plastic bag ban delayed until April 1

[thenorthremembers]

My Local grocery stores switched over on March 1st.  Went shopping twice yesterday and the lines were outrageous.

 

I know its a minor inconvenience, but reading the thread I am glad other people see the hypocrisy of the law.   I stood in line at Tops for 10 minutes yesterday watching the cashier fumble with reusable bags while I looked at gum in plastic containers, fruit punch being sold at a discounted rate in a giant plastic bottle, and pepsi on sale buy 2 get 4 six packs free, thats 36 plastic bottles in the bottom on someone's cart, meanwhile I cant use a plastic bag.

 

The do good lack of common sense government in New York State seems to have no issue with companies mass producing plastic, but they need to do something to be re-elected on the basis of being pro-environment, its a total and absolute farce.  

 

In other news, my county switched from multiple recycling containers to one "large" receptacle that can only be picked up once every two weeks.  The "large" container is the same size as the total volume of the three "little" receptacles I used in the past, except those were picked up once a week.  End game is the "large" receptacle is full by the end of the first week and I have no option to recycle the plastic I use during the second week.

 

This is not about the environment.  The plastic bag law is being used to engender good feelings among voters, same as the ridiculous "no bail" law.   

[Buffalo_Gal]

Along with the jump in plastic trash bags, how much does doing a washing machine load of reusable bags every shopping trip (which you really should be doing to avoid fun things like e-coli, etc) impact the environment? The water, electric, soap, etc add up.

I use reusable bags for everything except meat (plastic bags), and have for a good 15+ years now. But, I can see why people would want plastic bags. They are not one-time-use, and putting meat/poultry/seafood in a reusable bag is no bueno.

[ExiledInIllinois]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Along with the jump in plastic trash bags, how much does doing a washing machine load of reusable bags every shopping trip (which you really should be doing to avoid fun things like e-coli, etc) impact the environment? The water, electric, soap, etc add up.

I use reusable bags for everything except meat (plastic bags), and have for a good 15+ years now. But, I can see why people would want plastic bags. They are not one-time-use, and putting meat/poultry/seafood in a reusable bag is no bueno.

Yet... Meat in a plastic bag becomes "one-time" if it leaks... Ain't gonna pack your espadrilles in them for in ontop of your clothes in the suitcase for that Cancun trip.

 

NOW... WITH that being said... Is it so hard to stick it in the recycling can?  No... The recyclers do NOT want them. It gums up their sorters.  It's all about $$$$. And LABOR.  Don't automate the process.

 

I still stick them in the recycling can.  Yet, I stick them in other plastic containers.  They hate that too.  Tough.  Invent better ways to recycle.  I am doing my part, going the extra mile "hyper recycling."

Edited March 3, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[Dante]

On 2/29/2020 at 9:12 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

It's stupid... Enviro do gooders doing more harm.  As usual, the road to hell is paved with good intentions:

 

It will hurt the environment even more:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

 

My 84 year old MiL is fit to be tied... She never bought garbage bags in her life... Always reuses, repurposes... She throws out her garbage daily in one bag.  Most people will now by thicker bags, worse for the environment... All because a few slobs can't take care of their mess and do gooder enviros think they gotta be helicopter parents with the earth...

 

I save them too... I will just bring her a year's supply.

 

There is a person who uses them to make sleeping mats for the homeless... The ban is squeezing them out:

 

https://www.1millionwomen.com.au/blog/diy-crochet-plastic-bags-sleeping-mats-homeless/

 

Like everything w/Greens... It's a $$$$ grab that backfires and causes more damage.

So true. In our business we deal in a lot of tee shirts. By the case (72 pieces). The push for a while was for recycled cardboard boxes. Great right? Makes sense? But not really. The recycled boxes are good for one use only. They are flimsy and you destroy them after you unpack your stuff. 

On the other hand the new boxes are much tougher and can be reshipped many times. Lots of times you will see multiple UPS labels over each other.

[DrDawkinstein]

The best part of this thread is how out-of-his-mind triggered EiL is over moving away from plastic bags. From the conspiracy theories, to the cute nicknames he has for anyone involved. My man, you are going full PPP on this.

[Buffalo_Gal]

25 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yet... Meat in a plastic bag becomes "one-time" if it leaks... Ain't gonna pack your espadrilles in them for in ontop of your clothes in the suitcase for that Cancun trip.

 

NOW... WITH that being said... Is it so hard to stick it in the recycling can?  No... The recyclers do NOT want them. It gums up their sorters.  It's all about $$$$. And LABOR.  Don't automate the process.

 

I still stick them in the recycling can.  Yet, I stick them in other plastic containers.  They hate that too.  Tough.  Invent better ways to recycle.  I am doing my part, going the extra mile "hyper recycling."

People are screeching about every stinking sniffle these days and someone is gonna B word about not reusing a leaking meat-plastic bag?

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Oh... I am busy... I gotta breakdown my mutiple Amazon boxes I got today... Should I burn then in fireplace or give them to the government/private company (we have private company garbage collection here) "paper drive?"

[BringBackFergy]

On 3/1/2020 at 11:07 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

No people are irresponsible.  They take the bag, they don't need to.  Corporations aren't acting irresponsible.  The comsumer is if they throw them unused in regular rubbish.

 

The recyclers are too.  No reason why you can't put bags in when you separate your garbage. The recyclers are just too lazy to handle them.  And they are under staffed picking up at curb.  Only one guy driving and picking up.  Why they want stuff loose in toter... Then recyclables blow all over town.

 

Once again... War on labor.  Forced automation.

Yup.  All all a scam.  I see them mix it.

I’m currently teaching my Mom (82 yrs old) to use the plastic grocery bag to pick up her dog’s poop. I showed her how to put her hand in, grab the turds, then bring the hand back out while grasping the fecal matter. The big is now inverted with the crap inside. She’s learned how to re-use the bags by spreading the contents on her gardens down here, taking the bags to the kitchen sink, rinsing them out with some organic cleaning solution and hanging them on the lanai furniture to air dry for the next morning. So I feel that Mom and I have done our part. It makes me feel good...isn’t that what it’s all about?

[DrDawkinstein]

We proudly use our Wegmans reusable bags down here at Kroger and Publix. Have a whole trunk full of them. Doesnt slow any bagging time down (although that may be because the baggers are already slow in the South)

 

And we've been using the thin, biodegradable dog poop bags for years.

 

Life will go on without plastic grocery bags.

 

I do love ya, EiL, and am mostly busting your chops. But man you seem upset over something so trivial.

[Teddy KGB]

Plastic Bag Meltdown. 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Plastic Bag Meltdown. 

 

Is that our new band name?

[IDBillzFan]

33 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Plastic Bag Meltdown. 

 

I lived in CA when they instituted the ban there. I can't remember the specific details, but the state passed the ban, but made it effective something like six months later. 

 

The problem is virtually no one reminded residents, so suddenly...one day...people are being charged 10-cents a bag because they didn't remember to bring their own reusable bags.

 

This pissed off pretty much everyone, and they would take it out on the checkers. I actually got into it with a person in front of me at checkout one day for berating the checker. I found myself saying rather loudly, "Look, I understand you're upset but this checker has literally nothing to do with your problem. You're yelling at the wrong person. Leave them the hell alone."

 

I had checkers in that Vons thanking me for three months after that.

 

Viva la Checkers! 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The best part of this thread is how out-of-his-mind triggered EiL is over moving away from plastic bags. From the conspiracy theories, to the cute nicknames he has for anyone involved. My man, you are going full PPP on this.

 

Very PPP. I'd get warning for that much PPP.

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 3/3/2020 at 8:11 AM, SoTier said:

 

Really?  What evidence?   Post a link or it's simply your opinion.

 

 

Due to my error and what was perceived to be my incendiary behavior, I apologize.

 

Just so it's on record that I answered your reply with facts.  I did... But it disappeared due to a few misteps I made.  Please... I am replying to a poster... Don't delete it.

 

Okay... Let's try this again.  There is more plastic leakage into environment after bag bans... Thicker bag consumption goes up ~120%:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

 

Plastic leakage into environment:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095069618305291?via%3Dihub

 

People's personal habits are pretty set in this graph.  After 12 months... Those habits are engrained, the bottom simply doesn't drop out with those thicker 4 & 8 gallon bags.

 

Now... A 4 & 8 gallon Hefty® bag is way thicker than a plastic grocery bag.

 

FWIW... This isn't about me on a crusade.  I am just arguing the other side of the argument... We make these mistakes all the time by not thinking things through while following our hearts.  Bans aren't the way to do it. Changing people's behavior withOUT drastic bans is the way. Same with all kinds of other issues.  More harm is done with these shocks to the system and people's behaviors.

 

Sorry to preach... I will tone down the rhetoric.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[SoTier]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:10 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Due to my error and what was perceived to be my incendiary behavior, I apologize.

 

Just so it's on record that I answered your reply with facts.  I did... But it disappeared due to a few misteps I made.  Please... I am replying to a poster... Don't delete it.

 

Okay... Let's try this again.  There is more plastic leakage into environment after bag bans... Thicker bag consumption goes up ~120%:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

 

Plastic leakage into environment:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095069618305291?via%3Dihub

 

People's personal habits are pretty set in this graph.  After 12 months... Those habits are engrained, the bottom simply doesn't drop out with those thicker 4 & 8 gallon bags.

 

Now... A 4 & 8 gallon Hefty® bag is way thicker than a plastic grocery bag.

 

FWIW... This isn't about me on a crusade.  I am just arguing the other side of the argument... We make these mistakes all the time by not thinking things through while following our hearts.  Bans aren't the way to do it. Changing people's behavior withOUT drastic bans is the way. Same with all kinds of other issues.  More harm is done with these shocks to the system and people's behaviors.

 

Sorry to preach... I will tone down the rhetoric.

 

 

 

 

I missed your original reply because it was gone before I returned to this site.  No matter.  Here's my thoughts on the "research" you presented as well as some of the comments made by some other posters. 

1. The numerous articles under this topic mostly cite the same article, often at second or third hand. It may be that the study's emphasis was misplaced or misinterpreted by the authors who used the data for their articles but I doubt that.  In her quotes,  study's author seemed convinced that she had "proved" that the bans are "bad". 
2.  The most serious flaw with the study is that it doesn't account for volume of sales.  I don't know what percentage of trash bags sold in the US  are 30 gallon or higher, but my guess is that they make up at least 80 of the sales just from looking at story displays.  For easy math, say that 100 represents all trash bags sold.  80% of that is 80 bags.  Now, if that the sales of the large bags jumped 120% then that increase would be terrible ... the total bags sold would jump to 196, with 176 of them being large bags.  A 120% increase in the small bags would yield an 24 bags however, so it's not quite as drastic ... but not all of the small bag market share went up by 120%: the 13 gallon bag sales increased barely 10% and the 8 gallon bag sales topped out at about 80% increase, so the 120% increase was for only 1 small segment of the total bag sales -- and at the end of the study period was trending downward.
3. This study doesn't look at the differences in what happens to the vast majority of single-use plastic bags vs trash bags.  Trash bags generally wind up in landfills.  Single use plastic bags that are used for trash or thrown into trash bins also generally wind up in landfills. The bans on these bags aren't aimed at those.  Landfills aren't the best thing in the world but it's better than single use plastic bags littering the environment and causing problems.
4. The first word in the phrase "reduce, reuse, recycle" is reuse.  A single reusable shopping bag can be used hundreds of times, significantly reducing litter in the environment and space in landfills.  Some of my bags have got to be approaching 1000 uses as they're more than a decade old.  Unfortunately, voluntary efforts to reduce the use of single use plastic bags haven't produced good enough results.
5. The reuse and recycling of single use plastic bags have also failed to significantly diminish the unwanted presence of these bags in the landscape, waterways, sewage plants, etc.
6. Unless you have some kind of leakage in your shopping bags, they do not have to be washed weekly since most of foods purchased in supermarkets come in packages of some kind, including fresh produce which can be put into small plastic bags.
7. Look at the bright side:  if bans on single use plastic bags increase the demand for paper grocery bags, the prices paid by recyclers for paper may increase, which would be a boon for all the Cub Scouts and other organizations doing paper drives.  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RaoulDuke79]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:51 AM, Buffalo_Gal said:

Along with the jump in plastic trash bags, how much does doing a washing machine load of reusable bags every shopping trip (which you really should be doing to avoid fun things like e-coli, etc) impact the environment? The water, electric, soap, etc add up.

I use reusable bags for everything except meat (plastic bags), and have for a good 15+ years now. But, I can see why people would want plastic bags. They are not one-time-use, and putting meat/poultry/seafood in a reusable bag is no bueno.

Hippies dont wash anything.....they just douse it with patchouli oil.

[SoTier]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:51 AM, Buffalo_Gal said:

Along with the jump in plastic trash bags, how much does doing a washing machine load of reusable bags every shopping trip (which you really should be doing to avoid fun things like e-coli, etc) impact the environment? The water, electric, soap, etc add up.

I use reusable bags for everything except meat (plastic bags), and have for a good 15+ years now. But, I can see why people would want plastic bags. They are not one-time-use, and putting meat/poultry/seafood in a reusable bag is no bueno.

 

Seriously, ma'am, are you washing all the bags for your entire block every week?  I think I could wash more than fifty reusable cloth bags in 1 load in my washing machine.   Moreover, I didn't realize a person could get e-coli from a putting a box of crackers next to a sealed chunk of cheddar next to a non-leaking carton of milk next to a bottle of V-8, next to two cans of mushroom soup top by a box of tissue and a bag of Ore Ida shoestrings.  I guess I learn something new every day even at my age.

 

Your arguments are coming from the same place the dire warnings of the anti-seat belt crowd about the dangers of being trapped in a burning car by a seat belt: Hysteria via Exaggerationville.

Edited March 5, 2020 by SoTier

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 2/29/2020 at 10:19 PM, Marv's Neighbor said:

OK, you can buy them but what's the penalty for actually using them?  Maybe they could be converted into face masks for all the germaphobes?

 

 

...NYS Big Fredo says death by hanging.......what's even better is that manufacturers are forecasting a five year shortage due to insufficient time to ramp up for expected demand as well as never being consulted on the proposed legislation....typical "Big Fredo BS".....

[RaoulDuke79]

In this vein, why dont we get rid of all the disposable water bottles? I'm all for that. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I missed your original reply because it was gone before I returned to this site.  No matter.  Here's my thoughts on the "research" you presented as well as some of the comments made by some other posters. 

1. The numerous articles under this topic mostly cite the same article, often at second or third hand. It may be that the study's emphasis was misplaced or misinterpreted by the authors who used the data for their articles but I doubt that.  In her quotes,  study's author seemed convinced that she had "proved" that the bans are "bad". 
2.  The most serious flaw with the study is that it doesn't account for volume of sales.  I don't know what percentage of trash bags sold in the US  are 30 gallon or higher, but my guess is that they make up at least 80 of the sales just from looking at story displays.  For easy math, say that 100 represents all trash bags sold.  80% of that is 80 bags.  Now, if that the sales of the large bags jumped 120% then that increase would be terrible ... the total bags sold would jump to 196, with 176 of them being large bags.  A 120% increase in the small bags would yield an 24 bags however, so it's not quite as drastic ... but not all of the small bag market share went up by 120%: the 13 gallon bag sales increased barely 10% and the 8 gallon bag sales topped out at about 80% increase, so the 120% increase was for only 1 small segment of the total bag sales -- and at the end of the study period was trending downward.
3. This study doesn't look at the differences in what happens to the vast majority of single-use plastic bags vs trash bags.  Trash bags generally wind up in landfills.  Single use plastic bags that are used for trash or thrown into trash bins also generally wind up in landfills. The bans on these bags aren't aimed at those.  Landfills aren't the best thing in the world but it's better than single use plastic bags littering the environment and causing problems.
4. The first word in the phrase "reduce, reuse, recycle" is reuse.  A single reusable shopping bag can be used hundreds of times, significantly reducing litter in the environment and space in landfills.  Some of my bags have got to be approaching 1000 uses as they're more than a decade old.  Unfortunately, voluntary efforts to reduce the use of single use plastic bags haven't produced good enough results.
5. The reuse and recycling of single use plastic bags have also failed to significantly diminish the unwanted presence of these bags in the landscape, waterways, sewage plants, etc.
6. Unless you have some kind of leakage in your shopping bags, they do not have to be washed weekly since most of foods purchased in supermarkets come in packages of some kind, including fresh produce which can be put into small plastic bags.
7. Look at the bright side:  if bans on single use plastic bags increase the demand for paper grocery bags, the prices paid by recyclers for paper may increase, which would be a boon for all the Cub Scouts and other organizations doing paper drives.  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You make some good points.  Ain't it against the law to go into somebody's recycle bin.  Organizations will never see that, the local gov't is getting the cut now.

 

Recyclers hate the bags pure and simple... It gums up their sorters.

 

How hard would it be to throw these bags in with common recycling?  Yet, they want you to throw loose into the cans/toters so one guy can drive the truck and grab and dump with the arm... Other items alreadtly fly around town on windy days.

 

I get it, charge people so they consume less... Especially the ones that waste... That's a good thing.  It should have never gotten to this point.

 

How much are buying bags going to add to a big shopping order... A whopping $1-2?

 

It ain't going to solve the problem, just make it worse... Those 8 & 4 gallon bags are many times thicker.

And that's a lot more plastic leaking into the environment.

[RaoulDuke79]

Well well well......looks like with the toilet paper shortage these plastic bags may be the saving grace. Life is full of surprises. 

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Timing was perfect...

Plastic bag ban..

Global Pandemic..

People bringing dirty bags from home into stores..

5 cent bag charge

I ❤️ New York