are both on the wrong side of 30 next season.

 

Should we be talking about Alabama's Brian Branch or Texas AM Antonio Johnson as options?

Arguably a bigger need than WR (assuming Gates/Shakir work out the way I think they can)?

Gabe came from UCF. The statistics are not in his favor. It’s less than a 10% rate that a non traditional conference powerhouse team yields a NFL star WR. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

There area handful of teams within the power conferences that I stay away from generally as well for WRs. BC is on that list. Nothing good comes from teams like NC State, Duke, NC, BC, Vandy, ILL, NW, Indiana, Purdue, Louisville, WV, Kansas, Kstate, Baylor, Stanford, Nebraska, Colorado, etc. I have yet to see WRs pan out from these locations 

You could probably do that with a number of teams in college. Just because Alabama, Ohio St., and LSU have had a decent recent run doesn't mean they haven't had their fair share of flops. To categorize someone like that is foolish. On a side note though, Flowers IS that dude. 

[Milanos Milano]

Based on my statistical analysis, Jalin Hyatt,  Rashee Rice, Quentin Johnston, and the OSU WRs are the safest and most likely WRs to be successful in the NFL. 

[peterpan]

Please God for once draft someone with SIZE.  I’ve been screaming for someone with SIZE for DECADES.  
 

the pick for EJ Manual was so clearly Mike Evans(not Watkins).  A HuUGE target to jump and catch poorly thrown balls.  
 

Imagine Allen lofting up deep balls after scrambling to a freak like Evans!!!

 

that’s why I wanted DK Metcalf when he fell into the 2nd.  That dude was a FREAK.  Allen to Metcalf for the 60 yard bomb, like fish in a bucket. 

 

but I’m sure we will draft another little guy to play the role of “can’t catch contested balls”

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by peterpan

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

You could probably do that with a number of teams in college. Just because Alabama, Ohio St., and LSU have had a decent recent run doesn't mean they haven't had their fair share of flops. To categorize someone like that is foolish. On a side note though, Flowers IS that dude. 

Not since 2010. Which is really all that is relevant given the modernity of the NFL now. Generally receivers that played in power university that ran a sub 4.4 and put up production (1,000 yards+) went on to have good NFL careers. 

1 minute ago, peterpan said:

Please God for once draft someone with SIZE.  I’ve been screaming for someone with SIZE for DECADES.  
 

the puck with EJ Manual was so clearly Mike Evans.  A HuUGE target to jump and catch poorly thrown balls.  
 

Imagine Allen lifting up deep balls after scrambling to a freak like Evans!!!

 

that’s why I wanted DK Metcalf when he fell into the 2nd.  That dude was a FREAK.  Allen to Metcalf for the 60 yard bomb, like fish in a bucket. 

 

but I’m sure we will draft another little guy to play the role of “can’t catch contested balls”

 

There is no freak WR with speed in this years draft. Not one with college production in a major university. 

[peterpan]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:. 

There is no freak WR with speed in this years draft. Not one with college production in a major university. 

Better trade for one then 

[NeverOutNick]

2 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Better trade for one then 

His name is Deandre Hopkins

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Better trade for one then 

AT Perry is the closest at 6’5”  205lbs  and runs a 4.48   . But he plays for Wake Forest which is a huge negative NFL predictor of success. 

1 minute ago, NeverOutNick said:

His name is Deandre Hopkins

How are we going to afford him? 

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Not since 2010. Which is really all that is relevant given the modernity of the NFL now. Generally receivers that played in power university that ran a sub 4.4 and put up production (1,000 yards+) went on to have good NFL careers. 

Courtland Sutton, Devante Adams, Cooper Kupp, Dionte Johnson, Christian Watson started to really come on this year even as a rookie. Your logic is flawed

[Milanos Milano]

10 minutes ago, H2o said:

Courtland Sutton, Devante Adams, Cooper Kupp, Dionte Johnson, Christian Watson started to really come on this year even as a rookie. Your logic is flawed

Sutton is SMU, which I already said gets a pass. Those other guys are like a rare handful out of a sea of hundreds. 

If Marvin Harrison Jr. even received 75% of the skill of his father, it would be worth the draft pick. 

[H2o]

24 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Sutton is SMU, which I already said gets a pass. Those other guys are like a rare handful out of a sea of hundreds. 

If Marvin Harrison Jr. even received 75% of the skill of his father, it would be worth the draft pick. 

Harrison is only a Sophomore. All elite players are a rare handful out of the sea of hundreds. Your logic is flawed. Zay Flowers IS that dude. 

 

Oh, and Stef is from Maryland. Adam Thielen from Minnesota St. Edelman from Kent St. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by H2o

[Yantha]

55 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Who remember Chris Givens? He was a Wake Forest product, ran a 4.41 and had 1,350 yards of production. Was drafted in the 4th round. It’s another reason why I’m hesitant to pull the trigger on AT Perry. It’s just not worth the risk and waste of draft pick. Same with the NC state and NC WRs. Just not worth it. 

Gabe came from UCF. The statistics are not in his favor. It’s less than a 10% rate that a non traditional conference powerhouse team yields a NFL star WR. 

Respectfully, I'll look at his time in the NFL.  He's proven that he can be dominant.  I'm not sure what happened but I hope it turns around.

Just now, Yantha said:

Respectfully, I'll look at his time in the NFL.  He's proven that he can be dominant.  I'm not sure what happened but I hope it turns around.

 

That said I don't disagree with you about potential round 1 target WR, IF the right player drops.  I would not reach though.

[blacklabel]

17 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Seeming how this is our biggest needs, give me your list of prospects you would like the Bills to draft. Here are some of my picks that I like. 

 

 

Jordan Addison  6’ 0”  174lbs     4.51 

 

Zay Flowers    5’ 10”    172lbs       4.37 

 

Jalin Hyatt    6’ 0”     185lbs        4.31 

 

Rashee Rice  6’ 2”     203lbs       4.36 

 

Nathaniel Dell   5’ 10”   165lbs     4.43 

 

 

My 3 personal favorites are Flowers, Hyatt and Rice. I hope we can double dip at WR this year. A lot of speed is available and Dell is the greatest separator I’ve seen in years, but sadly I don’t know how his size will hold up. 

 

 

Steve Avila     6’ 4”   330lbs 

 

Andrew Vorhees  6’ 6”  325lbs 

 

Atonio Mafi   6’ 4”    339lbs 

 

 

 

I went with day 2-3   IOL because I would like to see us go back to back WR/WR seeming how the draft is very top heavy for wideouts this year. 

 

 

If we came out of the draft with Flowers, Hyatt, Avila, and Vorhees I would be very very happy. 

 

They better find some good players, a couple of real troopers or else we'll send Beane running for the hills. Whatever they do just don't sign anymore wicker men that'll break on impact. They might take the trade wire down to two minutes to midnight and swing for a big time player. They've really gotta stop the evil that Mahomes can do. Can't have a fear of the dark, gotta get some OL so Cook and Hines can start running free. Another QB prowler like Von would be aces...high! I'm no clairvoyant but they gotta soar where eagles dare if they wanna win. There'll be no prayers for the losing! Finally, let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast... For it is a human number... It's number is seventeen!

 

...I'll uh, I'll see myself out now. 

[Milanos Milano]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Just don’t draft a height, speed guy. Make sure it’s somebody with production.

I listed all the SEC WRs that have speed plus production. Hyatt is in great company. 

45 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Respectfully, I'll look at his time in the NFL.  He's proven that he can be dominant.  I'm not sure what happened but I hope it turns around.

 

That said I don't disagree with you about potential round 1 target WR, IF the right player drops.  I would not reach though.

Given where Jalin Hyatt type players went in the draft, if he is there at #27 , he should be the pick. I listed all SEC players with production plus sub 4.4  40 times and Hyatt joins the list of great WRs. 

[Milanos Milano]

I’m going Hyatt with #27 and Rice with the 2nd pick. If he’s not available, then take Avila who is one of the best pass blockers in the draft.