Josh Allen: Are His Fumbles an Issue?

[Gugny]

Josh Allen's fumbles (fumbles lost) by season:

 

2018: 8 (2)

2019: 14 (5)

2020: 9 (6)

2021: 8 (3)

2022: 12 (5)

 

Josh is currently on pace to have 15 regular season fumbles.  

 

I know the O Line is trash and I believe that's a huge factor.  I don't know what the split is between the strip sacks and the ones that are popped out during a run/scramble.

 

It's great that he's been much better/smarter with his passes and the INTs have cooled significantly.  But he needs to protect the ball better in the pocket and whilst running.

 

We can't give teams extra chances on offense in the playoffs.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles

 

1Justin Fields 15

1Matt Ryan 15

3Josh Allen 12

4Trevor Lawrence 9

4Jalen Hurts 9

6Marcus Mariota 8

6Kyler Murray 8

8Geno Smith 7

8Aaron Rodgers 7

8Baker Mayfield 7

 

*** EDIT *** @Beck Water does a great job categorizing Allen's 2022 fumbles on Page 2.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Gugny

[Big Turk]

Allen almost never fumbles while running anymore. Used to happen regularly, I can't remember the last time he did while out in the open field running.

[Warriorspikes51]

Allen is so good....he doesn't even need to maintain possession of the football to gain chunks of yards! 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Lamar Jackson has 42 fumbles and 15 losses in his career. 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Allen almost never fumbles while running anymore. Used to happen regularly, I can't remember the last time he did while out in the open field running.

 

I wish there was a place who splits these out, but I cannot find one.  I agree with you .. I feel like the vast majority are strip sacks in the pocket.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

If you look at most QBs, his fumble numbers are consistent. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Lamar Jackson has 42 fumbles and 15 losses in his career. 

All at the wrong time! 😆 

[Gugny]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

If you look at most QBs, his fumble numbers are consistent. 

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles

[hemma]

He needed an eye in the back of his head for this last strip sack.

Just one.

 

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I wish there was a place who splits these out, but I cannot find one.  I agree with you .. I feel like the vast majority are strip sacks in the pocket.

 

and fumbled snaps under center.

[Captain Hindsight]

2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

If you look at most QBs, his fumble numbers are consistent. 

Yeah but then what are we supposed to complain about?

 

And to Gugny's point, yes it is an issue and something I wish he was better about. But with a guy like Allen, he is going to have TO and sack numbers because he never gives up on a play. We don't have the same level of QB play if he were to just go down every time he was in trouble 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Captain Hindsight

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

Yeah but then what are we supposed to complain about?

Josh’s nicknames?

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, hemma said:

He needed an eye in the back of his head for this last strip sack.

Just one.

 

 

 

He had Beasley wide open short for a likely 10-12 yard gain and first down and tried to hold it for something deeper to develop.

[Gugny]

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

Yeah but then what are we supposed to complain about?

 

I am failing to find one complaint in my post.  Can you please point one, or all, of them out for the class?

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I wish there was a place who splits these out, but I cannot find one.  I agree with you .. I feel like the vast majority are strip sacks in the pocket.

Double-edge sword. Shows he's settling in back there, not nervous in the service. BUT... He's gotta feel the pressure presence. Sometimes that extra millisecond is all he needs.

 

What I am saying, take the good with bad and just eliminate the times it happens at critical jumctures.

[Captain Hindsight]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I am failing to find one complaint in my post.  Can you please point one, or all, of them out for the class?

Not directed at you my friend just the state of the board in general

 

My apologies 

[Gugny]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Double-edge sword. Shows he's settling in back there, not nervous in the service. BUT... He's gotta feel the pressure presence. Sometimes that extra millisecond is all he needs.

 

What I am saying, take the good with bad and just eliminate the times it happens at critical jumctures.

 

Yep.  Agreed.  This is much more of a concern when we're playing win or go home games against good offenses.  And like I said, that O Line isn't doing him any favors.

  

[DapperCam]

How many of those are bad snaps or a missed handoff (which gets credited to the QB even if it isn’t their fault necessarily). Morse has been in and out of the lineup all year and it’s messing up the snaps.

[Don Otreply]

I guess we need even more stuff to be “worried, concerned, frightened, about, can we give this endless nonsense a break for like 24 hours, thanks, 

[947]

The strip sack last week was not really an avoidable fumble (unless he'd thrown it sooner of course), if a QB gets blasted in the back while getting ready to pass, the ball is coming out.

 

The only near-fumble that concerned me was the play where he ran it for a short gain down near the GL, had the ball in 1 hand, and and swung it around a defender's head to try & avoid the tackle. That's way too high risk, the second he decides to run, that ball needs to be tucked.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

How many of those are bad snaps or a missed handoff (which gets credited to the QB even if it isn’t their fault necessarily). Morse has been in and out of the lineup all year and it’s messing up the snaps.

 

Totally agreed.  This is why I wish there was a site that split these out.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Yep.  Agreed.  This is much more of a concern when we're playing win or go home games against good offenses.  And like I said, that O Line isn't doing him any favors.

  

Yeah! Except... Spencer Brown saving the game by recovering Saturday's second fumble. Imagine how horrible that game goes if Dolphins get ball back there? That was on the drive that tied it back up! 

[947]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

How many of those are bad snaps or a missed handoff (which gets credited to the QB even if it isn’t their fault necessarily). Morse has been in and out of the lineup all year and it’s messing up the snaps.

Yeah, the shovel pass to McKenzie when he wasn't looking counts as one of Josh's "fumbles".

 

So does the bad snap vs Minnesota. And there was at least one that was a miscommunication on a RPO handoff.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I guess we need even more stuff to be “worried, concerned, frightened, about, can we give this endless nonsense a break for like 24 hours, thanks, 

 

Where I come from, we call these .... discussions.

 

And if we're not interested in them .... we stay out of them.

 

In other words ... Do Not Reply.

 

[WotAGuy]

Ya know, if they would build a dome, we wouldn’t have to worry about snowballs being thrown on the field. 
 

Dildos still pose a problem though. 

[HOUSE]

We could replace Josh Allen with our 32nd pick in the 2023 NFL draft

 

[julian]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Double-edge sword. Shows he's settling in back there, not nervous in the service. BUT... He's gotta feel the pressure presence. Sometimes that extra millisecond is all he needs.

 

What I am saying, take the good with bad and just eliminate the times it happens at critical jumctures.

His pocket awareness is next level, that being said the strip sack was one of the rare occasions that Was 100% on Josh.

 

 His pocket manipulation and ability to to avoid oncoming rushers is a big part of what makes him amazing.

 

 I don’t give a damn about those fumbles.

[MJS]

14 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

If you look at most QBs, his fumble numbers are consistent. 

No, he has always been among the league leaders.

 

It used to be a lot of fumbles while running the ball. That hasn't happened as much this year.

 

Overall, I think it is because he is a QB who holds onto the ball longer. He is not a quick passer. That means more time for the defense to get to him, but it also means bigger plays.

[AuntieEm]

17 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Yeah but then what are we supposed to complain about?

 

And to Gugny's point, yes it is an issue and something I wish he was better about. But with a guy like Allen, he is going to have TO and sack numbers because he never gives up on a play. We don't have the same level of QB play if he were to just go down every time he was in trouble 

 

 We had safe with Tyrod Taylor.  He was better than what we had at qb but that only gets you to the playoffs with outside help.  Not so much earned as getting in based on some team making a bigger mistake.  With Josh we punch our own ticket to the post season.  They haven't yet punched their SB tickets but they will be soon.

 

 

   

[Beck Water]

32 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Josh Allen's fumbles (fumbles lost) by season:

 

2018: 8 (2)

2019: 14 (5)

2020: 9 (6)

2021: 8 (3)

2022: 12 (5)

 

Josh is currently on pace to have 15 regular season fumbles.  

 

I know the O Line is trash and I believe that's a huge factor.  I don't know what the split is between the strip sacks and the ones that are popped out during a run/scramble.

 

It's great that he's been much better/smarter with his passes and the INTs have cooled significantly.  But he needs to protect the ball better in the pocket and whilst running.

 

We can't give teams extra chances on offense in the playoffs.

 

The big difference between this year and last, are fumbles on the QB-C exchange.  There have been 4 of these, either while Morse has been out, or when he's returned with an elbow injury.  One resulted in a TD for the opponent

 

Breakdown:

QB-C exchange (aka aborted snap) 4

Strip sack 6

Run 2

 

One of the fumbles on a run resulted in a TD for us - Josh picked it up and went on to score.  One of the aborted snaps, as we all know, resulted in a TD for Minn.

 

A couple of the strip sacks were a result of a whiffed block, not necessarily by an OLman.  But at least half are Josh trying to extend plays.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Beck Water

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

The big difference between this year and last, are fumbles on the QB-C exchange.  There have been 4 of these, either while Morse has been out, or when he's returned with an elbow injury.  One resulted in a TD for the opponent

 

Breakdown:

QB-C exchange (aka aborted snap) 4

Strip sack 6

Run 2

 

One of the fumbles on a run resulted in a TD for us - Josh picked it up and went on to score.  One of the aborted snaps, as we all know, resulted in a TD for Minn.

 

A couple of the strip sacks were a result of a whiffed block, not necessarily by an OLman.  But at least half are Josh trying to extend plays.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

 

[Beck Water]

18 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Totally agreed.  This is why I wish there was a site that split these out.

 

I don't know of such a site, but it's not hard to pull them out of the box scores on Pro-football-reference.  Do it on a computer or other program where you can search, and search for "fumbles" and "aborted"

[LABILLBACKER]

40 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Allen almost never fumbles while running anymore. Used to happen regularly, I can't remember the last time he did while out in the open field running.

Most if not all of his fumbles now are in the pocket. God knows we need a massive upgrade on 2-3 OL positions. But he's gotta get rid of it before 3 seconds. Better pocket awareness. He has cleaned up the int's.

[Don Otreply]

25 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Where I come from, we call these .... discussions.

 

And if we're not interested in them .... we stay out of them.

 

In other words ... Do Not Reply.

 

Pointing out deficiencies is necessary from time to time 😁👍

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Allen almost never fumbles while running anymore. Used to happen regularly, I can't remember the last time he did while out in the open field running.

Last Saturday. 

[Big Turk]

Just now, AlfaBill said:

Last Saturday. 

 

He did not. He was still in the pocket, not the open field.

[AlfaBill]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

He did not. He was still in the pocket, not the open field.

No he was running past the LOS. I’m referring to the one that brown recovered. Am I wrong that started to run?

[BlazinBill]

Last off-season JA17 had a secret meeting with NFL owners and has agreed to increase fumbles in order to keep the competition close - they really need more back and forth and the other players moms kept complaining that it wasn't fair- there it's out of the bag

Edited December 20, 2022 by BlazinBill

[Big Turk]

Just now, AlfaBill said:

No he was running past the LOS. I’m referring to the one that brown recovered. Am I wrong that started to run?

 

He did start to run but even if he was past the LOS(which I don't believe he was) that in no way was being in the open field, he was literally in the middle between the offensive and defensive linemen.

[GoBills808]

no