report- Empire State Development downtown stadium proposal

[Mr. WEO]

23 hours ago, BillStime said:

Developers like Termini and more recently (and significantly more impressively) Doug Jemal are investing significant funds in downtown Buffalo for years now... it's time the State step up and invest in the City and allow developers (and the region) reap the benefits.

 

Termini: Bills stadium can work successfully in downtown Buffalo

 

 

The state invested in the city.  And developers put their own money at risk on spec.  Why  should taxpayers bail out more bad bets (See Buffalo Billion)?

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 10/7/2021 at 11:17 PM, billsfanmiamioh said:

Buffalo has something maybe 2-4 other teams can claim: a totally unique gameday atmosphere (for better or worse). Build upon it and make it better for the next generation, don’t try and be like the other generic, lame downtown experiences. The best place to make that a reality is OP. 

Have you traveled to Nashville for the “lame” downtown experience? 😂😂

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

As a season ticket holder, our group puts 100% effort into the tailgate experience, and it’s great … at least for the first month or two of the season.  As October rolls into November, the allure of tailgating fades as the game experience becomes more of a “fight the elements” experience, and as you head north of 60 (yes, you youngsters will get there too), the idea of enjoying a good meal and drinks in a warm downtown restaurant before a short walk to enjoy a game in a DOME becomes more and more appealing.  There are game days where you feel like you went a few rounds with Tyson after being in the elements for the better part of eight hours. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by AlCowlingsTaxiService

[Augie]

3 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Have you traveled to Nashville for the “lame” downtown experience? 😂😂

 

You’re probably going to get grief on “we can’t recreate Nashville” from some. We don’t need to recreate Nashville! I loved the experience just for having a nice hotel by the stadium. I didn’t have my fun downtown, other than the hotel bar with Bills fans. Most of my fun was over in The Gulch or by Vanderbilt. 

 

A city like Cincinnati is certainly not Nashville, but I enjoyed the pre-game there. There are hotels and bars in downtown Cincinnati and across the river in KY. Even some nice overpasses to have a dry tailgate in the rain. I was in Denver on a game day, though I was not attending. That seemed like a great setting and I added that to my bucket list. I was staying a few blocks from Soldier Field a couple months ago. While I wasn’t there on a game day, there is plenty around to enjoy. 

 

I feel like I have to cover myself every time saying I don’t care where the stadium goes (in WNY) but don’t just hate a downtown stadium without considering how good it might be, if very different. 

 

 

 

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Edited October 24, 2021 by Augie

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Have you traveled to Nashville for the “lame” downtown experience? 😂😂

 

I have. While I don’t think it’s lame, I do think it’s substandard for locals. Nashville’s stadium situation is fantastic for tourists though.

[BillStime]

You build the stadium closer to the largest growing mega region in the area and it is NOT Orchard Park.

 

Put the stadium downtown - close to hotels and restaurants that bring big dollars and suite purchases with corporate dollars from Southern Ontario.

 

You want a viable Buffalo Bills and forever in WNY - you build downtown - NOT in OP.

 

 

[Augie]

40 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I have. While I don’t think it’s lame, I do think it’s substandard for locals. Nashville’s stadium situation is fantastic for tourists though.

 

“Substandard”? In what way? My son lived there for years. He loved it. Two years ago we took a friend of his friend who has lived there for almost two decades.  HE loves it. You may be reading a bunch of whiney folks on some message board. They will always exist. Having been a homeowner in Nashville and spent considerable time there, I have never heard a single local complain about the stadium or the location. Most people think it’s awesome! People on message boards whine. (I’ll leave it at that.) 

 

It sounds like you don’t like the idea of a stadium outside of OP. This has little or nothing to do with the Nashville stadium, I’m guessing. The huge crowd that drifts over the pedestrian bridge into downtown seriously reduces the traffic out of the parking lots. A piece of cake compared to OP, unless you park in Hamburg. You may have an agenda, but a few whiners that you may have read on a message board is not convincing me of anything.  

 

 

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Edited October 24, 2021 by Augie

[Patience]

2 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

As a season ticket holder, our group puts 100% effort into the tailgate experience, and it’s great … at least for the first month or two of the season.  As October rolls into November, the allure of tailgating fades as the game experience becomes more of a “fight the elements” experience, and as you head north of 60 (yes, you youngsters will get there too), the idea of enjoying a good meal and drinks in a warm downtown restaurant before a short walk to enjoy a game in a DOME becomes more and more appealing.  There are game days where you feel like you went a few rounds with Tyson after being in the elements for the better part of eight hours. 

 

Forget north of 60, I recently hit north of 30 and I agree with all of this.  

[Einstein]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

“Substandard”? In what way? My son lived there for years. He loved it. Two years ago we took a friend of his friend who has lived there for almost two decades.  HE loves it. You may be reading a bunch of whiney folks on some message board. They will always exist. Having been a homeowner in Nashville and spent considerable time there, I have never heard a single local complain about the stadium or the location. Most people think it’s awesome! People on message boards whine. (I’ll leave it at that.) 

 

It sounds like you don’t like the idea of a stadium outside of OP. This has little or nothing to do with the Nashville stadium, I’m guessing. The huge crowd that drifts over the pedestrian bridge into downtown seriously reduces the traffic out of the parking lots. A piece of cake compared to OP, unless you park in Hamburg. You may have an agenda, but a few whiners that you may have read on a message board is not convincing me of anything.  

 

 

.

 

I do not have an agenda. I was pro-Downtown stadium for many years until I went on a nationwide tour of stadiums in the NFL. After seeing so many and all different options and ideas and the impact location had on each… That’s what changed my mind.

 

The #1 reason proponents like the location of the Titans stadium is the closeness to Broadway and bars. With the Titans often having as many away fans as home fans, that’s a big plus. Tourists like to hit the bar before and after.

 

Locals want to go home.

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Locals want to go home.

 

So? The same would be true in Buffalo, or Cincinnati. What’s the point? I’m tired of this, so your answer, if any, may go unanswered. You have yet to make a convincing point. 

 

Your “nationwide tour of stadiums in the NFL” sounds like a few trips to NFL cities. 

[billsfanmiamioh]

12 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Have you traveled to Nashville for the “lame” downtown experience? 😂😂

Yep, sure have. Fun for a once in a while visit. Wouldn’t be my preference for a weekly gameday experience. 

[ehfeuh57]

The fans want the same tailgating experience.

 

Leave it in OP or perhaps even Amherst in a shared UB stadium.

 

Downtown is the worst scenario

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

Yep, sure have. Fun for a once in a while visit. Wouldn’t be my preference for a weekly gameday experience. 

I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration to emphasize that rough “weekly game experience” when we’re talking eight games on average annually (give or take the new 17 game seasons and playoffs) … given that each season ticket holder in our group misses a game for some reason (illness, vacation, family events), I don’t think the demand is that onerous. I can agree that the Nashville model is near perfect for visitors and somewhat less so for home fans 

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, DrDare said:

The fans want the same tailgating experience.

 

Leave it in OP or perhaps even Amherst in a shared UB stadium.

 

Downtown is the worst scenario

What fans want and what Terry needs in the second smallest market to compete and remain viable are two very different things.

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

What fans want and what Terry needs in the second smallest market to compete and remain viable are two very different things.

 

Terry has been able to compete just fine so far.  Building a new stadium downtown for $1B more won't help him at all, unless Buffalo/NYS kicks in the additional $1B, on top of the portion of the $1.4B they were going to already pay.  If they agree, then it goes downtown. 

[Einstein]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

So? The same would be true in Buffalo, or Cincinnati. What’s the point? I’m tired of this, so your answer, if any, may go unanswered. You have yet to make a convincing point. 

 

Your “nationwide tour of stadiums in the NFL” sounds like a few trips to NFL cities. 

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

For those interested, maybe i’ll create a thread sometime with pics of my road trip. It was a great time. I purchased a conversion van with all of the amenities and drove from New York to California, and back. Stopping at every NFL city / stadium along the way.

 

.

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

What fans want and what Terry needs in the second smallest market to compete and remain viable are two very different things.

 

 

How does a downtown stadium give Terry what he needs, in your estimation?

Edited October 24, 2021 by Einstein

[Don Otreply]

23 hours ago, Augie said:

 

You must have a helicopter. I was 12 cars back trying to get into Hammers lot for the opener at 7:12am. At 7:35 we were still 3 cars back when someone intervened by walking into the road and stopping traffic. It took us more than 20 minutes to go about 50 feet.

 

AGAIN, I don’t care where the stadium goes as long as it remains in WNY. But let’s not pretend we don’t have a traffic issue with the lots in OP.  

Yup, Last game I went to, it took 45 plus minutes to get to the highway, and frankly, that’s pretty normal for a large sporting event, OP is a cluster Fuh k of cars with a high percentage  of “legally” inebriated people driving those cars after a game, as Augie said, let’s not pretend it’s something other than what it is…, 👍

 

Go Bills!!!

[Don Otreply]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

For those interested, maybe i’ll create a thread sometime with pics of my road trip. It was a great time. I purchased a conversion van with all of the amenities and drove from New York to California, and back. Stopping at every NFL city / stadium along the way.

 

.

 

How does a downtown stadium give Terry what he needs, in your estimation?

Well…, in that it would go hand in hand with his current portfolio of investments in Buffalo…, not hard to fathom, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Heitz]

On 10/20/2021 at 11:52 AM, LeGOATski said:

What you're seeing in the picture is ETFE plastic. It's transparent, but can be lit up with designs (such as the Zubaz design in the picture)

 

The new LA stadium and Vikings stadium use this. Apparently, it requires very little maintenance and a "low friction coefficient" so that seagull poop will wash off easily: https://www.archpaper.com/2017/03/etfe-stadiums/

 

The Zubaz thing is funny to me because I jokingly predicted this in a previous stadium thread. 
 
https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/233119-edit-total-cost-to-taxpayers-bills-select-sports-firm-to-represent-ownership-in-building-new-open-air-stadium-in-op-targeted-for-2025/?do=findComment&comment=7250597

 

A few years back I had the chance to visit US Bank (Vikings), that stadium is sweeeeeet.  Someone from the org showed me a smaller panel of the roof, like you said it's plastic, but two layers w an air pocket in the middle.  Apparently they can pump air in to crack ice and snow off.  Regardless, it's an impressive building!  W that roof and the giant doors that can swing open, it feels like you're outside.

 

 

I can go either way on the stadium - part of me never wants to leave Hammer's, part of me would love to stay downtown in a hotel for the weekend and walk to and from the game.    I've done a lot of sporting events in cities staying "right there" (including the Bills @ Denver) and it's always been a blast!  Something nice about parking your car (or, better still, not even having one) and just walking, eating, drinking and making merry for a whole weekend...

 

Looking at that location of the stadium I can see events in Conway park, Resurgence and Hartman's will be popping, Canalside would be a whole deal I'm sure, the Casino if that's your thing.  IDK, it'd be waaaay different, but pretty fun to think about!  Oh yeah, traffic would be a mess, but as mentioned, I'll be in a hotel.  

 

And I still think the tailgate would live on - why would it not?  I mean, people with stadiums in cities tailgate and have fun too - we grilled, drank, threw the football, played music, etc. all in the shadow of Heinz Field (no relation).  It wasn't same as staying in an RV in OP from Friday - Monday, but what is?  Pretty sure the resourceful tailgaters of Buffalo will figure it out...

[Doc]

Would anyone stop going to games if there were no tailgating (allowed)?  Doubtful. I don’t think it enters into the equation at all, and if it cuts down on drunk driving leaving the stadium, so much the better.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Doc