Dick_Cheney Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Eh. I guess it wasn’t the amazing work of the training staff that saved Hamlin then. I’m glad that god decided to let him live this go around. Really weird article. Wouldn’t it make more sense for god to just not have the whole situation to begin with? Why would anyone choose to believe in a god who is toying with people and apparently deciding who lives and who dies on a whim? Give me a break. 5 2 3 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 53 minutes ago, Chaos said: This is such an improvement over the mocking that Tim Tebow recieved. Josh is a special young man. The mocking Tim Tebow received had to do with him being a bad QB while making a huge public deal out of his Christian faith, and not about him being a Christian per se. The majority of football players are devout Christians according to their lights. A survey a few years back found that 3/4 of starting NFL QB were evangelical Christians. I think it was found there's a similar proportion of Christians (if not evangelical) among the rest of the players, 60-70%. One of the Bills players mentioned 'Chapel' when explaining his Saturday schedule before Sunday games, so we know the Bills hold regular services for the players the night before the game as well as having a chaplain available to them on the sidelines and at practices and just in the facility to talk. So I don't think anyone mocks players for being Christian per se, or ever has done. There are a lot of players who are forthright about being Christian - Kurt Cousins, Kurt Warner before him, Russ Wilson, on the Bills Dawson Knox, Cody Ford, Zack Moss, 'Zo Alexander held bible studies at his house, and so forth. Diggs used to wear tiny crosses as earrings. Von Miller dropped to one knee to pray the first time he walked on the field at Highmark before signing as a Bill. There are prayer circles before and after games. The thing with Tebow was he puffed it up a lot: the mission trips, the public "I'm a virgin" proclamations, the Bible verses on his eye black, "Tebowing" on the sidelines. He reportedly monetized it by charging $50,000 per engagement to speak at churches. Then it got to the point where no one could question him as a player (and the Broncos coaches had plenty of reason to question) without being called "anti-Christian" while ministers were attributing Broncos wins to "divine favor" because they were playing Tebow. When there are devout believers on both sides of the ball, does it seem right to believe that God picks sides? Give praise to God after a win, sure, but attribute? St Louis kinda went through this with Warner (who, by the way, was NOT mocked for being Christian) when his wife Brenda went on a local radio station and said her husband was being benched because the coaches were opposed to his Christian Faith. No, Brenda, the coaches were against your husband fumbling 6 times in Game 1 of the 2003 NFL season. It's hard to win in the NFL when you turn the ball over 4 times and luck that there weren't 3 more. Fun fact, Josh's GF started self-identifying as "Christian" on her Insta a couple years back. Her brother was part of the ministerial staff at a church somewhere in the SE for a while; his insta handle is "Jordan the REDEEMED". So I suspect this is something that's been moving around below the surface for Josh for a while. 2 1 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMiller Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Weirdest thread I’ve seen on TBD in a while, which is saying a lot. 2 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 So when someone has a cardiac arrest and doesn’t make it, is it in part because there wasn’t enough prayer? 4 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 57 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said: I'm always thrilled when people come to faith in Jesus Christ or are renewed in that faith. I think the prayer of thousands was certainly a benefit in saving Hamlin's life and hastening his recovery. What I don't buy into is God intervening to determine the outcome of games, the Sabres game alluded to in the article as an example. I believe God is active in the world, but is not in the habit of picking favorites in athletic events. God gives the toughest battles, to his toughest soldiers. ^^sounds like being a Bills fans a lot to me 😆😆😆 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoteam Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Matt Barkley will be someone Josh can turn to as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 36 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said: I was a pastor for 40 years, including the years you mentioned. I never prayed for the Bills or anybody else to win the SB. I never even prayed that Tom Brady would fall on his face. Records were meant to be broken. Dont forget to say please 😆😆😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 I’m always a little taken a back by the evangelism in the NFL. I mean I get it given how deeply rooted the sport is through the Bible Belt. I guess I am always surprised at how much room isn’t left in the NFL (and it’s fans) for other versions of faith and spirituality. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, letsgoteam said: Matt Barkley will be someone Josh can turn to as well. I forgot about that. He has a video with a website talking about how he came to God. Hes really young in the video, and remember him being very likeable. Its for "i am second". Videos on youtube for anyone intrrested (Edit: checked it, hes comically young in it 😆 great hairline) Edited January 14, 2023 by BillsShredder83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said: So when someone has a cardiac arrest and doesn’t make it, is it in part because there wasn’t enough prayer? Exactly. Emergency responders and doctors and nurses fight their hardest for everyone. Just imagine how horrid for someone to lose a loved one and have it implied there wasn't enough prayer or it wasn't high enough quality prayer or something. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mango said: I’m always a little taken a back by the evangelism in the NFL. I mean I get it given how deeply rooted the sport is through the Bible Belt. I guess I am always surprised at how much room isn’t left in the NFL (and it’s fans) for other versions of faith and spirituality. I never begrudge anyone on that note. Even Paul said, "Your faith have as a matter of your own conviction between you and your God." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mango said: I’m always a little taken a back by the evangelism in the NFL. I mean I get it given how deeply rooted the sport is through the Bible Belt. I guess I am always surprised at how much room isn’t left in the NFL (and it’s fans) for other versions of faith and spirituality. I think that locker rooms are a melting pot and in general more tolerant of differences than the general public. I mean, if it's true that 60-80% of the players identify as Christian, that means 20-40% don't, right? Edited January 14, 2023 by Beck Water 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Exactly. Emergency responders and doctors and nurses fight their hardest for everyone. Just imagine how horrid for someone to lose a loved one and have it implied there wasn't enough prayer or it wasn't high enough quality prayer or something. Anyone who would imply that...does not know God. 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 I think it is really cool that Josh was impacted positively in a way that has made him reevaluate things and think differently about life, his beliefs, and existence in general. A lot of us go through life thinking we have all the answers. Sometimes things happen that show us we don't. Sometimes we receive evidence that there is something more out there than we would have supposed. It's a cool feeling when that happens. Good for him. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Josh is truly a good dude. A guy with his level of talent who can literally play QB against anyone on the planet punch for punch should honestly be much cockier individual but he’s just a down to earth good human being. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mango said: I’m always a little taken a back by the evangelism in the NFL. I mean I get it given how deeply rooted the sport is through the Bible Belt. I guess I am always surprised at how much room isn’t left in the NFL (and it’s fans) for other versions of faith and spirituality. There's plenty of room for others to have their own beliefs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 35 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said: Eh. I guess it wasn’t the amazing work of the training staff that saved Hamlin then. I’m glad that god decided to let him live this go around. Really weird article. Wouldn’t it make more sense for god to just not have the whole situation to begin with? Why would anyone choose to believe in a god who is toying with people and apparently deciding who lives and who dies on a whim? Give me a break. He doesn’t toy with us, He loves us more than we can imagine. All of us are just passing through. You’re free to believe anything you like when it comes to the hereafter, but even choosing to believe God doesn’t exist is a belief that requires faith. My only follow up question for you would be what if you’re wrong? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goin Breakdown Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 16 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said: So when someone has a cardiac arrest and doesn’t make it, is it in part because there wasn’t enough prayer? This is a tough one. I don't think that prayer is always for the one you are praying for, but sometimes it's for the person praying. I think in this case it was a reminder to many that we still have faith and hope in something greater than ourselves. I believe that God will was for Hamlin to recover and I also believe that this situation gave people hope and unity for once. We needed it. Hamlin is a man of faith and I would confidently say that if we were to ask him if his experience caused thousands of people around the world to look to God for hope, he would do it again. I hope any of this makes sense. I respect if it doesn't. Go Bills 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said: This is a tough one. I don't think that prayer is always for the one you are praying for, but sometimes it's for the person praying. I think in this case it was a reminder to many that we still have faith and hope in something greater than ourselves. I believe that God will was for Hamlin to recover and I also believe that this situation gave people hope and unity for once. We needed it. Hamlin is a man of faith and I would confidently say that if we were to ask him if his experience caused thousands of people around the world to look to God for hope, he would do it again. I hope any of this makes sense. I respect if it doesn't. Go Bills Yeah, I definitely think that prayer is benevolent for those doing the praying. I don't have a specific faith but I was definitely saying and thinking "Just let him be ok" that night, even if it was to nobody in particular. The thing that gets me is implying that the prayer worked because the outcome was good. That necessarily means that when the outcome is bad, the prayer didn't work. To me it's a strange way of looking at a world where terrible undeserved things happen every day, that the victims of those things don't have enough cosmic energy on their side or something while others get helped. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said: Yeah, I definitely think that prayer is benevolent for those doing the praying. I don't have a specific faith but I was definitely saying and thinking "Just let him be ok" that night, even if it was to nobody in particular. The thing that gets me is implying that the prayer worked because the outcome was good. That necessarily means that when the outcome is bad, the prayer didn't work. To me it's a strange way of looking at a world where terrible undeserved things happen every day, that the victims of those things don't have enough cosmic energy on their side or something while others get helped. I was struggling to say something like this and you put it really well. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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