Thoughts on Bengals Game.

[Kiva]

2 hours ago, Casey D said:

Neither will happen.  No time to play the game, the NFL is not going to change the playoff schedule over a seeding issue.  They will not give both teams a win, that makes zero sense.  It will simply be a no contest, and seeding will be done with Bills and Bengals having played a 16 game schedule. 

That’s fair, As long as we keep 1 seed. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

They outclass us at most positions on the field….. oh man.  
 

ok I need to go for a run.  
 

 

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

They executed well for 8 plays-  

 

We executed well for 10 plays- then brown didn’t pick up a blitz for an incompletion and Allen threw a high pass that Beasley could’ve come down with, but didn’t.  
 

let’s not act like the bengals would’ve executed everything to perfection the entire game because they did on their first 8 plays.  
 

this thread is 💩 
 

 

 

 

 

3- no contest- both teams finish the season with 16 games

4- rule it a tie- really doubt that happens. 

Given that you don't seem to appreciate the talent Cincinnati has on their football team (the reigning AFC Champions), I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that you think 8 plays in a football game at the highest level is inconsequential. it's ~ 12-15% of a game and enough to put 2 touchdowns on the board. Unless you were sleeping when 13 seconds happened, I'd like to think you have first hand experience to understand how critical each play of a game is.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Of course we are playing he said she said. Of course we are speculating. Of course no one knows how the game would have ended. However, I just can't refuse to acknowledge what I saw in the game 5 minutes or not...I can't help but think Bengal fans and players think they have the better team. 

And by the look of your OP and my first post in your thread, my speculation seems to be in line with majority of the board, while yours doesn’t seem to be hitting the mark. 
 

You’re certainly entitled to speculate.  That doesn’t mean your reasoning makes any sense.  Watching this game for 40+ years, I know that the first 5 minutes of a game can as easily mean very little as much as it means a lot.  🎲

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Fan in San Diego said:

We are a second half team anyways. Halftime adjustments would have been made.

That would be the first time in 5 years that they have.

[NewEra]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

 

Given that you don't seem to appreciate the talent Cincinnati has on their football team (the reigning AFC Champions), I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that you think 8 plays in a football game at the highest level is inconsequential. it's ~ 12-15% of a game and enough to put 2 touchdowns on the board. Unless you were sleeping when 13 seconds happened, I'd like to think you have first hand experience to understand how critical each play of a game is.

Oh man.  I appreciate them just fine.  Its a great team and I worry about them more than KC.  I think we may have a difference of opinion on what the word “most” means.  
 

if you consider “most” 50.1%+ or more of the total, I might be able to agree with that statement. i think it’s a subjective statement that could shift towards either side depending on who’s grading the players. I think that term would be “more”
 

If you consider most to be 70%+ ish or more than the total, I think it’s a terrible statement.  I consider “most” to be around this amount.  
 

i don’t consider “most” to be 50.1%+

[dakrider]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Everyone wants him to fully recover, but if he does there is ZERO chance he plays football again this season.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to insinuate he would be back. Just that he would recover such as be able to walk out of that hospital.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We all own a TV.

 

We all saw it.

 

We all follow the NFL and have a general feel for who the good players are.

 

I think this game should be a neon sign to the coaches that they have to play bonafide #1 WRs different.

 

The more enlightening discussion given the events of the game, to me, would be a discussion amongst Bills fans on how to best approach the secondary going forward.

 

You have:

 

Hyde still out

 

Hamlin out

 

Tre is slow and has a giant “throw it here” sign taped to his back

 

Elam sitting on the bench

 

Rhodes starts one game, now inactive 

 

Marlowe inactive every week

 

Cam Lewis has pushed Johnson out of the backup Safety position?

 

Against the Bears, with no Claypool, Mooney or St. Brown we could sit comfortably in our base nickel and eat any big plays against us. 
 

But that approach hasn’t worked against Hill/Waddle, Jefferson, Chase.

 

So my questions would be:

 

1. Do fans have faith in this coaching staff to change anything against teams with top flight passing games?

 

2. PFF has rated all of our corners approximately the same (50’s overall) with Taron Johnson in the low 60’s. 
 

Given that, what can the Bills do? 

Seems to me that the 2-deep shell works against teams that can’t score. 
 

But logistically would it work if the Bills took a below average Safety (Johnson, Cam Lewis) off the field, and employed true double coverage on a #1 in a dime arrangement? Leaving just Poyer as the veteran deep-Safety?

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh man.  I appreciate them just fine.  Its a great team and I worry about them more than KC.  I think we may have a difference of opinion on what the word “most” means.  
 

if you consider “most” 50.1%+ or more of the total, I might be able to agree with that statement. i think it’s a subjective statement that could shift towards either side depending on who’s grading the players. I think that term would be “more”
 

If you consider most to be 70%+ ish or more than the total, I think it’s a terrible statement.  I consider “most” to be around this amount.  
 

i don’t consider “most” to be 50.1%+

I consider most to be 50.1%, but I also believe they are equal to better than us at most positions. If I'm thinking about positions on the team we have a decent edge on them, I have LB, K, P and maybe TE and CB. If our safeties were healthy they'd be there too, but they aren't. They demolish us at WR and we do no better than push with them elsewhere on the offense outside of TE where we may have a slight edge. On Defense they're mostly on par though Hendrickson + Hubbard ar ebetter than Groot + [whoever] and Milano is better than any of their LBs.

While I do think our special teams is better, they also have talent there.

[newcam2012]

46 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Given that you don't seem to appreciate the talent Cincinnati has on their football team (the reigning AFC Champions), I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that you think 8 plays in a football game at the highest level is inconsequential. it's ~ 12-15% of a game and enough to put 2 touchdowns on the board. Unless you were sleeping when 13 seconds happened, I'd like to think you have first hand experience to understand how critical each play of a game is.

Well said! Hope his run was refreshing because you certainly have him a smack down. 

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And by the look of your OP and my first post in your thread, my speculation seems to be in line with majority of the board, while yours doesn’t seem to be hitting the mark. 
 

You’re certainly entitled to speculate.  That doesn’t mean your reasoning makes any sense.  Watching this game for 40+ years, I know that the first 5 minutes of a game can as easily mean very little as much as it means a lot.  🎲

But your thinking is flawed because the first 5 minutes of the game isn't speculation. It's what happened. It's a fact and all you have is what might happen or could have happened. It's ok to admit the Bills were getting beat up pretty good. It's pretty logical to think the Bills D wasn't going to be better without Halim and Johnson. A little reality goes a long way. 

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh man.  I appreciate them just fine.  Its a great team and I worry about them more than KC.  I think we may have a difference of opinion on what the word “most” means.  
 

if you consider “most” 50.1%+ or more of the total, I might be able to agree with that statement. i think it’s a subjective statement that could shift towards either side depending on who’s grading the players. I think that term would be “more”
 

If you consider most to be 70%+ ish or more than the total, I think it’s a terrible statement.  I consider “most” to be around this amount.  
 

i don’t consider “most” to be 50.1%+

OMG my head is spinning on this one...I thought we were talking football and the Bills vs Bengals? 

[newcam2012]

39 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We all own a TV.

 

We all saw it.

 

We all follow the NFL and have a general feel for who the good players are.

 

I think this game should be a neon sign to the coaches that they have to play bonafide #1 WRs different.

 

The more enlightening discussion given the events of the game, to me, would be a discussion amongst Bills fans on how to best approach the secondary going forward.

 

You have:

 

Hyde still out

 

Hamlin out

 

Tre is slow and has a giant “throw it here” sign taped to his back

 

Elam sitting on the bench

 

Rhodes starts one game, now inactive 

 

Marlowe inactive every week

 

Cam Lewis has pushed Johnson out of the backup Safety position?

 

Against the Bears, with no Claypool, Mooney or St. Brown we could sit comfortably in our base nickel and eat any big plays against us. 
 

But that approach hasn’t worked against Hill/Waddle, Jefferson, Chase.

 

So my questions would be:

 

1. Do fans have faith in this coaching staff to change anything against teams with top flight passing games?

 

2. PFF has rated all of our corners approximately the same (50’s overall) with Taron Johnson in the low 60’s. 
 

Given that, what can the Bills do? 

Seems to me that the 2-deep shell works against teams that can’t score. 
 

But logistically would it work if the Bills took a below average Safety (Johnson, Cam Lewis) off the field, and employed true double coverage on a #1 in a dime arrangement? Leaving just Poyer as the veteran deep-Safety?

Great post and analysis. Without getting into Xs and Os I think the Bills secondary is very vulnerable and beatable. We saw a glimpse of it yesterday. I don't think there are easy answers here. I think the Bills will play a zone coverage and keep everything in front of them. Try to relay on pressure upfront to help them in the passing game. I don't think it will be effective against the likes of good solid passing teams. The road to victory is purely on Allen and the offense. I think it's safe to say the defense won't be the strong suit of the team going into the playoffs. The secondary is a mess. The team really needed Tre to come back into form and Elam to shine. Just hasn't happened. 

[Casey D]

1 hour ago, Kiva said:

That’s fair, As long as we keep 1 seed. 

That won't happen unless we win and KC loses.

[NewEra]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I consider most to be 50.1%, but I also believe they are equal to better than us at most positions. If I'm thinking about positions on the team we have a decent edge on them, I have LB, K, P and maybe TE and CB. If our safeties were healthy they'd be there too, but they aren't. They demolish us at WR and we do no better than push with them elsewhere on the offense outside of TE where we may have a slight edge. On Defense they're mostly on par though Hendrickson + Hubbard ar ebetter than Groot + [whoever] and Milano is better than any of their LBs.

While I do think our special teams is better, they also have talent there.

I think we’re definitely better @

Qb- take burrow if you want.  I’ll take Allen all day every day. 

TE- knox is better than hurst for sure. 

LB- Cinci LBers are very good, but not quite milano and edmunds.  

DT- Reader may be the best of both units, but our depth @ DT is ridiculous.  Jones’ play has been close to that of Reader (worse vs the run but better pass rushing).  Ed Vs hill is close-  Phillips and settle are 100000x better than Tupuo and Carter.  
K-

P- 

 

I think they’re definitely better @

WR- they have us beat-  but we’re one draft pick away from being right there with them.  I’d take Diggs over chase.  

S- Bates is on Poyers level-  bell is better than Hamlin.  Add Hyde and we win.  

 

Unit that could go either way- 

OL- coin flip- neither are good. -
RB- prior to the season, I’d say Cinci. After watching this season, I’d rather have motor and cook.  Cook is looking rather special.  our RBs average 4.6 and 5.8 ypc- Cinci- 4.0 and 4.2.  Both with crappy OLs.  
DE- Tough call- they have the best individual.  We have the better unit 1-5.  If someone chose Cinci over Buffalo, so be it, but it’s dam close.  Add Von and we clearly win.
CB-  I’d give it to us, but I don’t want to be greedy, so I’ll give it a toss up.  I don’t see how anyone could say they are better

 

I’m sure some would give them DE and RB to Cinci and if so, that’s still not most.  It’s not even more.  
 

I think you’re definition of most represent more. i disagree with both definitions after taking a deeper dive. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Well said! Hope his run was refreshing because you certainly have him a smack down. 

But your thinking is flawed because the first 5 minutes of the game isn't speculation. It's what happened. It's a fact and all you have is what might happen or could have happened. It's ok to admit the Bills were getting beat up pretty good. It's pretty logical to think the Bills D wasn't going to be better without Halim and Johnson. A little reality goes a long way. 

Dude…..that’s not flawed thinking.  Blood pressure is rising due to stupidity.  Have a nice day man.  🙏🏻 

[Andy1]

In the short view, they looked very evenly matched. Our D often clamps down after the first drive or two. I think turnovers would have decided the game. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

53 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Great post and analysis. Without getting into Xs and Os I think the Bills secondary is very vulnerable and beatable. We saw a glimpse of it yesterday. I don't think there are easy answers here. I think the Bills will play a zone coverage and keep everything in front of them. Try to relay on pressure upfront to help them in the passing game. I don't think it will be effective against the likes of good solid passing teams. The road to victory is purely on Allen and the offense. I think it's safe to say the defense won't be the strong suit of the team going into the playoffs. The secondary is a mess. The team really needed Tre to come back into form and Elam to shine. Just hasn't happened. 

Thanks Cam.

 

What is most disappointing to me was that first play.

 

How does Leslie Frazier and Sean McDermott with 46-years combined NFL experience think that Tre White on an island with Chase is going to work?

 

When again, Bengals after Bengals analyst (Goodberry on WGR for instance, National guy like Greg Cosell as well) said the same thing: as soon as you go man, no matter what else is on the table, Burrow is going deep to Chase or Higgins. 

And on that play you send some blitz that had no chance of getting there. 

 

That leaves me feeling hollow about this defensive coaching staff when playing A1 type offenses. 

 

We saw it against Kansas City. How are you playing 20 yards off the line and still rushing 4 when you know the Chiefs have to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less? Why are you playing 1978 prevent defense against three HOF players? 
 

How does Kelce get a free release into the secondary? 
 

Tyreek immediately ripped off 25-yards and what do the coaches do? Play the exact same way the next play. Insane.

 

And this year against Jefferson. Just over and over one WR is destroying you. Everyone in the stadium knows it’s coming, 4th-18 and you know exactly where Cousins is going, and just nothing from this staff. 
 

Offensively, Dorsey is doing his job and getting the more explosive Cook on the field.

 

But defensively against good passing teams (not the Patriots or Ravens), maybe it’s a combination of the type

of players we draft, but is this scheme good enough? Are the Coaches going to figure out that Tre is a liability, or how to use Elam, or develop a real

corner for the slot if Johnson goes down? 

Maybe there is nothing we can do. Hyde is out and so the coverage is going to suffer, it’s just the pressing because we all know on sports you don’t get endless chances. 

 

 

[CNYfan]

My thoughts:

   Cinci was physical and fired up.  The hurdling was an obvious attack on the Bills personality and Josh.

                                                          Taron got buried, absolutely buried.  

                                                          Hendrickson tried to injure Josh and did so to some degree.  

James Cook and Stephan Diggs wanted to battle.  

Leslie would have made the adjustments, but we were in for a tough fight.   

Now we have two less of our already decimated secondary and mentally we are probably not ready to go.   I know I am not.  

I have lost my rather substantial appetite to watch football.  I can't see tuning in right quick.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Our special teams still suck despite the investment year after year.

 

Which special teams play in the Bengals game made you post this?

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Thanks Cam.

 

What is most disappointing to me was that first play.

 

How does Leslie Frazier and Sean McDermott with 46-years combined NFL experience think that Tre White on an island with Chase is going to work?

 

When again, Bengals after Bengals analyst (Goodberry on WGR for instance, National guy like Greg Cosell as well) said the same thing: as soon as you go man, no matter what else is on the table, Burrow is going deep to Chase or Higgins. 

And on that play you send some blitz that had no chance of getting there. 

 

That leaves me feeling hollow about this defensive coaching staff when playing A1 type offenses. 

 

We saw it against Kansas City. How are you playing 20 yards off the line and still rushing 4 when you know the Chiefs have to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less? Why are you playing 1978 prevent defense against three HOF players? 
 

How does Kelce get a free release into the secondary? 
 

Tyreek immediately ripped off 25-yards and what do the coaches do? Play the exact same way the next play. Insane.

 

And this year against Jefferson. Just over and over one WR is destroying you. Everyone in the stadium knows it’s coming, 4th-18 and you know exactly where Cousins is going, and just nothing from this staff. 
 

Offensively, Dorsey is doing his job and getting the more explosive Cook on the field.

 

But defensively against good passing teams (not the Patriots or Ravens), maybe it’s a combination of the type

of players we draft, but is this scheme good enough? Are the Coaches going to figure out that Tre is a liability, or how to use Elam, or develop a real

corner for the slot if Johnson goes down? 

Maybe there is nothing we can do. Hyde is out and so the coverage is going to suffer, it’s just the pressing because we all know on sports you don’t get endless chances. 

 

 

I was screaming at the TV after the first play. I said WTF are we doing? What kind of plan was that? The Tre hold saved a TD which they get in a matter of moments. Not sure how or why the Bills looked so unprepared for the Bengal attack. Also, it didn't look like they had it figured out on the 2nd drive either. 

45 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

My thoughts:

   Cinci was physical and fired up.  The hurdling was an obvious attack on the Bills personality and Josh.

                                                          Taron got buried, absolutely buried.  

                                                          Hendrickson tried to injure Josh and did so to some degree.  

James Cook and Stephan Diggs wanted to battle.  

Leslie would have made the adjustments, but we were in for a tough fight.   

Now we have two less of our already decimated secondary and mentally we are probably not ready to go.   I know I am not.  

I have lost my rather substantial appetite to watch football.  I can't see tuning in right quick.

Well stated!

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

The 2nd KO return.

 

So you felt the need to troll this thread in regards to a 25 yrd kickoff return?

[Simon]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Not trolling anything dude.

 

you came into a thread to take a shot at the Bills over a 25 yrd kick return.

That is trolling. It's got you thrown out of here before and it's going to happen again.