US Catholic Bishops vote to rebuke pro abortion Catholic politicians

[Wacka]

why can'r he be senile too?

[Sundancer]

52 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Maybe because he is a career politician, wherein getting votes trumps ideological belief, when ideological belief might cost votes.

It is theologically incongruent to claim to be Catholic and yet support abortion.

The two cannot coexist.

 

Biden is, first and foremost, a politician.

His Catholic claim is a convenient exercise.

You can't have it both ways.

There are Catholics who have doubts about God’s existence. People aren’t simple. 

[BillStime]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

But it also seems odd that President Biden goes to their church and sits in the front row when he knows they think abortion is murder, and then works to further it in the world the other 6 days of the week.  Some true mental gymnastics going on here.

Um a lot of Catholics get abortions and still go to church every week.

[Doc Brown]

I assume the bishops are fine with the death penalty then.

[716er]

This is pretty silly. If these bishops are serious why not extend to every pro-choice Catholic?

 

 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

Um a lot of Catholics get abortions and still go to church every week.

 

The technical term for that and what President Biden does is Cafeteria Catholics.

Edited June 20, 2021 by reddogblitz

[Big Blitz]

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I assume the bishops are fine with the death penalty then.

 

 

As of now, not Doctrine.  Unless Francis would like to clarify.  As of now, Pope Paul's clarification is the teaching:

 

 

 

Pope St. John Paul II favored the abolition of capital punishment. However, the catechism he promulgated nevertheless taught that the death penalty can be legitimate “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” Moreover, the pope’s doctrinal spokesman Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who went on to become Pope Benedict XVI, made it clear that John Paul’s call for abolition reflected a prudential judgment with which faithful Catholics need not agree. In a 2004 memorandum, the cardinal wrote that “if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment… he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion,” and that “there may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about… applying the death penalty.”

 

Pope Francis has taken a harder line against capital punishment than his predecessors. He has vigorously and repeatedly denounced the practice in public addresses, and has altered the catechism so that it now declares the death penalty flatly “inadmissible” and calls for “its abolition worldwide.” John Paul II’s exception has been removed. Some Catholic opponents of capital punishment appeal to these developments as proof that all Catholics are now obligated to favor its abolition – that there can no longer be the “legitimate diversity of opinion” spoken of by then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They label those who still support the death penalty “dissenters” and attribute to them disreputable motives, such as bloodlust or a political agenda.

 

But there are serious problems with this view (apart from the obvious one that the latter accusations are just cheap ad hominem attacks). For one thing, when one reads Pope Francis’s statements about the death penalty carefully, it turns out to be difficult to interpret them in a way that would make assent to them binding on Catholics. For another, if Catholic opponents of the death penalty were consistent in their appeal to these statements, then they would have to accept some further conclusions that it seems few of them do accept – and that it would be difficult for any faithful Catholic to accept. I will explain what I have in mind by setting out three questions that any intellectually honest Catholic has to address before he can claim that all Catholics are obligated to oppose capital punishment:

 

1. Does Pope Francis’s teaching on capital punishment amount to a doctrinal change or merely a prudential judgment?

There are two possible interpretations of Pope Francis’s teaching on the death penalty. Either he intends to revise the relevant doctrinal principles, or he intends merely to make a prudential judgment about how best to apply existing doctrinal principles to current circumstances. But on neither interpretation can Catholics be obligated to assent to his position (as opposed to merely giving it respectful consideration).....

 

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/10/07/three-questions-for-catholic-opponents-of-capital-punishment/

[Chef Jim]

20 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Probably a lot of self-loathing in your life.  Sad. 

Oh yes a ton. You sure have me pegged.  
 

Not sure where you get that from this post. I suggest you stay with the legal field. Psychology ain’t your cup o’ tea. 🙄

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, Wacka said:

why can'r he be senile too?

Did you know that you are senile? 

[Wacka]

Remember JPII was a seminar student during WWII.

[Tiberius]

Is the Catholic Church also still against birth control? 

 

 

[ALF]

No matter what Biden thinks he can't overrule the Supreme Court on abortion.

[Tiberius]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

As of now, not Doctrine.  Unless Francis would like to clarify.  As of now, Pope Paul's clarification is the teaching:

 

 

 

Pope St. John Paul II favored the abolition of capital punishment. However, the catechism he promulgated nevertheless taught that the death penalty can be legitimate “if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” Moreover, the pope’s doctrinal spokesman Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who went on to become Pope Benedict XVI, made it clear that John Paul’s call for abolition reflected a prudential judgment with which faithful Catholics need not agree. In a 2004 memorandum, the cardinal wrote that “if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment… he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion,” and that “there may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about… applying the death penalty.”

 

Pope Francis has taken a harder line against capital punishment than his predecessors. He has vigorously and repeatedly denounced the practice in public addresses, and has altered the catechism so that it now declares the death penalty flatly “inadmissible” and calls for “its abolition worldwide.” John Paul II’s exception has been removed. Some Catholic opponents of capital punishment appeal to these developments as proof that all Catholics are now obligated to favor its abolition – that there can no longer be the “legitimate diversity of opinion” spoken of by then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They label those who still support the death penalty “dissenters” and attribute to them disreputable motives, such as bloodlust or a political agenda.

 

But there are serious problems with this view (apart from the obvious one that the latter accusations are just cheap ad hominem attacks). For one thing, when one reads Pope Francis’s statements about the death penalty carefully, it turns out to be difficult to interpret them in a way that would make assent to them binding on Catholics. For another, if Catholic opponents of the death penalty were consistent in their appeal to these statements, then they would have to accept some further conclusions that it seems few of them do accept – and that it would be difficult for any faithful Catholic to accept. I will explain what I have in mind by setting out three questions that any intellectually honest Catholic has to address before he can claim that all Catholics are obligated to oppose capital punishment:

 

1. Does Pope Francis’s teaching on capital punishment amount to a doctrinal change or merely a prudential judgment?

There are two possible interpretations of Pope Francis’s teaching on the death penalty. Either he intends to revise the relevant doctrinal principles, or he intends merely to make a prudential judgment about how best to apply existing doctrinal principles to current circumstances. But on neither interpretation can Catholics be obligated to assent to his position (as opposed to merely giving it respectful consideration).....

 

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/10/07/three-questions-for-catholic-opponents-of-capital-punishment/

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

 

Yes.  

10 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

 

 

 

So Ted admits abortion is wrong and a sin.  Just wants to make sure all mortal sinners are treated equal.

 

Thanks Ted.  Appreciate it.  

 

I'll have the Bishops look into those 3 guys as soon as I can.  

 

Btw did Newt get an annulment?  Does he even go to mass?  Why should I care Ted?   

Edited June 20, 2021 by Big Blitz

[BillStime]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yes.  

 

 

 

 

So Ted admits abortion is wrong and a sin.  Just wants to make sure all mortal sinners are treated equal.

 

Thanks Ted.  Appreciate it.  

 

I'll have the Bishops look into those 3 guys as soon as I can.  

 

Btw did Newt get an annulment?  Does he even go to mass?  Why should I care Ted?   

Sit kneel stand - Sit kneel stand.
 

What a sense of community - what a religion - no wonder it’s dying - just like the GOP.

[Another Fan]

I remember reading this a teenager and it still holds for some laughs some almost 20 years later.  From Maddox the angry Pirate.

 

A very cynical and satirical piece on politicians on abortion.  I emphasize the word satirical here!!!

 

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=regressive

 

He's against abortion but pro killing babies lol

 

 

[Chef Jim]

22 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.

 

But it also seems odd that President Biden goes to their church and sits in the front row when he knows they think abortion is murder, and then works to further it in the world the other 6 days of the week.  Some true mental gymnastics going on here.

He’s a cafeteria catholic. Who cares.  Abortion is murder is an opinion by the church. I am extremely agnostic but agree with the church on that point.  The fact that Biden disagrees should have no baring on how he is judged.  

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Do you agree with the Church that Birth Control is a sin? 

Funny. Another subject you are very wrong about.