Goodell Admits NFL Was Wrong Not to Listen

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

As I’ve set them up? They are objective statistics. I just said them. They are in black and white. 
 

Not surprised you aren’t willing to discuss them. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sig1Hunter said:

As I’ve set them up? They are objective statistics. I just said them. They are in black and white. 
 

Not surprised you aren’t willing to discuss them. 

Look- imagine for a second there's no political bone to pick. Just for a second.

 

Rate refers to the ratio between two related quantities in different units. Like the rate of velocity is measured in terms of meters per second. You're trying to measure the rate of cops killed to the rate of unarmed black people killed by cops without defining a comparable denominator: you don't have compatible rates. What you are operating under is (police)+(unarmed black people killed by police)/...what? 

[Cripple Creek]

28 minutes ago, Margarita said:

cool thanks man I knew there would be a good reason. Peace.

✌️

24 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

. 

Thanks, read my other posts. 

You're hiding, that's your choice.  Leave us to discuss the most important matter in my lifetime.

[ColoradoBills]

Maybe it's coincidence or maybe it's the way of the universe but today is the anniversary of D-Day but it's also

the anniversary of an assassination and it's also the anniversary of a famous speech given by the assassinated man.

 

Lot's has changed in 54 years but also a lot still needs to be done.

I personally choose to be a "ripple of hope".  Here is a 4 minute clip for anyone who wants to watch.

 

 

[K-9]

36 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Yes, George Floyd was a horrible situation. 
 

Where is the evidence that it was racially based? Got any?
 

Maybe it was an example of a criminal cop? You know what? They exist! They aren’t the boogeyman. The boogeyman is the BS narrative that there is systematic racism in police. That’s what you lemmings are marching on. Weird that cops are killed at a MUCH higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police. Weird that black men comprise 6% of the population but comprise over 40% of the perpetrators of violent crime. Where was the marching when a friend of mine was murdered by a black suspect? He stopped out to check on a disabled motorist, and was shot and killed as he got out of his car. Cops are systematically hunting and killing black people? Garbage. It just isn’t true. 

 

Again, if you want to have a discussion about those things that have contributed to the environment where black suspects are committing violent crimes at exponentially higher rates than all other races, let’s do it. Let’s talk about the legislators and leaders in those black communities that have allowed that to happen under their watch for DECADES. I doubt you will want to have that discussion, though. It’s so much easier to scapegoat the police. That’s what the political leaders are doing, too. Keep following. It’s a great strategy... until you reach the precipice of that cliff.

Whether Floyd’s murder was a racist act or not is for those that need to argue minutiae. He was BLACK. I’m willing to entertain he just may have been a psychotic F who was having a really bad day, but his victim was BLACK. That is the optic reality. Racist or not is a secondary concern, but it’s a fair question. 
 

Let’s talk about those leaders who have failed those communities indeed. That’s a huge part of the problem. And the current movement acknowledges that reality, including black leaders you seem to think are asleep at the wheel. 
 

Cops aren’t being scapegoated.  BAD cops, ROGUE cops, UNFIT cops are being called out and all those good cops and their unions who have looked the other way in order to keep that thin blue line intact are being asked to stop doing that. Chauvin was cited 19 times for various actions unbecoming a LEO. Why was he even allowed to be where he was on that fateful day? I submit his union representation was a huge advocate for allowing him to remain an officer just as they have been for decades. “I was in fear for my life”, is a mantra and is cited in EVERY case I’ve researched. 
 

Can you honestly say that the police have done an exemplary job of policing themselves in the history of our country? Can you honestly say black people don’t have a historical reason to be mistrustful? 
 

Believe what you need to. Suffice to say you’re wasting your time trying to convince me these protests have it all wrong, though. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by K-9

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Thank you for your parting ignorant thought. It was the cherry on top of a scrumptious dessert. 

So says one person. I am not your caricature of a slacked jawed yokel who dropped out of high school. I’m very well versed in this and have higher education much higher (and in subjects) than you might think. You would think it would make me more amiable to the mainstream view. Instead I see right through the BS people spew. This is precisely because I studied my way through liberal professor after liberal professor holding my own against their naïveté. Continue to drone on with a lemming fervor my friend. My view point is not ignorant rather well learned (pronounced learn-Ed). Good day to you sir. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by HamSandwhich

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I don’t, I also know as a former Marine that taking a knee during the National anthem is a constitutional right that I served to protect. Why is it that some Americans so viscerally dislike it when other Americans exercise their constitutional rights?  Doing so by using a straw man argument about our military service members to feebly attempt to make a mistaken point, and then repeatedly doubling down on that very mistaken point?  Again why would an American citizen want to prevent another American citizen from exercising their constitutional rights?  Such action is totally UN-AMERICAN. 
 

 

The poster I was responding to asked me if NFL games should stop honoring the US military. I asked him if he found honoring the military disrespectful.

 

I'm telling you this because what you typed doesn't seem to apply to the post you quoted.

[Sig1Hunter]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Whether Floyd’s murder was a racist act or not is for those that need to argue minutiae. He was BLACK. I’m willing to entertain he just may have been a psychotic F who was having a really bad day, but his victim was BLACK. That is the optic reality. Racist or not is a secondary concern, but it’s a fair question. 
 

Let’s talk about those leaders who have failed those communities indeed. That’s a huge part of the problem. And the current movement acknowledges that reality, including black leaders you seem to think are asleep at the wheel. 
 

Cops aren’t being scapegoated.  BAD cops, ROGUE cops, UNFIT cops are being called out and all those good cops and their unions who have looked the other way in order to keep that thin blue line intact are being asked to stop doing that. Chauvin was cited 19 times for various actions unbecoming a LEO. Why was he even allowed to be where he was on that fateful day? I submit his union representation was a huge advocate for allowing him to remain an officer just as they have been for decades. “I was in fear for my life”, is a mantra and is cited in EVERY case I’ve researched. 
 

Can you honestly say that the police have done an exemplary job of policing themselves in the history of our country? Can you honestly say black people don’t have a historical reason to be mistrustful? 
 

Believe what you need to. Suffice to say you’re wasting your time trying to convince me these protests have it all wrong, though. 

You were the one that used the Floyd case as evidence of systematic racism is law enforcement. I was asking what evidence you have of that. 

Cops aren’t being scapegoated? Bricks are being targeted at rogue cops only? Molotov cocktails are launched only at unfit cops? The cops being spit on and cursed at, those are the rogue cops? The politicians, athletes, Hollywood elite are all referencing “systemic racism” in law enforcement. But you are saying it’s only about rogue cops? I’ll get on board with you, but all this mess over a very small percentage of rogue cops?
 

We can agree that there are bad cops. I’ve worked with them. I’ve arrested them. The vast, vast majority of cops are good, selfless, and often heroic people. They are not systematically racist. And evidence from history that shows they used to be is totally irrelevant to today. The killing of unarmed suspects has dropped year after year. Use of control is down. Law enforcement has never been better than they are today... yet, there are cries of “burn it down” and “ defund the police”. And mayors are actually doing it! How are cops going to have better training, hire better candidates, get better access to less lethal tools when cities are cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from the budget? How on Earth does that make sense? If city leaders truly believe the problem lies with the police, and their response is to make drastic cuts to their budgets? You aren’t punishing the cops. You are punishing those that are going to get 250 million less of service. 
 

BTW- the thin blue line isn’t a metaphor for cops protecting bad cops. The thin blue line is the line of cops protecting you and I from the darkness and anarchy that would exist without them. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

By bending the knee he’s not bending the knee.  
 

Bravo Rodger 

[Sig1Hunter]

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Look- imagine for a second there's no political bone to pick. Just for a second.

 

Rate refers to the ratio between two related quantities in different units. Like the rate of velocity is measured in terms of meters per second. You're trying to measure the rate of cops killed to the rate of unarmed black people killed by cops without defining a comparable denominator: you don't have compatible rates. What you are operating under is (police)+(unarmed black people killed by police)/...

 

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Look- imagine for a second there's no political bone to pick. Just for a second.

 

Rate refers to the ratio between two related quantities in different units. Like the rate of velocity is measured in terms of meters per second. You're trying to measure the rate of cops killed to the rate of unarmed black people killed by cops without defining a comparable denominator: you don't have compatible rates. What you are operating under is (police)+(unarmed black people killed by police)/...what? 

No political bone.

 

From 2004 to 2013, 511 cops were killed in felonious incidents. There were 540 total offenders, 232 of which were black. Er go, 43% of the offenders were black. During the same time period, the black population is approximately 13%.  13% of the population committing 43% of the crimes. That means nothing to you? 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Sig1Hunter

[LB3]

21 hours ago, Mango said:

The COO of my company handed out MAGA hats at our sales meeting to the entire company. I threw it in the garbage. I was very open with my company, boss, and COO that I wouldn’t wear that hat and if they wanted me to, I would just quit. And I was absolutely not joking. I would have walked. 
 

I got my 2nd promotion in the last year about 60 days after that. And received 2 awards at that same sales meeting. Our COO does all of the hirings and promotions himself. So it’s not like things just happen beneath him. 

I'm glad your boss values work ethic and effort. It clearly sounds like you worked for everthing you got.

Edited June 6, 2020 by LB3

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

You were the one that used the Floyd case as evidence of systematic racism is law enforcement. I was asking what evidence you have of that. 

Cops aren’t being scapegoated? Bricks are being targeted at rogue cops only? Molotov cocktails are launched only at unfit cops? The cops being spit on and cursed at, those are the rogue cops? The politicians, athletes, Hollywood elite are all referencing “systemic racism” in law enforcement. But you are saying it’s only about rogue cops? I’ll get on board with you, but all this mess over a very small percentage of rogue cops?
 

We can agree that there are bad cops. I’ve worked with them. I’ve arrested them. The vast, vast majority of cops are good, selfless, and often heroic people. They are not systematically racist. And evidence from history that shows they used to be is totally irrelevant to today. The killing of unarmed suspects has dropped year after year. Use of control is down. Law enforcement has never been better than they are today... yet, there are cries of “burn it down” and “ defund the police”. And mayors are actually doing it! How are cops going to have better training, hire better candidates, get better access to less lethal tools when cities are cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from the budget? How on Earth does that make sense? If city leaders truly believe the problem lies with the police, and their response is to make drastic cuts to their budgets? You aren’t punishing the cops. You are punishing those that are going to get 250 million less of service. 
 

BTW- the thin blue line isn’t a metaphor for cops protecting bad cops. The thin blue line is the line of cops protecting you and I from the darkness and anarchy that would exist without them. 

You should re-read the post you initially engaged me about because I clearly stated the NFL now agrees with the players and protesters that there is systematic oppression (racism) against blacks. Read the article and you’ll see that. If it makes you feel any better, I suspect Chauvin is a racist, but I don’t have tangible proof at this point. When his record is made public (against the protestations of his union I suspect) I won’t be surprised to see it. But I get it, unless a cop is actually recorded saying racist things, then he’s not racist. How convenient. 

As I said, I don’t believe whether Chauvin or cops like him being racist is important as the optic the murder of Floyd suggests. 
 

I think there’s a difference between scapegoating cops as the epitome of all evil vs. some #######s throwing things at them while they are on riot duty. Again, the movement is about having bad cops expunged and the coverups for their actions stopped. There needs to be full transparency at all times in these matters. I can’t blame people for being skeptical when there is enough video proof to suggest a cop was never in danger for his life while he emptied a clip into an unarmed black man. Sorry. 
 

You don’t have to tell me the vast, vast majority of cops are good. I’ve known that all my life. I’m also on record, I believe in the Brees thread, that defunding police would actually work against the interests of the BLM movement. Lots of things get said when tensions are high and I doubt much, if any defunding will occur. 
 

My apologies for mis-characterizing that thin blue line in that manner. I’ve known it’s true meaning my entire life as well. It was a snarky remark and has no place in the discourse. Again, my apologies. 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by K-9

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

 

No political bone.

 

From 2004 to 2013, 511 cops were killed in felonious incidents. There were 540 total offenders, 232 of which were black. Er go, 43% of the offenders were black. During the same time period, the black population is approximately 13%.  13% of the population committing 43% of the crimes. That means nothing to you? 

Appreciate the response. The above is a different statistic than the one we were talking about earlier which I hope you understand is about as meaningless as comparing the velocity of a car to the interest on a savings account. 

 

What you have here is the ratio of police killed by black people to the amount of black people per capita. That's a much different formula than originally proposed, and if you really want I guess we could get into the socioeconomic reasons behind the disparity.

[krf139]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Is it pandering to simply say “what is it that you want me to know? I’m listening”? Because that’s something that I’ve struggled with quite a bit (not just on this subject but in general). You might find that what you believe isn’t far off from the people that you feel you’d be pandering to...

The pandering is that no opinions are allowed. Any opinion expressed is attacked. Thus, people are silenced and there’s no “conversation.”  Conversation would have entailed folks listening to Brees and having dialogue. Not shaming him into apology. This is why we have a “silent majority” in our society 

[Sig1Hunter]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

You should re-read the post you initially engaged me about because I clearly stated the NFL now agrees with the players and protesters that there is systematic oppression (racism) against blacks. Read the article and you’ll see that. If it makes you feel any better, I suspect Chauvin is a racist, but I don’t have tangible proof at this point. When his record is made public (against the protestations of his union I suspect) I won’t be surprised to see it. But I get it, unless a cop is actually recorded saying racist things, then he’s not racist. How convenient. 

You don’t have to tell me the vast, vast majority of cops are good. I’ve known that all my life. I’m also on record, I believe in the Brees thread, that defunding police would actually work against the interests of the BLM movement. Lots of things get said when tensions are high and I doubt much, if any defunding will occur. 
 

My apologies for mis-characterizing that thin blue line in that manner. I’ve known it’s true meaning my entire life as well. It was a snarky remark and has no place in the discourse. Again, my apologies. 

 

 

 

Yeah. I responded with “hurt feelings and anecdotes” as evidence of systematic racism in law enforcement.  To which you responded that the visual of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck is not anecdotal.. therefore you were saying it is actual evidence of racism. There isn’t any evidence of racism, yet, but it is OK that the masses use it as evidence to point to systematic racism in law enforcement? Do you see where you’ve been hoodwinked yet? 

[Putin]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I appreciate that. It was a couple years of the worst situation that you could imagine. It’s a brutal, brutal disease.

 

In terms of the “when” I guess that the anthem is better than 2nd and 6. I’m only kind of kidding here. That’s an opportunity for them when they have their most eyes without having any impact on the actual game. I suppose the 2 minute warning of the 1st half could work? You could do it similar to the 7th inning stretch. It’s a moment that pauses the game to bring eyes on it. Just thinking out loud here...

I think during the 2 minutes before the half ( IMO ) is a GREAT idea !!!! 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Putin

[Sig1Hunter]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Appreciate the response. The above is a different statistic than the one we were talking about earlier which I hope you understand is about as meaningless as comparing the velocity of a car to the interest on a savings account. 

 

What you have here is the ratio of police killed by black people to the amount of black people per capita. That's a much different formula than originally proposed, and if you really want I guess we could get into the socioeconomic reasons behind the disparity.

I believe that is the real discussion that needs to be held, or at least the main one. Law enforcement can be better, and it will continue to get better. But, it needs support. From the leaders of cities and states... but mostly from regular people. I could get cussed at all day long, called every name in the book... but having a random person come up and say “thank you” makes it all worth it, and washes all of the previous frustrations away. 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Appreciate the response. The above is a different statistic than the one we were talking about earlier which I hope you understand is about as meaningless as comparing the velocity of a car to the interest on a savings account. 

 

What you have here is the ratio of police killed by black people to the amount of black people per capita. That's a much different formula than originally proposed, and if you really want I guess we could get into the socioeconomic reasons behind the disparity.

Do you believe that criminal violence rates play any kind of role in the difference in statistics?

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Yeah. I responded with “hurt feelings and anecdotes” as evidence of systematic racism in law enforcement.  To which you responded that the visual of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck is not anecdotal.. therefore you were saying it is actual evidence of racism. There isn’t any evidence of racism, yet, but it is OK that the masses use it as evidence to point to systematic racism in law enforcement? Do you see where you’ve been hoodwinked yet? 

Hoodwinked? Not even close. And did you not read the part where I said I have no tangible evidence that Chauvin is a racist? I don’t claim Chauvin is a racist. Indeed, I claim it’s immaterial to the cause. The optic is enough. That’s obvious. 
 

In the absence of someone witnessed actually saying racist things, what proof would suffice for you?  Ok, so unarmed black men seen on video getting killed by cops wasn’t racist. Why then? Why the ultimate use of excessive force? 
 

And please don’t hand me the company line about them being in fear for their lives. 
 

Regarding our exchange around the use of the word “anecdotal”, I was disagreeing with the idea that the Floyd murder in itself wasn’t “anecdotal.” You were completely centered around the idea of racism and I was approaching it in a much larger sense. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by K-9

[FireChans]

Just now, K-9 said:

Hoodwinked? Not even close. And did you not read the part where I said I have no tangible evidence that Chauvin is a racist? I don’t claim Chauvin is a racist. Indeed, I claim it’s immaterial to the cause. The optic is enough. That’s obvious. 
 

In the absence of someone witnessed actually saying racist things, what proof would suffice for you?  Ok, so unarmed black men seen on video getting killed by cops wasn’t racist. Why then? Why the ultimate use of excessive force? 
 

And please don’t hand me the company line about them being in fear for their lives. 
 

 

Did you know that an analysis of Philly police shootings found that black officers actually had more frequent shootings than white officers in unarmed black suspects?