Racially motivated murder at Tops

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Why not? What's an assault weapon? A weapon used to assault someone. If you throw a frisbee at someone's head you have just assaulted them

How many rounds a minute does a frisbee fire? 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Reporting for duty...

 

Oh, boy... Just took a look around this thread.  Do we really have people that are trying to down play what happened in the city BFLo by a rural gun nut that drove 4 hours to get to his racially pre-determined targets? 

 

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, ALF said:

One retired Buffalo Police Officer said it best , you can pass all the gun laws you want, but if you don't change peoples hearts it won't matter.

Bingo. Criminals and evil people are the problem when politicians refer to  

“ gun violence”. The only thing we can do is lock them up and bring back the death penalty. Harsh penalties are more helpful to the law abiding citizens than restricting their access to firearms. 

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

It sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions and then resorted to complete dismissal of mine and millions of people's opinion on the matter, which is how these types of conversations often go when people are unable to thoughtfully rebut an argument.

 

They were able to classify automatic weapons by the way they are fired - automatically without pulling the trigger. That one was easy. Now how do you define an assault weapon? Give it a try. There isn't a way to do so without banning all guns

I’m not dismissing your stance at all - I think additional bans are borderline useless at this point anyways and I don’t support them. I was dismissing your particular line of argument talking about frisbees and s**t. Look, if state or fed lawmakers want to give it a go though they will define the weapons specifically. I’d assume they would go after AR-style rifles and the like.

Edited May 16, 2022 by JoPoy88

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

How many rounds a minute does a frisbee fire? 

 

You're missing his point. An AR-15 isn't an "assault weapon". A M4 or M16 is. 

 

Is a Glock 17 an "assault weapon"? Yes or no. 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Reporting for duty...

 

Oh, boy... Just took a look around this thread.  Do we really have people that are trying to down play what happened in the city BFLo by a rural gun nut that drove 4 hours to get to his racially pre-determined targets? 

 

Ehhh no one is downplaying the horrific crime committed by this deranged murderer. 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

I’m not dismissing you’re stance at all - I think additional bans are borderline useless at this point anyways and I don’t support them. I was dismissing your particular line of argument talking about frisbees and s**t. Look, if state or fed lawmakers want to give it a go though they will define the weapons specifically. I’d assume they would go after AR-style rifles and the like.

In what way? How can you define an AR style rifle without then setting a precedent to ban all guns? What is an AR style gun that another type of gun is not? Long, black, semi-automatic, accepts detachable magazines, accepts modular attachments and accessories. Just thinking out loud. If anyone wants to try to define an assault weapon I'll help you understand how by doing so you are banning all guns.

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Reporting for duty...

 

Oh, boy... Just took a look around this thread.  Do we really have people that are trying to down play what happened in the city BFLo by a rural gun nut that drove 4 hours to get to his racially pre-determined targets? 

 

Yes 

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Ehhh no one is downplaying the horrific crime committed by this deranged murderer. 

oh not downplaying, just attempting to deflect attention from the kid’s clear motivations for the crime. Which is what your ilk do whenever this happens, along with a heavy dose of whataboutism. Also, he’s a terrorist. Call it what it is. Ideologically motivated mass murder is terrorism. 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

You're missing his point. An AR-15 isn't an "assault weapon". A M4 or M16 is. 

 

Is a Glock 17 an "assault weapon"? Yes or no. 

It's not? I thought anything could be an assault weapon? So frisbee is an assault weapon but an ar 15 isn't, got it 

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

In what way? How can you define an AR style rifle without then setting a precedent to ban all guns? What is an AR style gun that another type of gun is not? Long, black, semi-automatic, accepts detachable magazines, accepts modular attachments and accessories. Just thinking out loud. If anyone wants to try to define an assault weapon I'll help you understand how by doing so you are banning all guns.

You do agree the kid was a terrorist, right? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, Tiberius said:

It's not? I thought anything could be an assault weapon? So frisbee is an assault weapon but an ar 15 isn't, got it 

 

You failed to answer my question. 

 

Is a "Glock 17" or any other semi-automatic handgun, an "Assault Weapon"? Not a difficult question to answer. 

 

(and again, you've missed his point) 

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

In what way? How can you define an AR style rifle without then setting a precedent to ban all guns? What is an AR style gun that another type of gun is not? Long, black, semi-automatic, accepts detachable magazines, accepts modular attachments and accessories. Just thinking out loud. If anyone wants to try to define an assault weapon I'll help you understand how by doing so you are banning all guns.

your slippery slope is noted. It is hard to define. That’s why, again, I think further outright bans can’t and won’t work. Doesn’t mean legislators should sit on their hands and not try to keep any type of firearm out of the hands of racist, loser kids.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

oh not downplaying, just attempting to deflect attention from the kid’s clear motivations for the crime. Which is what your ilk do whenever this happens, along with a heavy dose of whataboutism. Also, he’s a terrorist. Call it what it is. Ideologically motivated mass murder is terrorism. 

We know the motivations, but shouldn’t be consumed by them. Deranged and evil people commit murder and often use guns. We know because shootings happen every day. We diminish those shootings and the lives lost when we focus only on those involving certain motives to drive a political agenda. Sadly major media outlets are complicit in this and the Buffalo shooting will get far more coverage than the other two that occurred over the same weekend. The focus should be on tough enforcement of existing laws and harsh sentences for criminals. 

[TH3]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

your slippery slope is noted. It is hard to define. That’s why, again, I think further outright bans can’t and won’t work. Doesn’t mean legislators should sit on their hands and not try to keep any type of firearm out of the hands of racist, loser kids.

i dunno ...maybe people who want to own a firemarm prove they are responsible and capable enough to enough to own them and remain accountable for their possesions? 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

your slippery slope is noted. It is hard to define. That’s why, again, I think further outright bans can’t and won’t work. Doesn’t mean legislators should sit on their hands and not try to keep any type of firearm out of the hands of racist, loser kids.

NYS already has a red flag law. Seems this kid would have fit in that category. Did the law fail or the people around him ( teachers , police etc) not to mention his parents ? Legislators cant rid us of crime, but we can get serious about penalties and committing the mentally disturbed. 

[KDIGGZ]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You do agree the kid was a terrorist, right? 

What does that have to do with having a discussion about firearms? There isn't one person alive that wouldn't think that.

 

5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

your slippery slope is noted. It is hard to define. That’s why, again, I think further outright bans can’t and won’t work. Doesn’t mean legislators should sit on their hands and not try to keep any type of firearm out of the hands of racist, loser kids.

Yes not a simple solution unfortunately. Having discussions like this results in people being trigged like the poster above. If you try and explain to the other side why there is more to it than they are taking into consideration they shut down. That's why things don't change unfortunately

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

You failed to answer my question. 

 

Is a "Glock 17" or any other semi-automatic handgun, an "Assault Weapon"? Not a difficult question to answer. 

 

(and again, you've missed his point) 

No, I would not define it that way.  

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

What does that have to do with having a discussion about firearms? There isn't one person alive that wouldn't think that.

 

Yes not a simple solution unfortunately. Having discussions like this results in people being trigged like the poster above. If you try and explain to the other side why there is more to it than they are taking into consideration they shut down. That's why things don't change unfortunately

And this terrorist had too easy of an access to this assault weapon, right? 

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

oh not downplaying, just attempting to deflect attention from the kid’s clear motivations for the crime. Which is what your ilk do whenever this happens, along with a heavy dose of whataboutism. Also, he’s a terrorist. Call it what it is. Ideologically motivated mass murder is terrorism. 

I was born in Buffalo... It's a pretty racist town.  The racists there are downplaying it... And ironically using their political agenda. That ironic racist political agenda is buried into the POPULIST right's ideology.

 

My father quit the Knights of Columbus back when the .22 Caliber Killer was running around BFLo in 1980. My father showed up at the hall bar and the disgusting people, members there were actually joking around, taking up a collection to buy more bullets for the killer.   My father stormed out and never returned. 

 

Don't underestimate how racist our hometown can be!  It runs deep in much of America!

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

What does that have to do with having a discussion about firearms? There isn't one person alive that wouldn't think that.

 

Yes not a simple solution unfortunately. Having discussions like this results in people being trigged like the poster above. If you try and explain to the other side why there is more to it than they are taking into consideration they shut down. That's why things don't change unfortunately

Agreed . Way too much focus on labels and words, not enough on ultimately being anti crime and pro law enforcement. 

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I was born in Buffalo... It's a pretty racist town.  The racists there are downplaying it... And ironically using their political agenda. That ironic racist political agenda is buried into the POPULIST right's ideology.

 

My father quit the Knights of Columbus back when the .22 Caliber Killer was running around BFLo in 1980. My father showed up at the hall bar and the disgusting people, members there were actually joking around, taking up a collection to buy more bullets for the killer.   My father stormed out and never returned. 

 

Don't underestimate how racist our hometown can be!  It runs deep in much of America!

Perhaps you should read up on this case and the nut job that carried it out. He isn’t from Buffalo or even close by. Buffalo is decidedly Democrat in every sense. You think Buffalo is racist because of a story involving a few       ( probably drunk) idiots in a bar? 

[ExiledInIllinois]

I am really not shocked by the deflection, downplaying.  Totally expected the populist right to downplay and deflect. 

 

Same thing with Jan. 6th.  Usual suspects littering every corner of America. 

8 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Agreed . Way too much focus on labels and words, not enough on ultimately being anti crime and pro law enforcement. 

Perhaps you should read up on this case and the nut job that carried it out. He isn’t from Buffalo or even close by. Buffalo is decidedly Democrat in every sense. You think Buffalo is racist because of a story involving a few       ( probably drunk) idiots in a bar? 

I know.   

 

Not talking about the perp.

Buffalo is decidedly Democrat... But the suburbs and countryside... Conservative...

[ArdmoreRyno]

14 minutes ago, TH3 said:

i dunno ...maybe people who want to own a firemarm prove they are responsible and capable enough to enough to own them and remain accountable for their possesions? 

 

Soooo.... the woman who's been threatened by her ex, of death, has to prove something before she can go buy a revolver to protect herself? Take a class? Wait a month? 

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

12 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, I would not define it that way.  

And this terrorist had too easy of an access to this assault weapon, right? 

How would you define an assault weapon? Also purchases of AR-15's are illegal in NY so define easy? NY has some of the strictest gun laws in the entire country. I'm sure if a criminal wants to break the law they are able to figure out how to do it, yes I agree. That's why I have guns because I know the criminals do too

[ArdmoreRyno]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, I would not define it that way.  

And this terrorist had too easy of an access to this assault weapon, right? 

 

Why not? It has the EXACT same rate of fire as an AR-15. 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I am really not shocked by the deflection, downplaying.  Totally expected the populist right to downplay and deflect. 

 

Same thing with Jan. 6th.  Usual suspects littering every corner of America. 

I know.   

 

Not talking about the perp.

Well no one on this board is downplaying such as heinous crime, the worst in Buffalo history and I believe the first since the City Grill shooting. ( correct me if I’m wrong ). Perpetrated by an outsider in a      (supposedly) racist town. What on earth does this have to do with the Jan 6th mass trespassing in which an unarmed White protester was killed by Capitol Police , pray tell? 

6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Soooo.... the woman who's been threatened by her ex, of death, has to prove something before she can go buy a revolver to protect herself? Take a class? Wait a month? 

 

 

Right? I think TH3s criteria might be good for something like having a child, though. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

How would you define an assault weapon?

 

Also purchases of AR-15's are illegal in NY so define easy? NY has some of the strictest gun laws in the entire country. I'm sure if a criminal wants to break the law they are able to figure out how to do it, yes I agree. That's why I have guns because I know the criminals do too

I'm not sure about the definition exactly, but I don't think that would be a huge problem if they were were to be banned, which they wouldn't be. 

 

And state right's allow people to buy things in one state and use in another, so a federal ban would be better, imo. 

 

My solution would be to allow the makers of guns to be sued for their use in massacres like this . 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Why not? It has the EXACT same rate of fire as an AR-15. 

True. Tibs is right about one thing. He had easy access and shouldn’t have because of NYS Red Flag law. It didn’t do what it was supposed to, and Tibs should be on the phone to legislators through the night to find out why. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Why not? It has the EXACT same rate of fire as an AR-15. 

Good point, and as guns get more lethal, as they will, there might be a need to go after those, too. 

 

Like I said, those victims families should be able to sue the seller, manufacturer and others who got this kid his gun, imo 

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

True. Tibs is right about one thing. He had easy access and shouldn’t have because of NYS Red Flag law. It didn’t do what it was supposed to, and Tibs should be on the phone to legislators through the night to find out why. 

Just let the victims families sue them 

[Boatdrinks]

16 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I am really not shocked by the deflection, downplaying.  Totally expected the populist right to downplay and deflect. 

 

Same thing with Jan. 6th.  Usual suspects littering every corner of America. 

I know.   

 

Not talking about the perp.

Buffalo is decidedly Democrat... But the suburbs and countryside... Conservative...

Some suburbs. Look into it. Anyway what is your point? Again this has never happened here, and the criminal was not from the area. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'm not sure about the definition exactly, but I don't think that would be a huge problem if they were were to be banned, which they wouldn't be. 

 

And state right's allow people to buy things in one state and use in another, so a federal ban would be better, imo. 

 

My solution would be to allow the makers of guns to be sued for their use in massacres like this . 

 

Why exactly? Should the people of Nice, France be allowed to sue Renault?

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

I'm not sure about the definition exactly, but I don't think that would be a huge problem if they were were to be banned, which they wouldn't be. 

 

And state right's allow people to buy things in one state and use in another, so a federal ban would be better, imo. 

 

My solution would be to allow the makers of guns to be sued for their use in massacres like this . 

That's part of what I'm trying to explain is that there isn't an easy way for the federal government to ban them. The wording and definition is everything. If they simply say all assault weapons are banned then that could be all guns, knives, hammers, whatever they want. If they say guns that are semi automatic then that is pretty much all guns. It's not as easy as just don't have whatever gun you or someone else thinks shouldn't be allowed. Even in NY there are loopholes to their AR-15 ban. You can buy them in other states as mentioned, you can build them yourself out of parts, you can make the magazine fixed so it doesn't detach, you can make the stock not adjustable. Clearly it didn't stop this kid from getting one. Even with the automatic ban, pretty much all criminals are able to modify a gun to fire automatic. So now the criminals have automatic weapons and the upstanding citizens trying to protect their families don't. Doesn't seem fair

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Why exactly? Should the people of Nice, France be allowed to sue Renault?

This is one reason why Tibs is such a fool. The gun did what it was supposed to do- the trigger was pulled and it fired. The gun doesn’t know if it’s aimed at a target , a criminal etc. Should a vehicle manufacturer be sued by people whose family members were killed by the nut job who drove through a crowd? Focus on the criminals please! But hey, Libs rarely do. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Boatdrinks

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

This is one reasonwhy Tibs is such a fool. The gun did what it was supposed to do- the trigger was pulled and it fired. The gun doesn’t know if it’s aimed at a target , a criminal etc. Should a vehicle manufacturer be sued by people whose family members were killed by the nut job who drove through a crowd? Focus on the criminals please! But hey, Libs rarely do. 

 

Same thing with knives or hell, hammers. 

 

443 people were killed by hammers in 2019. That's more than killed by ALL rifles the same year. 

[Rockpile233]

I see enough common ground supporting stricter enforcement of red flag laws. I don’t understand how this kid, who was already identified to the point of having mental health professionals opening a case, passed an instant check to purchase a rifle two months ago. That’s a flawed system. He was explicitly threatening this.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Same thing with knives or hell, hammers. 

 

443 people were killed by hammers in 2019. That's more than killed by ALL rifles the same year. 

Wow, I truly didn’t know that. I don’t recall any outrage. Again , lost lives are diminished when we only care about the motives and weapons used. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wow, I truly didn’t know that. I don’t recall any outrage. Again , lost lives are diminished when we only care about the motives and weapons used. 

 

AMEN. Most accurate thing said in this entire post. 

[KDIGGZ]

13 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Same thing with knives or hell, hammers. 

 

443 people were killed by hammers in 2019. That's more than killed by ALL rifles the same year. 

The owners of hammers are clearly racist. My dad used to be a member of the rotary club and he said everyone in the 80's had hammers in their toolbox. Enough said

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

The owners of hammers are clearly racist. My dad used to be a member of the rotary club and he said everyone in the 80's had hammers in their toolbox. Enough said

 

That's what I was worried about. Time to ban hammers... including MC. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

21 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Some suburbs. Look into it. Anyway what is your point? Again this has never happened here, and the criminal was not from the area. 

Never happened in BFLo? Where have you been?

 

The .22 Caliber Killer, 1980 was a racially motivated killing spree in BFLo area. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Christopher

 

"Collin Cole, 37, was attacked in a Buffalo hospital on October 10. A white man matching the description of the .22 Caliber Killer tried to strangle him to death. Cole said the man snarled, "I hate n*****s" at him before trying to kill him. He was saved by the arrival of a nurse, and though severe damage had been done to his throat, he did survive the attack."

[Tiberius]

21 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's part of what I'm trying to explain is that there isn't an easy way for the federal government to ban them. The wording and definition is everything. If they simply say all assault weapons are banned then that could be all guns, knives, hammers, whatever they want. If they say guns that are semi automatic then that is pretty much all guns. It's not as easy as just don't have whatever gun you or someone else thinks shouldn't be allowed. Even in NY there are loopholes to their AR-15 ban. You can buy them in other states as mentioned, you can build them yourself out of parts, you can make the magazine fixed so it doesn't detach, you can make the stock not adjustable. Clearly it didn't stop this kid from getting one. Even with the automatic ban, pretty much all criminals are able to modify a gun to fire automatic. So now the criminals have automatic weapons and the upstanding citizens trying to protect their families don't. Doesn't seem fair

Just let victims sue the gun manufactures and others. Let the courts and juries decide n an individual basis who did something wrong 

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

That's what I was worried about. Time to ban hammers... including MC.