sherpa Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Answering nonsense, so... Was the Iraq War a mistake? Of course it was a mistake, and Biden was a huge advocate. I don't blame him. The US and other countries intel concluded that there was a real threat of WMD, with a lunatic at the watch. They were wrong, and there was nothing political about that assessment. It was simply wrong. Still, the reality was that is was not possible to keep enforcing no fly zones and other nonsense regarding Iraq's failure to abide by their ceasefire agreement. Their failure to abide doomed that regime. The US Congress agreed with that assessment, and the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, sherpa said: Of course it was a mistake, and Biden was a huge advocate. I don't blame him. The US and other countries intel concluded that there was a real threat of WMD, with a lunatic at the watch. They were wrong, and there was nothing political about that assessment. It was simply wrong. Still, the reality was that is was not possible to keep enforcing no fly zones and other nonsense regarding Iraq's failure to abide by their ceasefire agreement. Their failure to abide doomed that regime. The US Congress agreed with that assessment, and the rest is history. Bush should have let the inspectors continue the job instead of pulling them out. Bush pulled out the inspectors, Saddam didn't tell them to leave. The intel was hyped. Condi talking about mushroom clouds? No way Saddam was going to make a nuke anytime soon. The mobile weapons labs? That sounded silly at the time and they of course never existed. Colin Powell implied he was lied to about them. The intel was totally hyped. Most Americans believed Saddam had something to do with 9-11. Now where did they get that idea? They simply lied about it. Like Donald Trump level of lying about it. But anyway, WMD was only the reason advanced, because it was the easiest to hype. And even there the politicians pushing for war did not say that there were disagreements, gaps in info and total guess work going on between intelligence agencies. And Bush used that crap about uranium purchases in Africa to build the case for war, but that turned out to be false. He was warned, but stated it anyway in the mad rush to war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Bush should have let the inspectors continue the job instead of pulling them out. Bush pulled out the inspectors, Saddam didn't tell them to leave. The intel was hyped. Condi talking about mushroom clouds? No way Saddam was going to make a nuke anytime soon. The mobile weapons labs? That sounded silly at the time and they of course never existed. Colin Powell implied he was lied to about them. The intel was totally hyped. Most Americans believed Saddam had something to do with 9-11. Now where did they get that idea? They simply lied about it. Like Donald Trump level of lying about it. But anyway, WMD was only the reason advanced, because it was the easiest to hype. And even there the politicians pushing for war did not say that there were disagreements, gaps in info and total guess work going on between intelligence agencies. And Bush used that crap about uranium purchases in Africa to build the case for war, but that turned out to be false. He was warned, but stated it anyway in the mad rush to war Ignorant. So Biden didn't see through this US intel failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 22 hours ago, Tiberius said: Bush should have let the inspectors continue the job instead of pulling them out. Bush pulled out the inspectors, Saddam didn't tell them to leave. The intel was hyped. Condi talking about mushroom clouds? No way Saddam was going to make a nuke anytime soon. The mobile weapons labs? That sounded silly at the time and they of course never existed. Colin Powell implied he was lied to about them. The intel was totally hyped. Most Americans believed Saddam had something to do with 9-11. Now where did they get that idea? They simply lied about it. Like Donald Trump level of lying about it. But anyway, WMD was only the reason advanced, because it was the easiest to hype. And even there the politicians pushing for war did not say that there were disagreements, gaps in info and total guess work going on between intelligence agencies. And Bush used that crap about uranium purchases in Africa to build the case for war, but that turned out to be false. He was warned, but stated it anyway in the mad rush to war The inspectors were not granted the access that was part of the agreement. There were many UN resolutions involving this. There were many cease fire violations. There was the impracticality of a continued demand to maintain a no fly zone, and there were Iraqi offensive efforts within that, and they were increasing. There was the CIA, British intel and a host of others that concluded the same thing. You know.....The "Slam Dunk" from George Tenet. The executive and both houses were briefed on the exact same intel, which was not a White House product or conclusion. The White House doesn't have that ability. Further, and something I am quite sure that you know nothing about, there was a time issue. If sending US troops to battle in the middle east, timing is everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 15, 2022 Author Share Posted September 15, 2022 1 hour ago, sherpa said: The inspectors were not granted the access that was part of the agreement. There were many UN resolutions involving this. There were many cease fire violations. There was the impracticality of a continued demand to maintain a no fly zone, and there were Iraqi offensive efforts within that, and they were increasing. There was the CIA, British intel and a host of others that concluded the same thing. You know.....The "Slam Dunk" from George Tenet. The executive and both houses were briefed on the exact same intel, which was not a White House product or conclusion. The White House doesn't have that ability. Further, and something I am quite sure that you know nothing about, there was a time issue. If sending US troops to battle in the middle east, timing is everything. I would know nothing about? Nice of you to throw a petty insult in. My point was there was hype used. There was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I would know nothing about? Nice of you to throw a petty insult in. My point was there was hype used. There was. It's not petty. It's sincere. You have no idea what intel was presented or where it came from, and the White House did not originate it. They don't have that capability. Both houses of Congress were presented the same info and they voted how they did. It all came from our significant intel "industry," and having no reasonable humint in the middle east, which has been a significant problem for years, they relied way too much on defectors, and they were wrong. You have demonstrated no acknowledgment of understanding that, similar to your "weapon of the week" posts re the Ukraine. If you are insulted by that, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 Quote IZYUM, Ukraine — About 10 days before Ukrainian forces retook the city of Izyum last weekend, Russian troops stationed here were so demoralized that they drafted letters begging their superiors to dismiss them from their roles. The 10 handwritten letters, dated Aug. 30, were left behind in a two-story residential house where Russians were squatting and later found by Ukrainian soldiers who provided the letters to The Washington Post for review. They paint a portrait of dejected troops desperate for rest and concerned about their health and morale after months of fighting. “I refuse to complete my duty in the special operation on the territory of Ukraine due to lack of vacation days and moral exhaustion,” wrote a man who identified himself as the commander of an antiaircraft missile platoon from the Moscow region. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/15/letters-left-behind-by-demoralized-russian-soldiers-they-fled/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/15/letters-left-behind-by-demoralized-russian-soldiers-they-fled/ Wrong - all wrong Tibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, BillStime said: Wrong - all wrong Tibs If we deport anyone it should be this clown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 It is always easy to underestimate the staying power of democracies. They are noisy, contentious and open. They air all their anxieties, doubts and critiques in public. When there is a sense that the struggle is not central or that the goals chosen by leaders are fundamentally flawed — as in Vietnam and Iraq — there are constant calls for course correction. But when the stakes are high and the cause is just, democracies can stay the course. They did it for almost five decades during the Cold War. And they will do it for a couple of winters in this pivotal struggle. By Fareed Zakaria https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/15/ukraine-democracy-society-morale-advantage-russia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, BillStime said: Wrong - all wrong Tibs Tucker is low hanging fruit now. So's his fact-free shill, Doug Macgregor. Don't get all echo chambery dunking on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 Genius? More like mass murdering terrorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Genius? More like mass murdering terrorist Why do you think genius and ethics or morals are related? Putin is a brilliant man, with zero ethics and is willing to do anything to maintain power, including kill his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) On 9/14/2022 at 5:35 PM, Tiberius said: That awkward moment while in prison for speaking out against the war in Ukraine you're recruited to fight in the war in Ukraine. Edited September 17, 2022 by Warcodered 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 19, 2022 Author Share Posted September 19, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 40 minutes ago, B-Man said: Vladimir Putin to Address Russia; Annexation of Ukraine Provinces and Mobilization Seem to Be on the Table https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/09/20/vladimir-putin-to-address-russia-annexation-of-ukraine-provinces-and-mobilization-seem-to-be-on-the-table-n630345 He just keeps digging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Looks like this is far from over with Putin mobilizing an additional 300,000 troops. That man will just not give up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Text of Putin's address. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69390 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said: Looks like this is far from over with Putin mobilizing an additional 300,000 troops. That man will just not give up. Cannon fodder. No more equipment, logistics still totally sucks and moral is and will stay low. What are they going to do with all these untrained men who lack training, officers, NCOs and a way to supply them? Crazy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Cannon fodder. No more equipment, logistics still totally sucks and moral is and will stay low. What are they going to do with all these untrained men who lack training, officers, NCOs and a way to supply them? Crazy. Putin should know he is defeated. Guy is delusional. He should have gave up after the first month. Such a pointless crusade for his country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 UKRAINE WAR: Putin Threatens Nukes, Announces Partial Mobilization. “Putin’s order is already meeting some passive resistance: ‘One-way flights out of Russia were rocketing in price and selling out fast on Wednesday after President Vladimir Putin ordered the immediate call-up of 300,000 reservists.’ How bad is it, really? Well, Moscow just ordered airlines to stop selling tickets to Russian men aged 18 to 65. I guess that means that Putin is considering drafting men up to 65 years of age.” https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2022/09/21/ukraine-war-putin-threatens-nukes-announces-partial-mobilization-n1631016 More : Quick Initial Thoughts On Vladimir’s Speech. https://www.laughingwolf.net/2022/09/21/quick-initial-thoughts-on-vladimirs-speech/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) This is starting to look a little like Vietnam. Another example of a Demented Biden botch job. Up there in front of the UN General Assembly begging for others to help. Soiling himself like a baby. What an embarrassment. What a mess. Edited September 21, 2022 by Irv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Irv said: This is starting to look a little like Vietnam. Another example of a Demented Biden botch job. Up there in front of the UN General Assembly begging for others to help. Soiling himself like a baby. What an embarrassment. What a mess. So you don't know much about Vietnam, huh? Biden is beating down your Putin boy. 🤣 Poor little fascist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 51 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you don't know much about Vietnam, huh? Biden is beating down your Putin boy. 🤣 Poor little fascist Wait…what? Biden? Are we in a war? Since when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Wait…what? Biden? Are we in a war? Since when? @Irv Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 There's something happening here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Ukrainian partisans are back at work assassinating collaborating officials. The Russians seem to using lots of husband-and-wife teams as colonial administrators. There's talk of another encirclement of Russia troops, this time in Lyman. That's coming from both Russian and Ukrainian sources. And there's a video floating around purportedly from an induction center for Russia's recent conscripts. An official there yells that theyre going to be enlisted and get two weeks of training. Which I'm hoping is just Russian misinformation, because 2 weeks of training is meaningless. It's enough time to teach people how to put on their gear, load and fire a weapon, and start improving their fitness. Deploying whole units of these guys to an active part of the front is assisted suicide. Who knows what the plan is for these guys, if there even is a plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Ukrainian partisans are back at work assassinating collaborating officials. The Russians seem to using lots of husband-and-wife teams as colonial administrators. There's talk of another encirclement of Russia troops, this time in Lyman. That's coming from both Russian and Ukrainian sources. And there's a video floating around purportedly from an induction center for Russia's recent conscripts. An official there yells that theyre going to be enlisted and get two weeks of training. Which I'm hoping is just Russian misinformation, because 2 weeks of training is meaningless. It's enough time to teach people how to put on their gear, load and fire a weapon, and start improving their fitness. Deploying whole units of these guys to an active part of the front is assisted suicide. Who knows what the plan is for these guys, if there even is a plan. Not in the least surprising. Hopefully Russians come to their senses and overthrow this tool. In the past I'd always thought him a brilliant autocrat/sociopath . He's lost now. Health? Surrounded by ineptitude? The more the people are put through the meat grinder the higher the chance he eats a bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 23, 2022 Author Share Posted September 23, 2022 50 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Not in the least surprising. Hopefully Russians come to their senses and overthrow this tool. In the past I'd always thought him a brilliant autocrat/sociopath . He's lost now. Health? Surrounded by ineptitude? The more the people are put through the meat grinder the higher the chance he eats a bullet. We can only hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 14 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Not in the least surprising. Hopefully Russians come to their senses and overthrow this tool. In the past I'd always thought him a brilliant autocrat/sociopath . He's lost now. Health? Surrounded by ineptitude? The more the people are put through the meat grinder the higher the chance he eats a bullet. Emphasis on meat for the grinder. The "partial" part of the partial mobilization is pretty much a sham. Russia said they're inducting 300k men, but only men with prior military training and/or combat experience. Their actual goal may be as high as 1.2 million, and they're grabbing anyone. Guys in their 50s and 60s, medical doctors, skilled workers from defense manufacturers, doesn't matter. Check out today's ISW report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 22 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Not in the least surprising. Hopefully Russians come to their senses and overthrow this tool. In the past I'd always thought him a brilliant autocrat/sociopath . He's lost now. Health? Surrounded by ineptitude? The more the people are put through the meat grinder the higher the chance he eats a bullet. If that reaction to the mobilization order is real it's not exactly inspiring, fleeing in droves doesn't exactly sound like they're about to take their country back from a narcissistic sociopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 Russia is so done. A huge number of their young men either dead or gone, wounded and displaced. The oil revenue can only go so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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