BringBackOrton Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Doc said: More points per drive is the definition of a more efficient offense. The game is won based on points, not plays and yards. Yeah but it was an efficient 6-10... Right, but the Bills offense had the 8th best starting field position and the Jags had the 32nd. The numbers are always affected by the other numbers. That’s why the stats are fun to talk about but aren’t the end all be all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Right, but the Bills offense had the 8th best starting field position and the Jags had the 32nd. The numbers are always affected by the other numbers. That’s why the stats are fun to talk about but aren’t the end all be all. Fair enough. But then definitive statements shouldn't be made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, K-9 said: Spare us the self righteous indignation. I asked a legitimate question about your understanding of the difference between being a passer and being a quarterback and you chose to reply with snark. Your hypocrisy is noted. You did not ask a legitimate question. You were trying to embarrass me. That's why you used the word "yet" at the end. Stop pretending you're 6. Let me give you an example so it makes it easier for you to understand you weren't asking anything legitimate. Did you learn to behave yet? Do you know the difference between a legitimate question and being arrogant yet? Now of course I would never say those things to you. That's just a demonstration your question wasn't legit. Of course I know the difference between a QB and a passer. You built a strawman like a politician would and in the end you'll make a conclusion I never intended or said, but somehow you're right no matter what. Congrats you win!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: yep. I think PFF is one of the worst offenders of using stats to push an agenda. I don't believe they consider the stats, because Allen has better stats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: I stopped at PFF. You should too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Right, but the Bills offense had the 8th best starting field position and the Jags had the 32nd. The numbers are always affected by the other numbers. That’s why the stats are fun to talk about but aren’t the end all be all. Better starting field position doesn't correlate with better QB stats as far as I know. In fact, I could easily see how it might depress them. Receiver drops, however, do. And the Bills offense suffered from dropped passes at a very high rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Better starting field position doesn't correlate with better QB stats as far as I know. In fact, I could easily see how it might depress them. Receiver drops, however, do. And the Bills offense suffered from dropped passes at a very high rate. Better average field position would likely correlate with offensive points per drive, however. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Better average field position would likely correlate with offensive points per drive, however. I would tend to think so. I haven't done the research but would be worth looking into how defensive efficiency effects offensive output like points/drive etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I would tend to think so. I haven't done the research but would be worth looking into how defensive efficiency effects offensive output like points/drive etc Yeah but according to the chart I saw, it was a difference of just 3 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 This is sensational, what should be a non topic is this many pages deep!?!? One clown shoes poster says hed take Minshew over Allen, and we entertain it? We dismiss how awful PFF'S takes are, but one comment about Minshew over Allen gets validated? What goes on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: Yeah but according to the chart I saw, it was a difference of just 3 yards. That's what I'm seeing too which I'm willing to chalk up to noise PS Bills also had better drive success rate and more points/red zone appearance. I don't see Jags offense being more efficient than ours in any meaningful way at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I would tend to think so. I haven't done the research but would be worth looking into how defensive efficiency effects offensive output like points/drive etc Football is so hard to statistically narrow down. I’d imagine it would be weakly positive at best, considering how few samples would exist, how many good offenses score a lot regardless, and how many trash offenses get carried by defenses. 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Yeah but according to the chart I saw, it was a difference of just 3 yards. On average? The median starting field position would probably be the best indicator, but good luck finding that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, MJS said: I don't believe they consider the stats, because Allen has better stats for sure. ? 35 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: You did not ask a legitimate question. You were trying to embarrass me. That's why you used the word "yet" at the end. He does have a point here. 15 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: This is sensational, what should be a non topic is this many pages deep!?!? One clown shoes poster says hed take Minshew over Allen, and we entertain it? We dismiss how awful PFF'S takes are, but one comment about Minshew over Allen gets validated? What goes on I'm just guessing, but I expect what goes on is, it's the off season and people want to debate something. Was this a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ? He does have a point here. I'm just guessing, but I expect what goes on is, it's the off season and people want to debate something. Was this a trick question? There is debate and there is goating people into responses. Much like we all just bashed PFF for doing, yet we there is engagement with a poster doing the same exact thing. Seems a little silly, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: There is debate and there is goating people into responses. Much like we all just bashed PFF for doing, yet we there is engagement with a poster doing the same exact thing. Seems a little silly, no? Of course you're right, but it goes both ways; if someone is obviously goading, just don't respond. But if people want to respond, it's their right as long as it stays within bounds 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Here's a ton of per-drive stats broken down into pretty relevant sections imo https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/overall-drive-statsoff/2019 You'll notice a whole lotta Buffalo being better than Jax in almost every category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 More "efficient". I wonder what that actually means. More productive, I get. Efficiency ought to mean, did they take advantage of great field position when they got it. Did they get into position for a late TD or FG at the end of the half. Did they take what the defense game them. I am not sure how to run the numbers on any of those things. This all seems pretty subjective to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: Yeah but according to the chart I saw, it was a difference of just 3 yards. And the difference in scoring was like .2 points per drive. That’s one point for every 5 drives which would total 15 yards of field position. 7 points for each 105 yards of field position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 If you were a GM and you had to select between Allen and Minshew, who would you select to lead your team? I suspect all 32 GMs would pick Allen. I predict the Jags will be cute and start Minshew who will become the QB teams avoided drafting. His productivity went down once teams had tape to study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BigBillsFan said: You did not ask a legitimate question. You were trying to embarrass me. That's why you used the word "yet" at the end. Stop pretending you're 6. Let me give you an example so it makes it easier for you to understand you weren't asking anything legitimate. Did you learn to behave yet? Do you know the difference between a legitimate question and being arrogant yet? Now of course I would never say those things to you. That's just a demonstration your question wasn't legit. Of course I know the difference between a QB and a passer. You built a strawman like a politician would and in the end you'll make a conclusion I never intended or said, but somehow you're right no matter what. Congrats you win!!! The word “yet” is the qualifier; the legit question detector? I’ve actually asked that question of you previoisly and you didn’t want to answer me then, either. Thus the word, ”yet.” If you really understood the difference between a QB and a passer, you’d stop citing passing stats like they’re the be all, end all in all of your posts on the subject. The rest of your response is just more hypocritical, sanctimonious crap. Talk about arrogance. Edited March 10, 2020 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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