The Athletic All-22 Review - Bills/WFT

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Edmunds low number of passes defensed does fit the above narrative that his coverage dissuades throws in his direction.  Simply less opportunities to make a play because the QB chooses to throw it elsewhere. Will continue to look for that during the games.  

 

 

Josh said he doesn’t throw to area 49 in practice because of his coverage abilities 

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Gotta give props to Vernon Butler, as well (who I'm no fan of). He tried to run down Heinicke well beyond the pocket more than once, all the way to the sideline. That's a big fella to be doing all that sprinting! I don't think he ever felt he was going to catch the guy, but recognized that Heinicke on the run could not complete passes the way Josh can.

94 is always chasing someone downfield because he’s never in the opponents backfield. 😏

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

This week I do not agree with Joe.

 

You shouldn't have agreed with him last week, either

 

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i admire him trying, but in the past, I found his All-22 reviews to be riddled with mistakes and bad takes, often contradicting the majority of other pundits’ same film review. 

He's been doing this long enough that he can make it sound like he knows what he's talking about.

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Edmunds low number of passes defensed does fit the above narrative that his coverage dissuades throws in his direction.  Simply less opportunities to make a play because the QB chooses to throw it elsewhere. Will continue to look for that during the games.  

 

 

His coverage is the whole reason they drafted him for their zone defense. This has been the narrative for the last 3 years...

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Saying things like this can get you beaten up in these parts.

 

I am sure their limp noodles are not as bad as we here.

 

 

Quote

 The Bills are the only team to have allowed a pressure rate of over 37 percent and still won the game. 

 

Maybe like Allen's other ratings maybe this formula is inaccurate too.

Allen is not under pressure like other QBs.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

As usual Joe Buscaglia kills it with his all-22 analysis. I won't paste the whole thing but here are some snippets:

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades:

1) Josh Allen

2) Micah Hyde

3) Emmanuel Sanders

4) Cole Beasley

5) Tre'Davious White

 

Bottom 5 grades (worst to 5th worst):

1) Cody Ford

2) Mario Addison

3) Jerry Hughes

4) AJ Epenesa

5) Ed Oliver

 

I think the oline is getting socks for Christmas this year

 

[timekills17]

15 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

I would have picked an OL seeing as how we were up against the wtf DL.... Maybe Dion?

 

As I said earlier, Ford is a concern moving forward after that game....

 

Read somewhere (*cough*) - and again, these stats are subjective, but at least they're measured consistently - that "Washington pressured the Bills on 40.4 percent of the 47 passing snaps, the sixth-highest single-game pressure percentage this season. The Bills are the only team to have allowed a pressure rate of over 37 percent and still won the game."

 

So even the best OL wasn't great, if you buy into that.

Edited September 30, 2021 by timekills17

[Max Fischer]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i admire him trying, but in the past, I found his All-22 reviews to be riddled with mistakes and bad takes, often contradicting the majority of other pundits’ same film review. 

Name a few

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

Name a few

Last week's "Josh Allen needs to work on his footwork" was a doozy.

 

2019 is calling and they want their analysis back...

 

Meanwhile, other pundits were correctly saying that Josh and Daboll simply need to scheme up quicker passes and Josh was saying himself that he needs to get off his first read faster (which they did against WFT to great success). A pundit like Joe Marino, who was saying the problems were all mental and scheme-related. 100% right.

 

It was never about improving footwork 🙄

 

Joe simply regurgitates cliche topics that he's been saving in his back pocket for years. He writes a fine enough column for the basic purpose of getting an NFL fan their fix.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Last week's "Josh Allen needs to work on his footwork" was a doozy.

 

2019 is calling and they want their analysis back...

 

Meanwhile, other pundits were correctly saying that Josh and Daboll simply need to scheme up quicker passes and Josh was saying himself that he needs to get off his first read faster (which they did against WFT to great success). A pundit like Joe Marino, who was saying the problems were all mental and scheme-related. 100% right.

 

It was never about improving footwork 🙄

 

Joe simply regurgitates cliche topics that he's been saving in his back pocket for years. He writes a fine enough column for the basic purpose of getting an NFL fan their fix.

 

I disagree it was not about footwork. Josh's feet were a lot better on Sunday he was much less fidgety, he stopped looking at the rush, stood in the pocket and made throws. Now you might call that mental first and feet second, but it was both of those more than scheme IMO. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree it was not about footwork. Josh's feet were a lot better on Sunday he was much less fidgety, he stopped looking at the rush, stood in the pocket and made throws. Now you might call that mental first and feet second, but it was both of those more than scheme IMO. 

It was absolutely scheme and mentality first. By far. No question. Josh didn't need to work on footwork. When established QBs like Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, etc have a bad game plan, get pressured, and have a crappy game no one is questioning their footwork. Their footwork sucked as a result of the aforementioned failings. They're not going back to their footwork fundamentals.

 

That analysis was a day late and a dollar short. Just a regurgitated cliche from Allen's first few years. We're past that now.

[ColoradoBills]

15 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

I agree here - the D line was slow off the ball.  A lot of talk about rushing the passer with new players but it's still a problem.

 

I wouldn't call it a problem nor would I say it's a strength.  With the combination of elder players getting slower and the young guys

needed to learn more it's a work in progress.  There are some hopeful signs.  There will be great games this year along with not so good games.

IMO.

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It was absolutely scheme and mentality first. By far. No question. Josh didn't need to work on footwork. When established QBs like Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, etc have a bad game plan, get pressured, and have a crappy game no one is questioning their footwork. Their footwork sucked as a result of the aforementioned failings. They're not going back to their footwork fundamentals.

 

That analysis was a day late and a dollar short. Just a regurgitated cliche from Allen's first few years. We're past that now.

 

Disagree. He was not setting his feet, he was not stepping into his throws and it was causing some of the misses. The rush had got into his head. It happens to QBs, especially young ones, when their oline stinks it up like the Bills did week 1. If people were trying to make more of a longer term point about as in "oh dear, his footwork has regressed" then I think it is fair to say that was a lazy overreaction. I was never concerned that it was actually a regression. It was just a QB who had lost a bit of trust in his line and was fidgety with his feet as a consequence. I was certain he would settle down, clear his head and go back to being Josh Allen. But anyone saying that the footwork was causing misses in the first two weeks is 100% spot on. It was. The evidence is there on the film.

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But anyone saying that the footwork was causing misses in the first two weeks is 100% spot on. It was. The evidence is there on the film.

 

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you watch the Cover 1 breakdown of the WFT game, Allen made a lot of throws with less than ideal footwork and mechanics. Perfect footwork is somewhat overrated in the NFL. QBs don't always have the opportunity to set their feet. For Allen it is more about confidence and rhythm than footwork and mechanics IMO.

[LeGOATski]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree. He was not setting his feet, he was not stepping into his throws and it was causing some of the misses. The rush had got into his head. It happens to QBs, especially young ones, when their oline stinks it up like the Bills did week 1. If people were trying to make more of a longer term point about as in "oh dear, his footwork has regressed" then I think it is fair to say that was a lazy overreaction. I was never concerned that it was actually a regression. It was just a QB who had lost a bit of trust in his line and was fidgety with his feet as a consequence. I was certain he would settle down, clear his head and go back to being Josh Allen. But anyone saying that the footwork was causing misses in the first two weeks is 100% spot on. It was. The evidence is there on the film.

Go ahead and say "footwork was causing misses" about any QB who's struggling with the strategy and pressure, then. Mahome's footwork has been poor, leading to inaccurate throws and INTs the past couple of games. 

 

Of course, it's not an actual problem. It's a symptom of the problem.

 

Joe B was presenting it as an actual problem and was obviously completely wrong.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Go ahead and say "footwork was causing misses" about any QB who's struggling with the strategy and pressure, then. Mahome's footwork has been poor, leading to inaccurate throws and INTs the past couple of games. 

 

 

Mahomes's footwork was horrible in the Superbowl. It was the same issue. The rush got in his head early, he stopped setting his feet, his footwork (which was my knock on Mahomes coming out) went to pot and the ball got away from him too often. 

 

It happens to Quarterbacks when they are getting rushed. The clock in their head gets thrown off and it affects mechanics. 

 

This isn't something I only ever said about Josh Allen. I was the first one back in 2019 on this board to say Carson Wentz's footwork is a mess and he is missing throws because of his feet. His problem became endemic. I never thought it was going to get to that point with Josh, but if you wanna be a consistently accurate Quarterback in the NFL your feet have to be consistent and repeatable. They don't have to be textbook perfect. But they can't be fidgety or inconsistent down to down. Once you get there you are in trouble. Whoever you are.

[Cash]

6 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Go ahead and say "footwork was causing misses" about any QB who's struggling with the strategy and pressure, then. Mahome's footwork has been poor, leading to inaccurate throws and INTs the past couple of games. 

 

Of course, it's not an actual problem. It's a symptom of the problem.

 

Joe B was presenting it as an actual problem and was obviously completely wrong.

 

Eh.  Maybe, maybe not.  I'm not gonna pretend to know the ins and outs of QB coaching, but it's plausible to me that doing a couple of drills to focus on footwork while specifically under pressure or on the move might be exactly what Allen needed.  I don't think Joe B knows the ins and outs of QB coaching either, and I think he would admit that.  So for me, I think it's fair for him to ID footwork as a direct cause of the problem and say that Allen needs to work on that.  From the outside looking in, it's hard to get more specific in terms of how to fix that problem, but it's still fair to say that it needs to be fixed.  I didn't get the vibe from Joe B's article that he was getting into the specifics of how to fix - just identifying what needed to be fixed.

 

Whatever it was that Allen needed, it looks like that's exactly what he did, so I'm happy.  I think the most important aspect of a winning organization is that everyone on the team (including coaches) learns from their mistakes/failures and uses those lessons learned to get better.

[LeGOATski]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mahomes's footwork was horrible in the Superbowl. It was the same issue. The rush got in his head early, he stopped setting his feet, his footwork (which was my knock on Mahomes coming out) went to pot and the ball got away from him too often. 

 

It happens to Quarterbacks when they are getting rushed. The clock in their head gets thrown off and it affects mechanics. 

 

This isn't something I only ever said about Josh Allen. I was the first one back in 2019 on this board to say Carson Wentz's footwork is a mess and he is missing throws because of his feet. His problem became endemic. I never thought it was going to get to that point with Josh, but if you wanna be a consistently accurate Quarterback in the NFL your feet have to be consistent and repeatable. They don't have to be textbook perfect. But they can't be fidgety or inconsistent down to down. Once you get there you are in trouble. Whoever you are.

Exactly. And no pundit was writing articles about Mahome's problem being his footwork, like Joe B did (I keep having to circle back to the point of all this being last week's inaccurate article). Footwork isn't the problem, it's a symptom.

 

Consistently accurate QBs don't lose that reputation when their footwork struggles under pressure. They fix the real problem (tactics/mentality; maybe personnel) and go back to what they were doing.

48 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

Eh.  Maybe, maybe not.  I'm not gonna pretend to know the ins and outs of QB coaching, but it's plausible to me that doing a couple of drills to focus on footwork while specifically under pressure or on the move might be exactly what Allen needed.  I don't think Joe B knows the ins and outs of QB coaching either, and I think he would admit that.  So for me, I think it's fair for him to ID footwork as a direct cause of the problem and say that Allen needs to work on that.  From the outside looking in, it's hard to get more specific in terms of how to fix that problem, but it's still fair to say that it needs to be fixed.  I didn't get the vibe from Joe B's article that he was getting into the specifics of how to fix - just identifying what needed to be fixed.

 

Whatever it was that Allen needed, it looks like that's exactly what he did, so I'm happy.  I think the most important aspect of a winning organization is that everyone on the team (including coaches) learns from their mistakes/failures and uses those lessons learned to get better.

Could be, but that wasn't their main focus. As Josh himself said last week, his focus was getting the ball out quicker.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Exactly. And no pundit was writing articles about Mahome's problem being his footwork, like Joe B did (I keep having to circle back to the point of all this being last week's inaccurate article). Footwork isn't the problem, it's a symptom.

 

Consistently accurate QBs don't lose that reputation when their footwork struggles under pressure. They fix the real problem (tactics/mentality; maybe personnel) and go back to what they were doing.

 

But Joe was right, footwork was causing misses. You seem to have a hang up that nobody says that about other QBs and feel Josh was being singled out. It's not true. You just don't read all22 breakdowns of all 32 teams each week. 

 

Nobody was suggesting Josh should lose his reputation. Indeed most sensible people were saying slow down, he just needs to relax and settle down, trust his guys up front, and the footwork will sort itself out. 

[WotAGuy]

The Bills are 2-0 in the last two games Mowins has called, so there’s that!

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But Joe was right, footwork was causing misses. You seem to have a hang up that nobody says that about other QBs and feel Josh was being singled out. It's not true. You just don't read all22 breakdowns of all 32 teams each week. 

 

Nobody was suggesting Josh should lose his reputation. Indeed most sensible people were saying slow down, he just needs to relax and settle down, trust his guys up front, and the footwork will sort itself out. 

I haven't said that at all and am not worried about that. Joe B made footwork the main point of his article as the main problem, and he was wrong. That's what I've been saying this whole time.

 

It's a losing argument to say otherwise, which I assume is why you now want to portray me as being "hung up" on something else.

 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But Joe was right, footwork was causing misses. You seem to have a hang up that nobody says that about other QBs and feel Josh was being singled out. It's not true. You just don't read all22 breakdowns of all 32 teams each week. 

 

Nobody was suggesting Josh should lose his reputation. Indeed most sensible people were saying slow down, he just needs to relax and settle down, trust his guys up front, and the footwork will sort itself out. 

I think the disconnect here might be that he didn't have bad footwork because he has bad footwork, he had bad footwork because he didn't/wasn't put in a position to use his good footwork well enough.