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Jim Kubiak analysis in The Buffalo News (paywall) - the Bills o-line was horrible


dave mcbride
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33 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

you gotta go to a lot of years of journalism school to come up with those kinds of trenchant observations

 

Kubiak is not a journalist.  He's a former QB, a QB coach, and a HS football coach.

 

He is a huge Allen fan now (after having been critical his first 2 years), but he knows his Ball and is worth reading.

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7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I'm actually going to dispute this. He could stop taking 7-step drops behind an OL that can't pass block. 

The quarterback does not determine the drop length, they are part of every play design in order to achieve proper timing with the routes being run by the receivers.

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4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The quarterback does not determine the drop length, they are part of every play design in order to achieve proper timing with the routes being run by the receivers.

What if's he calling that because that's what he's good at. How many times have we seen josh miss open guys on short passes?

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6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I'm actually going to dispute this. He could stop taking 7-step drops behind an OL that can't pass block. Josh Allen could also stop trying to throw bombs in the snow and take the short passes. I should probably put this in its own thread, but I'm not a thread starter. I think that the way Josh Allen plays is not conducive to winning big games in the playoffs. He doesn't seem capable of throwing short passes. He can throw a 60 yard bomb and his a receiver in the hands, but for some reason he can't throw a screen or hit a receiver in stride on a crossing route. When the weather gets bad and the defenses start to take away the deep threats, you have to be able to respond. I know everyone wants to blame Dorsey, but Josh's accuracy on short timing routes is not good. I think that's why those plays are not called. I want to think that it's something that he can work on, but he's 26 and I'm afraid that he is who he is at this point. This is just a depressing thought that I had driving in wet heavy snow this morning here in Cincinnati, imagining the Bills having to play in the playoffs in Cincinnati next year.

 

Allen is capable of throwing short passes.  It was his choice to do so that won us a bunch of games last season and even earlier this season.  He was also able to throw short timing routes to Beasley last season.   Go look at passing charts at nexgen stats and you'll see.

 

It's true that at times this year, Allen has overlooked open short passes in favor of deep bombs or throwing to a tightly covered receiver.  I can't tell you whether the "long bomb" game is  Dorsey's play design (reading deep to shallow) or how Allen is being coached, but the thing that is amiss is not Allen's lack of short or screen pass throwing abilities.

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

It was the Jags game last year without the 3 turnovers and with a much better offense on the other side. Or for another example watch Mahomes against the Buccaneers in the Super Bowl. Any offense becomes dysfunctional when the OL is getting beaten that badly on most plays.

 

Another thing that frustrates me about this article is it made me realize how stale our defense has become. Frazier's scheme has gotten figured out and easy to counter. Lou Anurumo's versatile scheme had us reeling all game long.

 

Playoff games are won in the trenches and in coaching. We were totally outmatched in both on offense and defense.

Quoted for truth. 
 

It seems they’ve been trying to get the right players to perfect the defensive scheme they installed 5 years ago.   But they don’t realize the league figured that scheme out long ago. Time to move on. 
 

Similar to the offense, they go figured out about week 4.  Dorsey didn’t adapt, and the line especially was exposed. 

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1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Another thing that frustrates me about this article is it made me realize how stale our defense has become. Frazier's scheme has gotten figured out and easy to counter. Lou Anurumo's versatile scheme had us reeling all game long.

 

 



The defensive scheme works... IF!  playmakers are making big time plays consistently, pressure on the QB / sacks coupled with turnovers.... When that doesn't happen the defense is very vulnerable. With the injuries we had to key players adjustments should of been made

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3 minutes ago, QCity said:

They were getting pressure and sacks rushing 3. Any offense in the league is dead in the water if you let that happen.

 

Certainly was a big part of the program (but not all of it).  Dawkins and Saffold simply did not come ready to play, period.  I know Beane would be critical of that comment because apparently I'm just a social media film critic, but it was clear as day those two were stealing money on Sunday (and most of the season).

Edited by Coach Tuesday
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Just now, FrenchConnection said:

What if's he calling that because that's what he's good at. How many times have we seen josh miss open guys on short passes?

 

Some, but not very many:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2020

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2021

 

Josh injured his elbow Week 9, and said it impacted his throwing motion until Week 18 or so:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2022

 

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2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Allen is capable of throwing short passes.  It was his choice to do so that won us a bunch of games last season and even earlier this season.  He was also able to throw short timing routes to Beasley last season.   Go look at passing charts at nexgen stats and you'll see.

 

It's true that at times this year, Allen has overlooked open short passes in favor of deep bombs or throwing to a tightly covered receiver.  I can't tell you whether the "long bomb" game is  Dorsey's play design (reading deep to shallow) or how Allen is being coached, but the thing that is amiss is not Allen's lack of short or screen pass throwing abilities.

 

 

Dorsey's scheme was all about keeping the middle of the field open. He basically sent receivers on out patterns or sent them on longer patterns, the majority of the time, just to keep the middle open for Allen scambles. As we saw Allen scambles became less effetive as the year wore on and the mind boggling thing is no adjustments were made, a solid portion of our Offensive plan was nullfied. Our OL couldn't keep the middle open, and teams ran a spy on Allen as well. As we saw during the Bengals Allen tried numerous times to step up and run only to be shut down immediately. Basically Dorseys O scheme had no answers to counter this and it got woefully exposed.

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6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

What if's he calling that because that's what he's good at. How many times have we seen josh miss open guys on short passes?

 

For some reason, if it’s a screen he never has a chance. Why can some teams run effective screens, but ours are often sniffed out and blown up before it has a chance to develop?  Too many of those balls get thrown into the dirt intentionally. WHY IS THIS SO HARD??? 

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Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

Dorsey's scheme was all about keeping the middle of the field open. He basically sent receivers on out patterns or sent them on longer patterns, the majority of the time, just to keep the middle open for Allen scambles. As we saw Allen scambles became less effetive as the year wore on and the mind boggling thing is no adjustments were made, a solid portion of our Offensive plan was nullfied. Our OL couldn't keep the middle open, and teams ran a spy on Allen as well. As we saw during the Bengals Allen tried numerous times to step up and run only to be shut down immediately. Basically Dorseys O scheme had no answers to counter this and it got woefully exposed.

 

I don't think this is correct.

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Just now, Augie said:

 

For some reason, if it’s a screen he never has a chance. Why can some teams run effective screens, but ours are often sniffed out and blown up before it has a chance to develop?  Too many of those balls get thrown into the dirt intentionally. WHY IS THIS SO HARD??? 

 

Now this, is a Mystery of Life.  We've had multiple threads on why the Bills can not run a simple screen, and I don't know the answer.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

I really don't want to die on the "Josh Allen Sucks" hill, because I love the guy and how he plays. But he does have trouble hitting receivers in stride on short routes. I just watched Joe Burrow Tom Brady us to death with 5 yard passes with YAC and I was left wondering if Josh is willing or able to play like that. I wonder that because it's what wins in the biggest games. Mahomes plays the same way, but he's flashier doing it. To put a finer point on it, I can't think of an offense that won the SB that was as dependent on the deep passing game as the Bills are. 

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Just now, ddaryl said:

i think so. 

 

Well, obviously you do or you wouldn't type it, but it's kind of hard to have a discussion if you don't provide evidence or examples to bolster what you say.

 

I watch Cover1 film breakdowns, I read Jim Kubiak's QB analysis which includes film breakdowns, anything other guys put out like Kurt Warner or Brett Kollman, I subscribed to NFL+ premium and watched all-22 myself about halfway through the season, I'm not a football guru but

1) that's not what I see

2) that's not what people who know ball and break down the film (see above) are saying.

 

A lot of times when Allen did scramble, it was to the outside, not up the middle.

 

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6 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Dorsey's scheme was all about keeping the middle of the field open. He basically sent receivers on out patterns or sent them on longer patterns, the majority of the time, just to keep the middle open for Allen scambles. As we saw Allen scambles became less effetive as the year wore on and the mind boggling thing is no adjustments were made, a solid portion of our Offensive plan was nullfied. Our OL couldn't keep the middle open, and teams ran a spy on Allen as well. As we saw during the Bengals Allen tried numerous times to step up and run only to be shut down immediately. Basically Dorseys O scheme had no answers to counter this and it got woefully exposed.

 

I mean, Dan Orlovsky did a 5 minute breakdown on ESPN of what teams were doing to stop Allen from escaping the pocket up the middle.  Spies, and faux-rushing a DT....  Random analysts see what's going on, but we somehow never adjust.

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47 minutes ago, Sargent Hulka said:

No, that O-line sucked all year. Allen's impressive running skills hid it. That was taken away in the playoffs.

The oline has sucked for quite a few seasons now.  Allen's escapability and running has mostly overcome their deficiencies.  They really need to address it this off season.  Sign a LG free agent who can start. Draft an OT, WR, and C/G.   Have the OT compete with Brown and the C/G compete with Bates.

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