Spitballing on RB target for Bills

[T master]

Given what they have & who is coming out in the draft i think they need to draft one of the backs coming out . There are 2 that i think would be great additions & actually be a different or complimentary back that we need to Motor he IMHO has put him self as the #1 in our backfield so far .

 

The other 2 backs that i would like to see the Bills get & feel they could fall to us in later rounds are either Isaiah Spiller but i think he may not fall into he second round & we don't need a back in the first .

 

But the one back i definitely think will be there in the second & possibly later is the back from Bama in Brian Robinson Jr. he is 6' 1" tall & is 228 lbs & has room to put on some beef & i believe he ran a 4.53 at the combine which is decent speed .

 

Plus last year he put up good numbers 1300+ yards & 14 TDs while running behind the likes of Najay Harris & averaged like 4.9 ypc he comes from a really good program and has the ass to push the pile . Spiller is my first pick but if this guy is there i think he would be a good pick in later rounds .

 

No need for a FA given the cap money left & having the draft maybe after the draft if the Bills don't get who they want but for now i'll be happy waiting .

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, Magnum Force said:

Just for a reference 

40 times

Zack Moss 4.70

Devin Singletary 4.66

Breece Hall 4.39

Kenneth Walker 4.38

Derrick Henry 4.54

Jonathon Taylor 4.39

Christian McCaffery 4.49

 

It’s safe to say this regime doesn’t have a clue on what an elite RB looks like . Just think of all the backs they brought in since they been here all are slow and not very talented. From Tolbert to a old Gore to a Old smaller Gore in Singletary and even to a Older looking Gore in Moss . The Bills are enamored by backs they play like there 60yrs old. Lol.

[Tanoros]

2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Elite Shutdown corner is not a given picking in the late first rd. 

Of course it’s not a given, nothing is. However, I have faith in any corner this front office takes, especially one in the first round (even the end of the first). Even above average or solid corners aren’t cheap these days, so it’s still a considerable savings having a cb on a rookie contract even if they don’t reach elite level. 
 

It really comes down to the Bills FO evaluations, and ROI (return on investment). If two players are graded similarly, the one playing a position offering higher ROI is the one that is taken. When paying top dollar to a qb, we have to have impact players at impact positions on rookie contracts. That’s what will give us the best competitive advantage. 

[newcam2012]

8 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Elite Shutdown corner is not a given picking in the late first rd. 

Agree but we should all know by now that the Bills drafting a RB in the first round would be a big big mistake. The RB value has diminished and the game has changed. Stop the RB talk with pick 25. 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, Tanoros said:

Of course it’s not a given, nothing is. However, I have faith in any corner this front office takes, especially one in the first round (even the end of the first). Even above average or solid corners aren’t cheap these days, so it’s still a considerable savings having a cb on a rookie contract even if they don’t reach elite level. 
 

It really comes down to the Bills FO evaluations, and ROI (return on investment). If two players are graded similarly, the one playing a position offering higher ROI is the one that is taken. When paying top dollar to a qb, we have to have impact players at impact positions on rookie contracts. That’s what will give us the best competitive advantage. 

I agree the Bills have a great eye for talent at the CB position it shows by them using late assets and turning them into players . I really believe the Bills will draft a CB if it looks like Tre is not ready for beginning of the season. But if he is I think there perfectly happy with going with Tre, Dane & Taron as the starters and adding another CB later in the draft to compete with Dane and add depth. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but we should all know by now that the Bills drafting a RB in the first round would be a big big mistake. The RB value has diminished and the game has changed. Stop the RB talk with pick 25. 

 

Yeah I wouldn’t draft a back that high in this draft but like some other posters said here if we can trade back into the early 2nd rd and add another Pk or 2 then I don’t see any problem with them doing so. 
 

My preference would be to trade for Barkley and draft a corner at 25 or even in the 2nd rd depending on who’s there when we pick at 25 .  I would offer two 3rds for Barkley one in 22 and another in 23 I would also throw Singletary in the deal that relives 2.8 mil Singletary is set to make in 2022 and helps us get Barkley under our cap. 

[Tanoros]

13 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I agree the Bills have a great eye for talent at the CB position it shows by them using late assets and turning them into players . I really believe the Bills will draft a CB if it looks like Tre is not ready for beginning of the season. But if he is I think there perfectly happy with going with Tre, Dane & Taron as the starters and adding another CB later in the draft to compete with Dane and add depth. 

I agree, however, it would be so surprising that he would be ready for the start of the season, and the draft is next month. I don’t think they will know one way or another by that time and they have to hedge their bets a bit. To be honest, how they approach cb during the draft will be a big indicator as to how they feel about Tre’s recovery. Because, a healthy Tre and Dane should be fine for outside cb. Although, a stud first round cb sound amazing to pair with Tre. Either way, I’m confident in the approach from our FO. 

[Einstein's Dog]

12 hours ago, Tanoros said:

 

However, now that we have to pay Josh, it’s important to get good ROI, and there is no better way to do that than having positions such as DE, OT, CB on rookie contracts. With all that being said, playmakers trump anything and I’m ok with the Bills taking anyone if they truly believe they will be a playmaker. So if that’s Hall and the Bills staff feels that way so be it, however a tie would have to go to the positions offering more ROI. 

You forgot WR in your list of expensive ROI  picks.  The Bills FO has left the WR3 there for the taking for a rookie (no Sanders or Beas)

 

Unless we're going to take a step backwards we need to have another good WR.  The likes of Crowder or Landry are estimated to cost around $12M.  Having a J Williams or T Burks would be a more cost effective way to address the situation.  Plus you give longer term stability to Josh/Dorsey.  And while many don't think it matters, I think it would be a great gesture to Josh to show the FO is not neglecting the offense  (Green Bay style).  The big FA money went into our defense, it would be add a  nice  element of  balance to have the first round pick go to the offense.

 

For RB, wait it out and get a cheap veteran, plus use a later round, maybe 4, and  get another.  Singletary's contract is coming up in a year and we may have to move on. 

 

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Yeah I wouldn’t draft a back that high in this draft but like some other posters said here if we can trade back into the early 2nd rd and add another Pk or 2 then I don’t see any problem with them doing so. 
 

My preference would be to trade for Barkley and draft a corner at 25 or even in the 2nd rd depending on who’s there when we pick at 25 .  I would offer two 3rds for Barkley one in 22 and another in 23 I would also throw Singletary in the deal that relives 2.8 mil Singletary is set to make in 2022 and helps us get Barkley under our cap. 

That's way too much compensation for Barkley. I'd give them a 3rd and that's being generous. 

[mjt328]

51 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

It’s safe to say this regime doesn’t have a clue on what an elite RB looks like . Just think of all the backs they brought in since they been here all are slow and not very talented. From Tolbert to a old Gore to a Old smaller Gore in Singletary and even to a Older looking Gore in Moss . The Bills are enamored by backs they play like there 60yrs old. Lol.

 

Beane/McDermott just don't value the RB position very highly.

I'm sure they would love to have an elite guy in the backfield.  They just aren't going to spend a high draft pick, or hand-out a big contract to one.

 

It's something very strange to most Buffalo fans.  Just in my lifetime, I've watched three possible Hall of Fame backs play for the team in their prime (Thurman Thomas, Marshawn Lynch, LeSean McCoy).  I've also seen the team draft guys like Willis McGahee and CJ Spiller in the 1st Round.  That's not even mentioning guys like Travis Henry and Fred Jackson, who were very productive in the NFL.

 

 

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You forgot WR in your list of expensive ROI  picks.  The Bills FO has left the WR3 there for the taking for a rookie (no Sanders or Beas)

 

Unless we're going to take a step backwards we need to have another good WR.  The likes of Crowder or Landry are estimated to cost around $12M.  Having a J Williams or T Burks would be a more cost effective way to address the situation.  Plus you give longer term stability to Josh/Dorsey.  And while many don't think it matters, I think it would be a great gesture to Josh to show the FO is not neglecting the offense  (Green Bay style).  The big FA money went into our defense, it would be add a  nice  element of  balance to have the first round pick go to the offense.

 

For RB, wait it out and get a cheap veteran, plus use a later round, maybe 4, and  get another.  Singletary's contract is coming up in a year and we may have to move on. 

 

Right now, the Bills have a HUGE hole at CB. That has to be priority number one in my eyes. Tre is out for awhile and Wallace departed. Teams will exploit the Bills secondary without a doubt. Beane is too smart not to upgrade the position. It's McCreay or Boone in the first. Unless, they get a veteran in the market. 

[Einstein's Dog]

16 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Right now, the Bills have a HUGE hole at CB. That has to be priority number one in my eyes. Tre is out for awhile and Wallace departed. Teams will exploit the Bills secondary without a doubt. Beane is too smart not to upgrade the position. It's McCreay or Boone in the first. Unless, they get a veteran in the market. 

I agree that CB is in need of help.  But I hope they address it with a FA and a high draft pick.  BPA in area of expensive need kind of thing.  If the draft goes in a way that their top tier WRs are gone, CB will probably be the choice.  I am hoping they get a veteran  CB  and use round 1 for one of those top 5 WRs.

[Tanoros]

42 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You forgot WR in your list of expensive ROI  picks.  The Bills FO has left the WR3 there for the taking for a rookie (no Sanders or Beas)

 

Unless we're going to take a step backwards we need to have another good WR.  The likes of Crowder or Landry are estimated to cost around $12M.  Having a J Williams or T Burks would be a more cost effective way to address the situation.  Plus you give longer term stability to Josh/Dorsey.  And while many don't think it matters, I think it would be a great gesture to Josh to show the FO is not neglecting the offense  (Green Bay style).  The big FA money went into our defense, it would be add a  nice  element of  balance to have the first round pick go to the offense.

 

For RB, wait it out and get a cheap veteran, plus use a later round, maybe 4, and  get another.  Singletary's contract is coming up in a year and we may have to move on. 

 

I did leave receiver out, but yes, it’s getting quite expensive for good to decent ones as you alluded too. I fully expect a wr or two in this draft. However, I feel like there are much more good options at wr versus the other positions and because of that alone, I feel their overall value (draft value) is slightly below the other positions I listed. There are so many wr’s all over this draft that seem like they could turn into something special, especially because we have Josh. 
 

It will be interesting to see what we do at wr this draft. Zay was our highest wr selected so far, and that was pre Beane. Since Beane, our highest is Davis in round 4. We did trade a first for Diggs so I suppose that can be counted. Either way, I’m curious if this FO values wr’s less than some of the other premium positions because of the relative wr depth. 

[Solomon Grundy]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjH-Z-ywNf2AhVnk4kEHXCSD70QvOMEKAB6BAgUEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2F5yardrush.co.uk%2Fnfl-draft-profile-breece-hall%2F&usg=AOvVaw3raJoImVpJ23sGyHxBkXiB

[newcam2012]

32 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I agree that CB is in need of help.  But I hope they address it with a FA and a high draft pick.  BPA in area of expensive need kind of thing.  If the draft goes in a way that their top tier WRs are gone, CB will probably be the choice.  I am hoping they get a veteran  CB  and use round 1 for one of those top 5 WRs.

They can go that route too. Depends on who they pick up if anyone and who is on the board as BPA. Either way is fine as long as they plug those two holes. I do see the CB need as more pressing. 

[Einstein's Dog]

26 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

I did leave receiver out, but yes, it’s getting quite expensive for good to decent ones as you alluded too. I fully expect a wr or two in this draft. However, I feel like there are much more good options at wr versus the other positions and because of that alone, I feel their overall value (draft value) is slightly below the other positions I listed. There are so many wr’s all over this draft that seem like they could turn into something special, especially because we have Josh. 
 

It will be interesting to see what we do at wr this draft. Zay was our highest wr selected so far, and that was pre Beane. Since Beane, our highest is Davis in round 4. We did trade a first for Diggs so I suppose that can be counted. Either way, I’m curious if this FO values wr’s less than some of the other premium positions because of the relative wr depth. 

I would certainly hope, and think, the FO values WRs - they haven't shown themselves to be stupid.  They need to invest in the position.  KC has Hill/Kelce/JuJu, Chargers have Keenan/M Williams, Cincy has the rookie/Higgins/Boyd.  We shouldn't be rolling out Diggs and the bargains (4th rd Davis/McKenzie/3rd rd Knox).  We really could use a veteran plus the draft pick.

 

We don't need another "he's good for an "X" rounder type.  We need a 'He's a stud" type, 1st rounder.  J Williams/T Burke.  If the 1st rounder is a somewhat miss, he will still occupy the WR3/4 spot for 3 years.  A $6-$7M dollar slot.  If we miss on CB he will be a backup filling in a $2M slot.

[BuffaloRebound]

I’d trade a 4th rounder for Hunt, maybe even a 3rd if cleveland already paid his $4.95m roster bonus and the Bills are getting Hunt for $1.35m for 1 year.  

[CapeBreton]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but we should all know by now that the Bills drafting a RB in the first round would be a big big mistake. The RB value has diminished and the game has changed. Stop the RB talk with pick 25. 

 

I agree, stop the RB talk at 25. 
 

I doubt any RBs go in the first round and looking at the teams that draft ahead of us in the second round, I bet that one of Walker/Spiller/Hall will be there at 58 because most other teams don’t have a glaring need at RB. If they are really targeting RB, then they can wait. 

[NewEra]

Duke Johnson is my guess

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I would certainly hope, and think, the FO values WRs - they haven't shown themselves to be stupid.  They need to invest in the position.  KC has Hill/Kelce/JuJu, Chargers have Keenan/M Williams, Cincy has the rookie/Higgins/Boyd.  We shouldn't be rolling out Diggs and the bargains (4th rd Davis/McKenzie/3rd rd Knox).  We really could use a veteran plus the draft pick.

 

We don't need another "he's good for an "X" rounder type.  We need a 'He's a stud" type, 1st rounder.  J Williams/T Burke.  If the 1st rounder is a somewhat miss, he will still occupy the WR3/4 spot for 3 years.  A $6-$7M dollar slot.  If we miss on CB he will be a backup filling in a $2M slot.

I’m not trying to say the FO doesn’t value wr, it’s how much they value them is what I’m alluding too. For instance, Beane has made it abundantly clear (in action and statements) that he values (besides qb) the defensive and offensive lines. In other words, every FO has their own strategies and areas emphasis. So i was trying to express that it will be interesting to see how this draft is conducted. We should have a chance at a great wr in the first round, but the last wr heavy draft, the Bills Embed made it quite clear the Bills had G. Davis targeted as a pick well before the draft (note: we did trade a first for Diggs this draft though). 
 

We of course need stud players and wr’s,  but a stud can come from any round in draft. I understand higher round players have better odds of being studs, but depth of a position group has to factor into the decision making process. If for instance, the Bills like many wr’s including guys projected until midway through the draft vs another position group that has less guys the Bills like does it make sense to take a potential stud wr vs a similarly graded potential stud at another position of need? It all comes down to several factors, evaluation of a player (ranking), depth of position in draft, team need at the position, team positional philosophy, personal traits/abilities. 
 

Like i mentioned before, I’d love a wr early in this draft, I just don’t know that it makes the most sense. The argument I’m making is in an attempt to look at/understand the bigger picture (without knowing the Bills FO inner workings) in regards to our team/draft. Having a young stud wr on our offense would be amazing, but that has to be balanced against many other factors. The Bills Super Bowl window is now, and this draft will be so fun/interesting to see which direction the Bills go. I personally wish Tre could play week 1, it would make wr or IOL the easy choice round 1 (in my opinion). 

 

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

57 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Duke Johnson is my guess

What do you think of the pick up?

[Milanos Milano]

How can our front office be so good at drafting CBS but suck so bad at recognizing RB talent? 

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What do you think of the pick up?

I’m meh about it.  For the minimum, it’s a good value and he can be productive.  I understand the pick up.  I think he’s a good insurance policy in case he can’t find another upgrade or the guys they like in the draft see scooper up.  I haven’t watched much of him in recent years other than the highlights I watched this morning.  The highlights were fun.  He’s still got some juice to make people miss and break.  
 

With McKissic, I was hoping he’d be a target on 3rd downs and catch 60 or so passes.  I don’t feel the same way about Duke.  I hope we give Motor the lions share of the touches (pass game included).  I hope we draft someone in the mid rounds to compete with Duke and let the best man win.  Moss may even beat him out for rb2.  
 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

I’m not trying to say the FO doesn’t value wr, it’s how much they value them is what I’m alluding too. For instance, Beane has made it abundantly clear (in action and statements) that he values (besides qb) the defensive and offensive lines. In other words, every FO has their own strategies and areas emphasis. So i was trying to express that it will be interesting to see how this draft is conducted. We should have a chance at a great wr in the first round, but the last wr heavy draft, the Bills Embed made it quite clear the Bills had G. Davis targeted as a pick well before the draft (note: we did trade a first for Diggs this draft though). 
 

We of course need stud players and wr’s,  but a stud can come from any round in draft. I understand higher round players have better odds of being studs, but depth of a position group has to factor into the decision making process. If for instance, the Bills like many wr’s including guys projected until midway through the draft vs another position group that has less guys the Bills like does it make sense to take a potential stud wr vs a similarly graded potential stud at another position of need? It all comes down to several factors, evaluation of a player (ranking), depth of position in draft, team need at the position, team positional philosophy, personal traits/abilities. 
 

Like i mentioned before, I’d love a wr early in this draft, I just don’t know that it makes the most sense. The argument I’m making is in an attempt to look at/understand the bigger picture (without knowing the Bills FO inner workings) in regards to our team/draft. Having a young stud wr on our offense would be amazing, but that has to be balanced against many other factors. The Bills Super Bowl window is now, and this draft will be so fun/interesting to see which direction the Bills go. I personally wish Tre could play week 1, it would make wr or IOL the easy choice round 1 (in my opinion). 

 

Beane has also said that the passing game is the Bills fastball.  Meaning should be the strength.  Each year they added something - first K Benjamin, then J Brown/Beas and last year tried to upgrade- Sanders for Brown.  So far this year they've backtracked - gotten rid of Sanders and Beasley.

 

One advantage of going DL early in the drafts was even if the players selected were somewhat average, they were occupying expensive slots.  The draftees were taking up the $8-10M Trent Murphy, Q Jefferson, V Butler salaries.

 

Now, if they take a shot at WR, pretty high odds he will replace a Sanders/Beas salary/slot of at least $6M.  Riskier to go CB because if he is the backup, they will have only got a $1-2M position filled.  For $3-4M they can get a vet CB.  For $3-4M in WR they get junk, maybe a washed Beas.

 

They already made their Superbowl window move, now they need to keep the future in mind.  A stud WR would accomplish both.  A CB is based on a short term need.

[GreggTX]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:04 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How’s his blocking?

Seriously. People are worrying about replacing Singletary who played well last year. Meanwhile we haven't got 1 starting calibur OL to the right of Morse. Go figure.

[GreggTX]

6 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Beane has also said that the passing game is the Bills fastball.  Meaning should be the strength.  Each year they added something - first K Benjamin, then J Brown/Beas and last year tried to upgrade- Sanders for Brown.  So far this year they've backtracked - gotten rid of Sanders and Beasley.

 

One advantage of going DL early in the drafts was even if the players selected were somewhat average, they were occupying expensive slots.  The draftees were taking up the $8-10M Trent Murphy, Q Jefferson, V Butler salaries.

 

Now, if they take a shot at WR, pretty high odds he will replace a Sanders/Beas salary/slot of at least $6M.  Riskier to go CB because if he is the backup, they will have only got a $1-2M position filled.  For $3-4M they can get a vet CB.  For $3-4M in WR they get junk, maybe a washed Beas.

 

They already made their Superbowl window move, now they need to keep the future in mind.  A stud WR would accomplish both.  A CB is based on a short term need.

Why is CB a short term need? Other than White, there is no outside CB worthy of a starting job on our roster. I'd much rather roll with Davis and Crowder than have Davis' snaps cut yet again and a cavernous hole at CB that teams can exploit. Besides, who is going to replace a 1st round CB in our starting lineup? Jackson? I can't imagine that. Besides, a 1st round CB has a much better chance of starting than a WR with Davis, Diggs, McKenzie and Crowder on the payroll.

Edited March 22, 2022 by GreggTX