There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Likewise busy. I go into an empty office building in the morning and then work from home in the afternoon. We’re using the Webex platform. The best thing about this mess is that you can finally drive on the SoCal freeways again! 

 

Yes I'm in the office three days a week.  Pick up mail and process biz for my team.  I really hope they all appreciate that.  And I was just thinking as I was driving home Thursday at 6pm "when this is over I'm going to hate the ***** freeways again."  

[123719bwiqrb]

5 minutes ago, shoshin said:

No. Those are people who had symptoms or are in high risk jobs. So if you expect 75% of people are already infected, those tests should be running much much higher. Yet they are not. 

I think what we (or at least what I am thinking) is without good data, we are just guessing.  I'd love to get 300M tests out there, but I on't see that happening for 12 months

[Magox]

31 minutes ago, ALF said:

 China's Wuhan to keep testing residents as coronavirus lockdown eases

 

WUHAN, China (Reuters) - China’s Wuhan city, where the global coronavirus pandemic began, is still testing residents regularly despite relaxing its tough two-month lockdown, with the country wary of a rebound in cases even as it sets its sights on normalising the economy.

 

“We carry out comprehensive health checks everyday and keep detailed records of their health condition,” she said, adding that there is no likelihood of asymptomatic cases in her community.

 

“Currently our neighbourhood is an epidemic-free community - it’s been 45 days so far, so we don’t have this situation,” she said.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china/chinas-wuhan-to-keep-testing-residents-as-coronavirus-lockdown-eases-idUSKCN21S0FV
 

This will be the place to keep a eye on

 

Why should anyone trust anything coming from China?   They have discredited themselves and the only way that any government should believe what they have to say is if they can somehow verify it for themselves.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I loved that album! Played it over and over again. What ever happened to those guys?

Their material got progressively worse, then the main singer split off from the other guys. That about did it for Supertramp. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

Terrible idea.   Hopefully they reject this abomination of a proposal.

I agree completely.  I traveled out of the country in late Jan until almost mid February and passed through JFK both ways. I may have been exposed, don’t recall any major symptoms though. Anyway, what if I wasn’t ? The government told  me to stay home so I didn’t get or spread Corona, but now they’re going to give hall passes only to those who had it ? WTF ? Can they just give me the virus so I can get a hall pass and not a scarlet letter ? 

[shoshin]

36 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

I think what we (or at least what I am thinking) is without good data, we are just guessing.  I'd love to get 300M tests out there, but I on't see that happening for 12 months

 

 

This is just PA, but *most* of the tests (83%) are running negative. And those would be people who are getting tested because they had symptoms or are in high risk jobs so you would expect them to have a much higher rate of positives than your 75%, yet the positives among that group is only 17%. The 75% number doesn't hold water for a lot of reasons. I find it strange that you and others try to minimize this. It's real and it's serious.  

 

I say this from the perspective of someone who is desperate to reactivate the economy. Personally and as a citizen, I am desperate to do this. But we need to do it with some foresight and planning to avoid a much worse outbreak or future shutdowns. I'm not sure we can but I'd like to give it a try. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by shoshin

[ALF]

34 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Why should anyone trust anything coming from China?   They have discredited themselves and the only way that any government should believe what they have to say is if they can somehow verify it for themselves.

 

No one should trust China . Have the CDC  and WHO  go there to verify.  I know WHO lost credibility also , now they have to rebuild their trust if they want funding.

[123719bwiqrb]

8 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

 

This is just PA, but *most* of the tests (83%) are running negative. And those would be people who are getting tested because they had symptoms or are in high risk jobs so you would expect them to have a much higher rate of positives than your 75%, yet the positives among that group is only 17%. The 75% number doesn't hold water for a lot of reasons. I find it strange that you and others try to minimize this. It's real and it's serious.  

 

I say this from the perspective of someone who is desperate to reactivate the economy. Personally and as a citizen, I am desperate to do this. But we need to do it with some foresight and planning to avoid a much worse outbreak or future shutdowns. I'm not sure we can but I'd like to give it a try. 

 

These are tests of active cases!  Not people that had it for 2 weeks and self resolved.  This data reveals very little.

 

I agree we are in a serious conundrum.  Lack of both tests are what is going to ultimately kill the american dream.  It's over without mass testing in a few weeks.

[shoshin]

47 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Why should anyone trust anything coming from China?   They have discredited themselves and the only way that any government should believe what they have to say is if they can somehow verify it for themselves.

 

So much of what we knew initially came from China. Then Italy (mostly) lead the way with data. Now it's us. The only good news is that with every country trying a different approach, we are getting a fast look at what works well in treatment and social measures. If you take a look at the UK, which was open way longer than the rest of Europe, they are getting bombed now in deaths. Boris Johnson (who I personally hope is doing well) looks to have made a bad choice keeping things open. The UK's deaths/day is already higher than Italy ever got. 

 

Sweden is doing well but that's probably a demographic blip where something like 50% of their U30 population lives alone, and they tend to socially distance a little more naturally, plus they live more spread out. 

 

Still can't explain some places: Japan (!!!), Mexico, Brazil, India. Possibly the latter 3 have bad data but you would think given population density, those would be huge outbreak centers. And Japan with 38 million people in Tokyo and an aging population...same, even given their culture of distance and cleanliness.

 

My armchair CDC opinion is that come June 1, we should act in behavior like the Japanese (masks, distancing, no handshakes etc), trace and test like the Koreans if we have the capability, protect the older populations by asking them to stay home, and keep gatherings of over [a small number...20?] to a bare minimum. Then if cases remain under control, start raising that minimal number gradually. I don't love the idea of the certificates but I would have to know more what that line of thinking is. If I could flash my digital certificate that I was either immune or had a clean test in the last 2 days and that allowed me to go into a crowded restaurant, I might be OK with that. It's better than the restaurant staying empty. But if we're saying anyone without a negative test or immunity has to stay home, that would be troubling. 

 

5 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

I agree we are in a serious conundrum.  Lack of both tests are what is going to ultimately kill the american dream.  It's over without mass testing in a few weeks.

 

I agree with this. We can brag all we want about the progress we have made, and that's legitimate, but until the tests are as easy to get as a tic tac, we need magnitudes more. Daily tests for many jobs (people who come into lots of contact with others like nursing home workers) should be a requirement if/once we have the capability. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by shoshin

[RochesterRob]

24 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

So much of what we knew initially came from China. Then Italy (mostly) lead the way with data. Now it's us. The only good news is that with every country trying a different approach, we are getting a fast look at what works well in treatment and social measures. If you take a look at the UK, which was open way longer than the rest of Europe, they are getting bombed now in deaths. Boris Johnson (who I personally hope is doing well) looks to have made a bad choice keeping things open. The UK's deaths/day is already higher than Italy ever got. 

 

Sweden is doing well but that's probably a demographic blip where something like 50% of their U30 population lives alone, and they tend to socially distance a little more naturally, plus they live more spread out. 

 

Still can't explain some places: Japan (!!!), Mexico, Brazil, India. Possibly the latter 3 have bad data but you would think given population density, those would be huge outbreak centers. And Japan with 38 million people in Tokyo and an aging population...same, even given their culture of distance and cleanliness.

 

My armchair CDC opinion is that come June 1, we should act in behavior like the Japanese (masks, distancing, no handshakes etc), trace and test like the Koreans if we have the capability, protect the older populations by asking them to stay home, and keep gatherings of over [a small number...20?] to a bare minimum. Then if cases remain under control, start raising that minimal number gradually. I don't love the idea of the certificates but I would have to know more what that line of thinking is. If I could flash my digital certificate that I was either immune or had a clean test in the last 2 days and that allowed me to go into a crowded restaurant, I might be OK with that. It's better than the restaurant staying empty. But if we're saying anyone without a negative test or immunity has to stay home, that would be troubling. 

 

 

I agree with this. We can brag all we want about the progress we have made, and that's legitimate, but until the tests are as easy to get as a tic tac, we need magnitudes more. Daily tests for many jobs (people who come into lots of contact with others like nursing home workers) should be a requirement if/once we have the capability. 

  Recent relations in terms of Japan with China have been poor so I would guess that there is very minimal Chinese traffic trough Tokyo.  Also, that health care is generally poorer in eastern Asia versus the West more screening is probably done to visitors coming into Japan.

[Walking Tall]

How about this....

 

For those that want to stay home, stay home. Cops, Health Care workers, whoever....feel free to stay home. This is America. You have a choice. Just don't expect pay. With jobs come risks.

 

For those that want to go to work, and basically not have any restrictions, that's fine too.

 

If you are fearful, no problem. Stay home. Quarantine yourself. Nobody will stop you for maxing out in the safety department.

[RochesterRob]

8 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

How about this....

 

For those that want to stay home, stay home. Cops, Health Care workers, whoever....feel free to stay home. This is America. You have a choice. Just don't expect pay. With jobs come risks.

 

For those that want to go to work, and basically not have any restrictions, that's fine too.

 

If you are fearful, no problem. Stay home. Quarantine yourself. Nobody will stop you for maxing out in the safety department.

  I think that the vast majority of people want to work.  A lot of these people are subject to the state in that the state makes the call as to if the employer is allowed to operate.  

[Nanker]

On 4/9/2020 at 8:22 AM, Magox said:

 

We have been doing it in our household for about a year now.

 

The company that I work for, my entire team works remotely except one call center in which we have move them all remotely and are considering permanently making that transition.

 

All the trainings, meetings, meeting with vendors etc are all done via Zoom.

 

Thankfully our business is not going to get impacted at all from this, most likely will even benefit not just from a revenue standpoint but even recruiting standpoint.

 

I do think that this Virus will change human behavior along with business practices.  Even for the environmentalists, I do think that the demand for gasoline will drop post Covid 19, as more and more people will work out of home.

I can only imagine the recession in the business corporate office complexes that will take place. Businesses who occupy those leased spaces will probably end up using a tenth of what they did previously. There's going to be a lot of vacancies in those vast complexes. 

[Walking Tall]

11 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I think that the vast majority of people want to work.  A lot of these people are subject to the state in that the state makes the call as to if the employer is allowed to operate.  

 

Agreed.

 

The problem being our government doesn't exactly have the best track record of doing the right things.

 

When you have both sides of the aisle beating their chest and telling us how we could have had 2.4 million deaths if not for their actions........buyer beware.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Binghamton Beast

[B-Man]

 

Report: Trump Pushing ‘Behind Closed Doors’ To Reopen Much Of U.S. Next Month.

 

 

 

.

[B-Man]

 

 

Doctors: Eight Reasons to End the Lockdowns Now. 

 

I’d give it a week or two more, myself. But it was never meant to be more than a temporary response.

 

Now the thing to do is to let up in areas where it’s safe to do so, in ways that maximize benefits while minimizing increased danger. NYC, on the other hand, will have to stay locked down for quite a while longer.

 

Excerpt: “Those who want to continue the lockdown indefinitely should show clear evidence regarding the benefits of indefinite lockdown. There needs to be a clear reliable model that shows how many additional lives will be saved considering we have already flattened the curve and there is essentially no further risk of overwhelming the health care system. The previous models were wrong. The consequences of indefinite lockdown are quite staggering, to the tune of one million jobs lost per day.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Deranged Rhino]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

You think that from December to May, over 75% of the country will have gotten Covid19?

 

So this is the most contagious disease of all time by a fantastic margin never before seen in history? 
 

I am guessing you don’t work at the CDC. 

 

You're presuming the outbreak started in December.

 

There are some signs that it started much sooner than that (because "China is #######") -- in which case the "wave" we're experiencing now is the second wave rather than the first. 

 

Conclusive? Nope. Not by a long shot. But that's why the antibody testing (not Covid testing) is going to be so interesting when that becomes widespread. 

 

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

 

This is just PA, but *most* of the tests (83%) are running negative. And those would be people who are getting tested because they had symptoms or are in high risk jobs so you would expect them to have a much higher rate of positives than your 75%, yet the positives among that group is only 17%. The 75% number doesn't hold water for a lot of reasons. I find it strange that you and others try to minimize this. It's real and it's serious.  

 

I say this from the perspective of someone who is desperate to reactivate the economy. Personally and as a citizen, I am desperate to do this. But we need to do it with some foresight and planning to avoid a much worse outbreak or future shutdowns. I'm not sure we can but I'd like to give it a try. 

 

Testing is not as important as antibody testing. 

 

Want to re-open the country? Don't focus on testing for the virus, focus on the antibodies. That's why the push for "BUT TESTING!" has always been a useless talking point pushed for political reasons. 

[RochesterRob]

27 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Report: Trump Pushing ‘Behind Closed Doors’ To Reopen Much Of U.S. Next Month.

 

 

 

.

  So is Trump going to issue ultimatums to the state governors?  I am very pessimistic that Cuomo will reopen the state outside of NYC by May 1.

[Numark3]

The funniest part about the thread is how many of you don’t actually leave your house to “work”

[B-Man]

 

 

Texas to Lead the Way Back: Gov. Abbott to Sign Order Next Week About Reopening Businesses

Nick Arama