Honest discussion about racism (non political)

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Bidens_basement said:

You have to admit that you are a product of white privilege. You’ve had opportunities handed to you based solely on the color of your skin. 
You have benefited greatly from your racist upbringing, yet you refuse to admit it. Are you suffering from white guilt?

Are you admitting that black people face racism that has held them back? 

[Westside]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Are you admitting that black people face racism that has held them back? 

Are you admitting that you profited off your white privilege?

[Tiberius]

15 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Are you admitting that you profited off your white privilege?

I profited from being in the USA, yes. You can’t admit racism held back black people? Seriously? 

 

If my dad had been black we would would not of had the same opportunities. How about you? 

 

 

[Westside]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I profited from being in the USA, yes. You can’t admit racism held back black people? Seriously? 

 

If my dad had been black we would would not of had the same opportunities. How about you? 

 

 

Are you suggesting that black people today are still enslaved?

How far back in time should we go? Are you responsible for your ancestors actions?

You’ve already admitted to profiting off your white privilege, what are you doing to repent from your racist sins besides posting on a message board?

[Chef Jim]

57 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You would? Why is that? Are you oppressed? 

 

Age ya dummy. And people my age are discriminated against all the time.  How many times have I heard that the world will be a better place when all the boomers die.  Am I oppressed?  Not sure. Define oppression. Personally I feel ***** great and am so happy I’m the age I am and that I’m about to retire early. 
 

Your life is what you make it even with outside influences.  If more people took this attitude there’s be a lot less whining from the likes of you. 

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I profited from being in the USA, yes. You can’t admit racism held back black people? Seriously? 

 

If my dad had been black we would would not of had the same opportunities. How about you? 

 

 

How about today. So those things still exist to the extent they did 50/100 plus years ago?  

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

You would? Why is that? Are you oppressed? 

You have to admit that slavery and Jim Crow were systems, right? And those systems relied or were supported by racism, right? 

You're making my point for me.  Those systems no longer exist.  In 2021 what is systemic?  This is about what is happening now.  That's all I'm asking.  For somebody to objectively define what hard numbers and objective information they're pointing to when they voice a systemic perspective about present day life and race relations in America 2021.  

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tiberius]

30 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Age ya dummy. And people my age are discriminated against all the time.  How many times have I heard that the world will be a better place when all the boomers die.  Am I oppressed?  Not sure. Define oppression. Personally I feel ***** great and am so happy I’m the age I am and that I’m about to retire early. 
 

Your life is what you make it even with outside influences.  If more people took this attitude there’s be a lot less whining from the likes of you. 

How about today. So those things still exist to the extent they did 50/100 plus years ago?  

The government takes care of old people better than anyone. And no, things have gotten better. But historic racism has left its mark. Look at all the black people in poverty. That’s the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. 

4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You're making my point for me.  Those systems no longer exist.  In 2021 what is systemic?  This is about what is happening now.  That's all I'm asking.  For somebody to objectively define what hard numbers and objective information they're pointing to when they voice a systemic perspective.  

 

But history matters. My dad had a good job, if he had been black he wouldn’t have had a good job in all probability. 

34 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Are you suggesting that black people today are still enslaved?

How far back in time should we go? Are you responsible for your ancestors actions?

You’ve already admitted to profiting off your white privilege, what are you doing to repent from your racist sins besides posting on a message board?

No, but that people were oppressed in the past affects people today. 

[Jauronimo]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:46 PM, Beach said:

are you saying there are current "establishment of laws and social structures implemented to benefit white people."?

Its not just laws we need to focus on but the differential treatment of people under the same laws.  Look at the disparity in sentencing by race and gender.  In the NFL, the rule book is the same for all teams. But if we had to play the Patriots 16 times a year with Walt Coleman calling the games, an impartial rule book doesn't mean the game is fair.

 

This is just one example.

 

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing

[Westside]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

The government takes care of old people better than anyone. And no, things have gotten better. But historic racism has left its mark. Look at all the black people in poverty. That’s the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. 

But history matters. My dad had a good job, if he had been black he wouldn’t have had a good job in all probability. 

No, but that people were oppressed in the past affects people today. 

What have you done personally to give back to POC after living a privileged life?

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not just laws we need to focus on but the differential treatment of people under the same laws.  Look at the disparity in sentencing by race and gender.  In the NFL, the rule book is the same for all teams. But if we had to play the Patriots 16 times a year with Walt Coleman calling the games, an impartial rule book doesn't mean the game is fair.

 

This is just one example.

 

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing

I wonder if past record plays into longer sentences. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

 

I wonder if past record plays into longer sentences. 

They seem to avoid that analysis by being extra specific.  🤔 wonder why? 

 

Quote

Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing.Black male offenders received sentences on average 20.4 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders, accounting for violence in an offender’s past in fiscal year 2016, the only year for which such data is available. This figure is almost the same as the 20.7 percent difference without accounting for past violence. Thus, violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to contribute to the sentence imposed to any extent beyond its contribution to the offender’s criminal history score determined under the sentencing guidelines.

 

[Jauronimo]

22 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Oh come on. Just last night you claimed blacks were ‘targeted’ during the mortgage crisis. You seem to be cherry picking now.

Predatory lenders targeted minority neighborhoods.  This is well documented.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-foreclosures-race/racial-predatory-loans-fueled-u-s-housing-crisis-study-idUSTRE6930K520101004

 

https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/unequal_full.pdf

11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

They seem to avoid that analysis by being extra specific.  🤔 wonder why? 

 

 

They specifically address violent backgrounds in the analysis.  

[Governor]

18 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Hate in the individual isn't required for the system work unfairly. 

 

Algorithms can execute discriminatory policies without the capacity to feel, let alone hate. 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, you can tell yourself that. There's virtually no evidence to back that up. If there is I'd love to read it. 

You can start here.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-tax-code-helps-white-people-get-richer/ar-BB1fRrMx

[Beach]

23 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not just laws we need to focus on but the differential treatment of people under the same laws.  Look at the disparity in sentencing by race and gender.  In the NFL, the rule book is the same for all teams. But if we had to play the Patriots 16 times a year with Walt Coleman calling the games, an impartial rule book doesn't mean the game is fair.

 

This is just one example.

 

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing

since you bring up 1 referee, i would prefer to see 1 judge's record to see if he/she sentences equally or not.

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, Beach said:

since you bring up 1 referee, i would prefer to see 1 judge's record to see if he/she sentences equally or not.

Ok

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Predatory lenders targeted minority neighborhoods.  This is well documented.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-foreclosures-race/racial-predatory-loans-fueled-u-s-housing-crisis-study-idUSTRE6930K520101004

 

https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/unequal_full.pdf

They specifically address violent backgrounds in the analysis.  

Yes not ‘all priors’, just specifically prior violent crime.  I believe however all prior criminal history is considered in sentencing, Isn’t it? Maybe not, but I always thought so. 
 

They also omit from key findings summary  that in the full report they establish statistically women receive far less time then men, and under 25 yo far more time than over 25.

and no doubt predatory lenders are a real legitimate problem as you cite. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Beach]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Ok

if there is evidence of a judge giving harsher sentences to a certain group of people that have similar priors than a different group of people, then i would wonder why that judge still has a job.  

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yes not ‘all priors’, just specifically prior violent crime.  I believe however all prior criminal history is considered in sentencing, Isn’t it? Maybe not, but I always thought so. 
 

They also omit from key findings summary  that in the full report they establish statistically women receive far less time then men, and under 25 yo far more time than over 25.
 

 

 

What are you talking about?  That finding is clearly stated in the summary.  Its #4.

 

Quote

Female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, as they had for the prior four periods. The differences in sentence length decreased slightly during the five-year period after the 2012 Booker Report for most offenders. The differences in sentence length fluctuated across all time periods studied for White females, Black females, Hispanic females, and Other Race female offenders.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Jauronimo

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

What are you talking about?  That finding is clearly stated in the summary.

 

 

Missed it, 25 yo and citizen vs non was summarized as well? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Beach said:

if there is evidence of a judge giving harsher sentences to a certain group of people that have similar priors than a different group of people, then i would wonder why that judge still has a job.  

This is a fantastic thought. Since I personally view prejudice as an problem among individuals not a pervasive systemic issue, no one should have a problem looking at it by individual judge. If there is true a systemic issue, every judge should fail this test, correct? 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Missed it, 25 yo and citizen vs non was summarized as well? 

Maybe reading the text and thinking about the facts presented for more than a minute would be more fruitful than crying "political agenda!" after a cursory scan of new information.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

31 minutes ago, Governor said:

You can start here.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-tax-code-helps-white-people-get-richer/ar-BB1fRrMx

I hope everyone in this thread reads this article. 

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Maybe reading the text and thinking about the facts presented for more than a minute would be more fruitful than crying "political agenda!" after a cursory scan of new information.  

No i actually read the detailed report. So in conclusion they didn’t establish age bias as a key finding right? 
 

and all prior criminal history is omitted, that is illogical.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, Bidens_basement said:

You have to admit that you are a product of white privilege. You’ve had opportunities handed to you based solely on the color of your skin. 
You have benefited greatly from your racist upbringing, yet you refuse to admit it. Are you suffering from white guilt?

 

Are you saying there are no privileges associated with being a minority or defined as a protected class?

 

What system is affirmative action?

 

Do you feel minority guilt for being a benefactor of job or education opportunities based solely on ethnicity?

 

What responsibility and/or accountability do minorities have towards their own success closing the education and wealth achievement gaps?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

That’s to me the real frustration of this whole systemic boogie man. It’s blaming everyone and no one at the same time and as a result frames a problem without a solution. 
 

The naive that mean well miss that this narrative is a divisive political instrument.
 

The power mongers are happy to ignite a race war if polarization rallies up the votes they need. 

exactly- please try immersing yourself in diversity and stop letting politicians tell you how your world works. See it with your own eyes. Ask and learn. Stop believing cheap flimsy narratives.  Free you mind, and the rest will follow. 

 

Here's an alternative hypothesis. Your refusal to to look at the objective and measurable aspects of the economic and legal ways that systemic racism has in the past and continues in the present to negatively impact black people, while pretending that it is all subjective liberal drivel, is endemic of your inability to separate your personal feelings and refusal to be blamed from the actual facts of the matter. 

 

You pay taxes, you refuse to be responsible for anyones poor choices. Therefore there is no way that you are responsible for unequal application of economic and legal treatment of anyone else. Therefore it must not exist, and to suggest that anyone is owed anything for tangible, measure harms is trying to stoke a race war... Ok, got it. 

 

"try immersing yourself in diversity and stop letting politicians tell you how your world works. See it with your own eyes. Ask and learn. Stop believing cheap flimsy narratives.  Free you mind, and the rest will follow."

 

From the guy who thinks none of the discrimination of the 19th or 20th century has any impact on the lives of people today and blames the entirety of the wealth gap on unwed black mothers, you should learn to take your own advice.  

 

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

The government takes care of old people better than anyone. And no, things have gotten better. But historic racism has left its mark. Look at all the black people in poverty. That’s the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. 

 

 

How is the government taking care of me better than ANYONE? 

 

So at what point of "diminishing returns" does the effect of things such as slavery and Jim Crowe no longer have an effect on POC?  

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

But history matters. My dad had a good job, if he had been black he wouldn’t have had a good job in all probability. 

 

So black people (in all probability) didn't have good jobs back then (whenever that was).  Racist much?  

Edited June 28, 2021 by Chef Jim

[WideNine]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Here's an alternative hypothesis. Your refusal to to look at the objective and measurable aspects of the economic and legal ways that systemic racism has in the past and continues in the present to negatively impact black people, while pretending that it is all subjective liberal drivel, is endemic of your inability to separate your personal feelings and refusal to be blamed from the actual facts of the matter. 

 

You pay taxes, you refuse to be responsible for anyones poor choices. Therefore there is no way that you are responsible for unequal application of economic and legal treatment of anyone else. Therefore it must not exist, and to suggest that anyone is owed anything for tangible, measure harms is trying to stoke a race war... Ok, got it. 

 

"try immersing yourself in diversity and stop letting politicians tell you how your world works. See it with your own eyes. Ask and learn. Stop believing cheap flimsy narratives.  Free you mind, and the rest will follow."

 

From the guy who thinks none of the discrimination of the 19th or 20th century has any impact on the lives of people today and blames the entirety of the wealth gap on unwed black mothers, you should learn to take your own advice.  

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see how any of the above blame-game goes beyond the psychology of guilt and some kind of attempt at a never-ending application of original sin.

 

How does any of that lead to an actual plan to help close the education gaps seen with black men?

 

Black men trail all ethnic groups as well as black women in completing HS education.

 

Education has proven to be the best indicator for increasing wealth, wealth increases societal influence...

 

There is no magic wand that makes the world a fair place, but education is the best way to level the playing field.

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

34 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I hope everyone in this thread reads this article. 

No i actually read the detailed report. So in conclusion they didn’t establish age bias as a key finding right? 
 

and all prior criminal history is omitted, that is illogical.

What part of the below text from key findings says to you that prior criminal history was omitted?

 

Quote

• Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing. Black male offenders received sentences on average 20.4 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders, accounting for violence in an offender’s past in fiscal year 2016, the only year for which such data is available. This figure is almost the same as the 20.7 percent difference without accounting for past violence. Thus, violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to contribute to the sentence imposed to any extent beyond its contribution to the offender’s criminal history score determined under the sentencing guidelines

 

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I don't see how any of the above blame-game goes beyond the psychology of guilt and some kind of attempt at a never-ending application of original sin.

 

How does any of that lead to an actual plan to help close the education gaps seen with black men?

 

Black men trail all ethnic groups as well as black women in completing HS education.

 

Education has proven to be the best indicator for increasing wealth, wealth increases societal influence...

 

There is no magic wand that makes the world a fair place, but education is the best way to level the playing field.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes! I can not agree with the second half of your statement more. So we actually agree on a solution. 

 

I do believe in reparations, and think that black Americans who were descendants of enslaved people should have guaranteed federally subsidized college education at state or community colleges for the next 100 years.  And I think we as a nation can pay for that program with a federal tax on recreational and medical marijuana. 

 

Think of the hope and belief in the future that would be instilled in our nation's children. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Motorin'

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes! I can not agree with the second half of your statement more. So we actually agree on a solution. 

 

I do believe in reparations, and think that black Americans who were descendants of enslaved people should have guaranteed federally subsidized college education at state or community colleges for the next 100 years.  And I think we as a nation can pay for that program with a federal tax on recreational and medical marijuana. 

 

Think of the hope and belief in the future that would be instilled in our nation's children. 

 

Regarding the bolded part.  How do you plan on going about determining if the black person you're wanting to have tax payers pay for their education was actually a descendant of enslaved persons?   And why marijuana?  Was I missing some sarcasm in your post? 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yes! I can not agree with the second half of your statement more. So we actually agree on a solution. 

 

I do believe in reparations, and think that black Americans who were descendants of enslaved people should have guaranteed federally subsidized college education at state or community colleges for the next 100 years.  And I think we as a nation can pay for that program with a federal tax on recreational and medical marijuana. 

 

Think of the hope and belief in the future that would be instilled in our nation's children. 

 

So your policy take is continued affirmative action towards education. That is a good place to start as I believe in investing in our youth.

 

As with all policies and reparations I do believe that we have to be responsible and ensure that they are prescriptive and working - fit for their intended purpose.

 

Have the reparations made to date been effective at closing the education gap?

 

My family moved to an affluent community in MN partly because of the school system. I assumed they were the recipient of more funding because their composite test scores led the state.

 

I was surprised to learn that the N. Central school which was primarily comprised of black students and had less overall students had nearly double the state and federal funding yet was dragging the bottom in test scores and having kids stay through graduation.

 

Clearly reparations in the form of tax money investment was not the panacea that many assume leads automatically to successful outcomes in education.

 

Which begs the question, what can and will work to help close the education gap?

 

 

 

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Regarding the bolded part.  How do you plan on going about determining if the black person you're wanting to have tax payers pay for their education was actually a descendant of enslaved persons?   And why marijuana?  Was I missing some sarcasm in your post? 

 

No sarcasm. I am not an expert in genealogy, but there are detailed records of who was owned in the censuses going way back and there are detailed birth records. The 3/5th compromise was so that slave holding states could get more representation, so they made sure to document their population.  Let's assume it is possible. 

 

And I think tax on cannabis as it is being legalized is a huge untapped revenue source, and at the same time most white Americans who would object to giving black people reparations would not be taxed for it (unless they choose to buy pot.)

Edited June 28, 2021 by Motorin'

[Chef Jim]

17 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

No sarcasm. I am not an expert in genealogy, but there are detailed records of who was owned in the censuses going way back and there are detailed birth records. The 3/5th compromise was so that slave holding states could get more representation, so they made sure to document their population.  Let's assume it is possible. 

 

And I think tax on cannabis as it is being legalized is a huge untapped revenue source, and at the same time most white Americans who would object to giving black people reparations would not be taxed for it (unless they choose to buy pot.)

 

So how much are you willing to spend on running a genealogy report on every person who says they are descendants from slaves?  How do you plan to pay for college for those of mixed race and their genealogy shows that 14.39382% of their DNA comes from a person who was a slave?  You should run for office as you have an uncanny ability to throw out ideas with ZERO idea has to how it will work.  Bravo! 

 

And regarding the second part.  So the only people that will be paying for the reparations would be weed smokers?  Hmmm....how about black people that have descended from slaves that smoke pot?   

 

This is some brilliant well thought out top of the line government thinking right here folks.    

[Motorin']

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

So how much are you willing to spend on running a genealogy report on every person who says they are descendants from slaves?  How do you plan to pay for college for those of mixed race and their genealogy shows that 14.39382% of their DNA comes from a person who was a slave?  You should run for office as you have an uncanny ability to throw out ideas with ZERO idea has to how it will work.  Bravo! 

 

And regarding the second part.  So the only people that will be paying for the reparations would be weed smokers?  Hmmm....how about black people that have descended from slaves that smoke pot?   

 

This is some brilliant well thought out top of the line government thinking right here folks.    

 

Way to focus on any and all negativities while ignoring the potential to bring massive hope and empowerment to generations of children. 

 

Do you think black people who currently smoke weed would be pissed off that their weed smoking is sending kids to school? 

 

Do you think mixed race people have not been discriminated against? And that having a white parent erases their black roots?

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Here's an alternative hypothesis. Your refusal to to look at the objective and measurable aspects of the economic and legal ways that systemic racism has in the past and continues in the present to negatively impact black people, while pretending that it is all subjective liberal drivel, is endemic of your inability to separate your personal feelings and refusal to be blamed from the actual facts of the matter. 

 

You pay taxes, you refuse to be responsible for anyones poor choices. Therefore there is no way that you are responsible for unequal application of economic and legal treatment of anyone else. Therefore it must not exist, and to suggest that anyone is owed anything for tangible, measure harms is trying to stoke a race war... Ok, got it. 

 

"try immersing yourself in diversity and stop letting politicians tell you how your world works. See it with your own eyes. Ask and learn. Stop believing cheap flimsy narratives.  Free you mind, and the rest will follow."

 

From the guy who thinks none of the discrimination of the 19th or 20th century has any impact on the lives of people today and blames the entirety of the wealth gap on unwed black mothers, you should learn to take your own advice.  

 

 

 

 

Half my family was subjected to genocide 80 years ago and came to this country paupers, all doing quite well for themselves, so I’ve got decent examples of how culture and values overcome oppressive history.

 

Objectivity is the whole problem here, on that we agree. People look at race base disparity and perform a correlation equals causation exercise. Must be racism. Does anyone prove it? No. High profile murderous cop kills a man… and it’s racism. The prosecution did not once present any facts, argument, testimony or even suggest that the motive was anything other then being a calloced killer.  The media also conspicuously hid the guy was in an interracial marriage. 
 

People of different skin colors are allegedly held down by our system… oh wait, but the average household income for families with Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian, Taiwanese roots is beating the incumbent whites in their own alleged system of oppression.
 

Here is one, research how recent black immigrants fare in the US as compared to the average American.  It’s quite well. How does the system allow? 

 

You can cast dispersions on those that are questioning un-proven sweeping spurious correlation in the hopes to reaching a real idea on how to make real problems better.

 

But system is racist is an intentionally unsolvable political narrative to manifest power through division.

 

Also I blame the wealth gap on single parent household, not race or gender.  
 

BTW - Daniel Patrick Moynihan predicted in the 60’s That the subcultural degradation of family values was going to lead to pervasive inequity. 

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Way to focus on any and all negativities while ignoring the potential to bring massive hope and empowerment to generations of children. 

 

Do you think black people who currently smoke weed would be pissed off that their weed smoking is sending kids to school? 

 

Do you think mixed race people have not been discriminated against? And that having a white parent erases their black roots?

 

 

 

Focusing on the negatives??  I'm not even considering the end results because your plan has zero....ZERO viability.  So why would I even consider the hope and empowerment.  

 

And to your last point.  So if they had a (that is one) person in their 300 year lineage that qualifies them for your free schooling?  Oh and BTW school is already free.   

 

Your plan has so many flaws and it would be laughable if not for the fact that their are people in DC that are considering doing exactly what you're talking about.  

 

Reparations is impossible to work out so stop even trying. 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Focusing on the negatives??  I'm not even considering the end results because your plan has zero....ZERO viability.  So why would I even consider the hope and empowerment.  

 

And to your last point.  So if they had a (that is one) person in their 300 year lineage that qualifies them for your free schooling?  Oh and BTW school is already free.   

 

Your plan has so many flaws and it would be laughable if not for the fact that their are people in DC that are considering doing exactly what you're talking about.  

 

Reparations is impossible to work out so stop even trying. 

 

The Jesuit's disagree with you too: https://www.axios.com/catholic-order-vows-100-million-slavery-reparations-bf572234-1a14-410b-82a1-0ca91b082a09.html

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

55 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

What part of the below text from key findings says to you that prior criminal history was omitted?

 

 

because it says there clearly… see that’s how they get you. 
 

They seem extremely careful to say “past violence” in multiple places not “past criminal history”. 
 

So hypothetically if you were busted four times selling heroin to 12 year olds, of course the fifth time the sentence is longer, but it’s not necessarily a parameter in the analysis they way they couch it, because it wasn’t past violence. Thus in this analysis a career non violent criminal looks just like a first time offender. 
 

Id like to see the same sentencing analysis for first time offenders. Or bucketed by same criminal history. That’s my point. 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jesuit's disagree with you too: https://www.axios.com/catholic-order-vows-100-million-slavery-reparations-bf572234-1a14-410b-82a1-0ca91b082a09.html

 

Awesome!  Good for them.  It's charity they can do what they want.  It's not my tax dollars.  Now to their plan.  What is their plan to determine who was and who was not a descendant of those enslaved by the Catholic order.  Sounds like yours.  It doesn't even look good on paper.  

[Motorin']

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Awesome!  Good for them.  It's charity they can do what they want.  It's not my tax dollars.  Now to their plan.  What is their plan to determine who was and who was not a descendant of those enslaved by the Catholic order.  Sounds like yours.  It doesn't even look good on paper.  

 

Luckily for dumb people like me who don't know how the world works,  really smart people (not me clearly) have digitized the entire record of births and census records of our entire nation. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Motorin'

[Jauronimo]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

because it says there clearly… see that’s how they get you. 
 

They seem extremely careful to say “past violence” in multiple places not “past criminal history”. 
 

So hypothetically if you were busted four times selling heroin to 12 year olds, of course the fifth time the sentence is longer, but it’s not necessarily a parameter in the analysis they way they couch it, because it wasn’t past violence. Thus in this analysis a career non violent criminal looks just like a first time offender. 
 

Id like to see the same sentencing analysis for first time offenders. Or bucketed by same criminal history. That’s my point. 

Then go find it and share it with us.  Perhaps that data isn't available.   

 

I believe we have already established that there are clearly different outcomes in sentencing based on gender despite consistent laws, as you so aptly pointed out.  Why is it so hard to believe that there could be bias in the system based on race in a country where blacks couldn't use the same bathrooms as whites 70 years ago?

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

But history matters. My dad had a good job, if he had been black he wouldn’t have had a good job in all probability.

History matters for context and understanding and acknowledging the past.  But it doesn't matter when it comes to what might be 2021 "systemic racism" conditions.  The examples you cite no longer exist and have been outlawed.  So exactly what 2021 remedies and changes are there for problems created by conditions that no longer exist? 

 

Slavery has been abolished by the 13th amendment and Jim Crow and separate but equal laws have been stuck down and abolished by  court rulings and legislation such as the 1964 Civil Rights Act.  Those "systemic" issues no longer exist.  You can no better argue hard numbers of the "systemic" impact on today of those events than you can argue impacts from slavery in Ancient Rome and Egypt on contemporary Italian or Egyptian society and culture.   

 

Again, I'm seeking an understanding through the use of hard data and numbers in order to quantify and validate "systemic" statements and opinions.  My base view remains unmoved.  Systemic racism in 2021 is a belief rather than some scientifically tested set of facts or statistics.  And beliefs are subjective opinions.  Therefore, the idea that systemic racism exists is an opinion. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills