The Process - Why it's Important and Sustainable

[mabden]

3 hours ago, GVINCENT said:

I am 99% on board with the Beane-McDermott process... The 1% I am not on board with regards the Wyatt Teller trade.

 

 

I liked the drafting of Teller.  I thought he had the typical 5th round rooky season and worth keeping around.     

[mabden]

14 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

Go and watch literally any postgame interview video on buffalobills.com and notice how much the players talk about their brothers on the team and refuse to talk about themselves. 

 

 

I believe this is the true difference between a winning team and a losing team.  Agreed it starts at the top (Kim and Terry Pegula with their commitment to keeping the Bills in Buffalo) and permeates through the rest of the team.

[Kwai San]

6 hours ago, GVINCENT said:

I am 99% on board with the Beane-McDermott process... The 1% I am not on board with regards the Wyatt Teller trade. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/wyatt-teller/46131... Teller is playing at an elite Pro-Bowl level and The Bills got a 5th rd. pick for him. And he makes under $700K for the next two years. Who is responsible for not recognizing his talent in the one year he played for The Bills... When you can get Pro-Bowl type players for $700K, that is how you get an edge up in this salary cap era... The Bills made The Browns a better team and made their offensive line weaker by trading Wyatt Teller... whenever The Bills face a dominant interior lineman they get mauled... Teller gets elite grades for run-blocking and pass-protection... I'm just sayin...

 

I agree 110% about Teller and his actions on the field.  Who knows about Teller off the field?  I don't and will be the first to admit it.  There had to be SOMETHING that stood out to the Bills braintrust that they didn't need Teller anymore.  I liked Teller from the get go, I thought he was going to be a HUGE addition....turns out as many have sagely pointed out - "good thing you aren't the GM".  There is a ton of stuff that goes on that we as fans are not privy too......      

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

 

IMO props to the OP. It may sound sappy to those outside of Buffalo but we know it's real. Players and agents DO talk. The Pegulas DO pay for the right people (....just not w/ the Sabres) 

 

yes they should sell the team so they do not need to deal with peanut gallery comments

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, GVINCENT said:

I am 99% on board with the Beane-McDermott process... The 1% I am not on board with regards the Wyatt Teller trade. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/wyatt-teller/46131... Teller is playing at an elite Pro-Bowl level and The Bills got a 5th rd. pick for him. And he makes under $700K for the next two years. Who is responsible for not recognizing his talent in the one year he played for The Bills... When you can get Pro-Bowl type players for $700K, that is how you get an edge up in this salary cap era... The Bills made The Browns a better team and made their offensive line weaker by trading Wyatt Teller... whenever The Bills face a dominant interior lineman they get mauled... Teller gets elite grades for run-blocking and pass-protection... I'm just sayin...

 

Totally disagree with this take.  McD talked about Teller after the trade - a good young player, but something they could get an asset for as opposed to losing for nothing.  Teller last year projected (as he has this year) strictly as a guard with no position flexibility and could not beat out Spain or Mongo as a starter.

 

Last year the team went out and tried to find significant improvements for the offensive line.  They signed Spain, Mongo, Morse, Ty,  drafted Cody Ford, Ike, they had Teller, Bodine, and Long, and brought in Bates.  They found a starting 5 and Teller was not one of them (nor should he have been based on his terrible job in Cleveland last year - amongst the worst starters at guard in the league).  The back-ups as has been typical of McD - he wants position flexibility in case of in game injury.  
 

At that time they recognized Teller might have a future with hard work, but he was not making the team because he was not good enough to start and provided poor depth as he was strictly a guard.  The Bills knew he was going to be a depth cut and got something for him.  Teller to his credit really needed the playing time and he was not going to get it here last year.  
 

Teller was one of many choices teams have to make when cutting down players.  To act like the Bills did not recognize the talent is crazy - they drafted him because they thought he could play.  They also knew as a 5th round pick he needed time to develop and they recognized he was not developing on the time line they needed to match up with their goals.  They made a choice and got an asset and Teller went to a team that was a better fit for his talent and more importantly was able to give him a full starting year last year as a guard where he stunk, but the playing time was critical.  Going into this year the Browns were not sure he was going to make the roster, but Teller obviously worked hard in the off-season and the new head coach is a run first guy - that really lines up with Tellers strengths.

 

I have no issues with them trading Teller because what you see today from him was forged in battle last year and he was not getting that here - the Bills had expectations and were not going to suffer the growing pains when they had better players.  

[BuffaninSarasota]

8 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

yes they should sell the team so they do not need to deal with peanut gallery comments

 

you apparently missed the sarcasm, but I should have used an emoji to make that clear....... I have nothing but the highest aspirations for the Sabres.

Edited December 17, 2020 by BuffaninSarasota
add'l content

[Shaw66]

On 12/16/2020 at 5:39 AM, GVINCENT said:

I am 99% on board with the Beane-McDermott process... The 1% I am not on board with regards the Wyatt Teller trade. 

Once I heard a guy speak who was a career/worker.  He worked on the staff of a Congressman, and he'd worked on multiple political campaigns.  He said there was one thing politicians had in common.  When they woke up on the day after a landslide victory, there was no joy and basking in the glory of just having received 75% of the vote.  What they always ask the campaign chairman is "why didn't the other 25% vote for me?"   That's you.  

 

DId you have a kid in your class at school who got 99 on most of the tests?   Sure, that kid wanted to know what he did wrong on that 1%, but did the rest of the class think?   They thought he was the smartest kid in the class. 

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that McBeane look at Teller and ask themselves whether they should have kept him.  They know why they chose not to.  When they reexamine that decision, they might even continue to think it was the right choice at the time.  

 

Being a successful GM is all about batting average.  No one bats 1.000.   Anyone who thinks Beane is batting .900 should be celebrating Beane, not complaining about it.  In fact, Beane isn't batting .900.  I think he's doing great, but Teller is only one of many decisions we can second guess.  

[Don Otreply]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:36 AM, ScottLaw said:

It will mostly be sustainable because they have a franchise QB....regardless of the "process".

Tell that to Kirk Cousins...

The QB is obviously important, but it needs more than that to make it happen, luckily we have the other things that allows all the parts to work together. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[SCBills]

Most teams win SB's with QB's not on rookie deals, so I'm not sure why so many stay fixated on this.  

 

In regards to roster building with a big $$$ QB, I absolutely trust Beane and McDermott to keep this team contending for a long time. 

 

McDermott will be here, no matter who the DC is, and McDermott is one of the best Defensive minds in football.  He knows exactly what he needs to field a Top 10 Defense, and that doesn't require a bunch of star players.  He'll have his lockdown corner in Tre White and his QB of the Defense at MLB in Tremaine Edmunds.  After that, he's shown that he can turn solid Safeties into an elite duo.  He's shown he can take mid-late round/UDFA talent and coach them up opposite Tre, or in the slot, and have them play at an acceptable level.  

 

He has had the luxury of overspending on the DL, and while there's not a superstar on the line, there are a bunch of good players.  He and Beane will need to hit on draft picks to surround Ed Oliver with a strong rotation, and so far, Harry pre-ACL, Epenesa and 7th Rounder Darry Johnson, show promise that they can do it via the Draft.

 

With McDermott being a great Defensive Coach and knowing what he needs on that side of the ball, that should allow us to majority spend on Offense and, again, we have a method to the madness in regards to the cap...  Spend on QB/OL/WR and then, potentially, continue to use mid-round picks on TE/RB.  We may want a more dynamic RB or more reliable TE, but we have the right mindset in coaching those positions up and making sure we have high level talent protecting Allen and in providing him WR weaponry.   

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by SCBills

[Don Otreply]

39 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Kirk Cousins doesn't have Josh Allen's skill set and it's really not even close. 

Didn’t say he did, as you could tell by the words I used,  but he is their franchise QB... all Franchise QB are not created equal, and success as you know requires more than a good QB.  It is not a one dimension process to have a successful team...

 

Go Bills!!!

[Don Otreply]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I don’t disagree.... when I said franchise QB I meant a top QB in this league. I don’t consider Kirk Cousins a top QB at all....... and continued success for the Bills will depend on how they manage the draft/FA with a lot less resources to work with.....as well as how they handle replacing of coaches/scouts once they get plucked from other teams as they surely will be. 

The staffing of players and coaches going forward will be a test unto itself, I do think between Beane & McDermott they will do a good job of it. 

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The test will be sustaining success with little cap room after Allen gets paid.... Beane hit big time on Allen but his overall drafts have been pretty average, IMO. 

One would have to objectively compare Beane with 31 other GMs over the same duration, and their teams success rate on drafted players, I suspect Beane is In the top thirty percent of GMs, jmo. 

[ganesh]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:48 AM, NoSaint said:

We have a qb on a rookie deal and have $30m in extra talent on the roster compared to a team with a vet qb 

 

sure there’s a lot of nice feel good stuff around that but at it’s core that’s the major factor at play. 

We have a qb on a rookie deal and have $30m in extra talent on the roster compared to a team with a vet qb 

 

>  We have a franchise QB on a rookie deal. 

 

That is what makes this tick....Ben, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes all won the Super Bowl for their teams on their rookie deals.   The Bills need to do the same this year or next year

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

One would have to objectively compare Beane with 31 other GMs over the same duration, and their teams success rate on drafted players, I suspect Beane is In the top thirty percent of GMs, jmo. 

You have to view Beane's success in

 

* Draft

* FA signings 

* Trades 

* UDFA signings

 

The success of each component attributes to the fact that the coach and the GM are on the same page.

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

We have a qb on a rookie deal and have $30m in extra talent on the roster compared to a team with a vet qb 

 

>  We have a franchise QB on a rookie deal. 

 

That is what makes this tick....Ben, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes all won the Super Bowl for their teams on their rookie deals.   The Bills need to do the same this year or next year

You have to view Beane's success in

 

* Draft

* FA signings 

* Trades 

* UDFA signings

 

The success of each component attributes to the fact that the coach and the GM are on the same page.

Yup, and the Beane McDermott team is doing quite well👍

[CLTbills]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:10 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

It's Lean Management or Toyota Production System. McD calls it process. Others call it continuous improvement. Lexus calls it the Pursuit of Perfection. 

I can appreciate this, working for Lexus for 7 years!

[Big Blitz]

Agree with almost everything here.  Especially the part about the 76ers being a bad example of process.  They literally meant tanking for no 1s overall.  

 

 

I'd add that arguably the most important thing is getting 53 alpha males to buy in.....that they understand why they aren't playing if they feel like they're doing all the right things in practice.  That everyone understands what their roles are and what they do best.  On offense only so many balls to go around.  Some guys role may be as simple as a mentor show young guys how to do things the right way.  I think that's why Lee Smith is here.  That's why we had the backup QBs we had or currently have.  And they all are good with and understand it.  Process.  

 

The way we run our offense you will not see any potential diva RB like Bell on this team until we have SB winning credibility.  They aren't the focus of the O so we would like to avoid headaches like guys complaining about getting the ball.  And I think we thought we could make AB work because he was going to get 150 targets, and the WRs we have would be humble enough to know yes, that's how it is because he's a top 2 or 3 WR in the league.  

 

All this has to be explained to guys honestly while not damaging egos too much (we all want to play) or ticking guys off to where they want to leave, etc.  They need to see great play in addition to great preparation will get you on the field and production will keep you there.  Production will get you paid.  

 

As people have said all this starts with individual improvement and the growth mindset.  Everything will work out some how some way.  You don't need guys that are saints....it's a bonus if high talented hard work guys are.  But you can't have *** holes that are toxic either.  It's a no brainer you are looking for the most talented guys.  But that talent has to "fit" around what we're doing and who is already here.  As long as Diggs is here, no other WR with his make up (he wants the ball) is going to be coming here with that same mentality unless both are good with less targets.  Process.  

[foreboding]

Great post OP, but I think what you described is a result of the process, not the process itself.

 

Sean's process is built around the idea of a GROWTH MINDSET. This was crystallized in the seminal work of Carol Dweck. Sean mentions the growth mindset, often.

 

Read her book, phenomenal.

 

Anyway, the crux is this: and it broadly categorizes folks into two categories, Fixed and Growth mindset.

 

Fixed people hold dear the things that define them. I am faster, the smartest, richest, the best looking..." whatever it is, and they can be nearly delusional in their attempts to prove and remind us all. They do not handle coaching well (they already know everything) and public failure is anathema to them. If you try to challenge their precious self-image they will not react well.

 

Think of public people who mirror this mindset, politics is a great place to start.

 

Growth mindset people/teachings view life as a process. When you fail, it present an opportunity, rather than you being a failure.  An opportunity to say "cool, what can I learn from this?" Growth mindset people not only want feedback, they crave it as every meaningful interaction brings growth and that IS THE reward. Learn and grow is the continuous end, it is the process. In a world that encourages the individual, this process breeds accountability and community.

 

The natural result are more humble, hungry people who are on a road to success that will never end.

 

Sean has done a masterful job, but it starts with him. If he is not on that same road, it is hypocrisy and we know that is always found out.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by foreboding

[Billsfan1972]

Not again!!!!🙄

 

So tired of the Process that people have glommed on to.

 

How about well coached and a good culture???

 

Oh yea & finding a "franchise" Qb and discovering that offense plays a key roll in your success?

 

I'm a basketball fan and for the Toronto Raptors.  Never once was the word "process" uttered.  They built a team, got the right pieces, a great GM & coaching staff.

 

 

[foreboding]

21 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

 

So tired of the Process that people have glommed on to.

 

How about well coached and a good culture???

 

 

Irrespective of the nomenclature you choose, Sean has labeled it "The Process". It is growth mindset -> leads to a teachable org -> leads to better players and coaches -> winning

[Shaw66]

55 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Great post OP, but I think what you described is a result of the process, not the process itself.

 

Sean's process is built around the idea of a GROWTH MINDSET. This was crystallized in the seminal work of Carol Dweck. Sean mentions the growth mindset, often.

 

Read her book, phenomenal.

 

Anyway, the crux is this: and it broadly categorizes folks into two categories, Fixed and Growth mindset.

 

Fixed people hold dear the things that define them. I am faster, the smartest, richest, the best looking..." whatever it is, and they can be nearly delusional in their attempts to prove and remind us all. They do not handle coaching well (they already know everything) and public failure is anathema to them. If you try to challenge their precious self-image they will not react well.

 

Think of public people who mirror this mindset, politics is a great place to start.

 

Growth mindset people/teachings view life as a process. When you fail, it present an opportunity, rather than you being a failure.  An opportunity to say "cool, what can I learn from this?" Growth mindset people not only want feedback, they crave it as every meaningful interaction brings growth and that IS THE reward. Learn and grow is the continuous end, it is the process. In a world that encourages the individual, this process breeds accountability and community.

 

The natural result are more humble, hungry people who are on a road to success that will never end.

 

Sean has done a masterful job, but it starts with him. If he is not on that same road, it is hypocrisy and we know that is always found out.

 

Thanks.  I didn't know about her, and I don't recall having heard McD talk about her.  But what you and Wikipedia say about her theories clearly is at the core of McD's process.  (I should note that Wikipedia says that other psycologists have not been able to replicate her clinical results, and there is a healthy debate about what the consequence is of her work.)  

 

It's interesting, too, that someone who works for Lexus (Toyota), chimed in above, because the Japanese were onto the growth mindset, apparently before Dweck wrote about it.  Danaher is also famous for strictly seeking this kind of personal development, too.  

 

The growth mindset vs. the fixed mindset is at the core of a lot of discussion about McDermott and the Bills on this forum.  Some people here show they believe in the fixed mindset when they say that McD isn't good at challenges or isn't good at managing the clock or other similar comments.  They say it as if the fact that he didn't do those things well last year mean that he won't do those things well next year.   In fact, McD is a believer in the growth mindset, which means he has in place systems to evaluate how well he does things, like challenges and clock management.  If the evaluation is that he is doing those things poorly, McD views it as an opportunity to improve, so he studies, seeks advice, changes his behavior and reevaluates.  

 

The growth mindset is very much what he wants in his players.  He wants his players not so much to celebrate what went right, but to question and evaluate what went wrong so it won't happen again.  

 

I think we see the result of the process in his defense.   It's very rare that we see defenders after a play looking at each other and making gestures that say, "I thought you had that guy."   The Bills know where they're supposed to be on defense, so they're rarely out of position.  Still, of course, plays work against them, so when they watch film, they're always asking, "what could we do so that doesn't happen again."   Working and practicing like that every day makes the team better and better.  It's called continuous improvement.  

10 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Irrespective of the nomenclature you choose, Sean has labeled it "The Process". It is growth mindset -> leads to a teachable org -> leads to better players and coaches -> winning

And, as I just said, continuous improvement.   That's the real key.   Continuous improvement means Hyde and Poyer get better as a safety tandem, year after year.  It stops only after their pure physical abilities begin to decline.  Continuous improvement your quarterback in the same system gets better, year after year.