Can Oliver catch Donald?

[njbuff]

Only if Donald doesn't get a head start. Then Oliver can catch him.

[Rocket94]

On 11/29/2019 at 5:09 PM, BisonMan said:

Ed-O is up to 5 sacks now with 5 games to go. Can he match Aaron Donald’s rookie mark of 9 this year?

 

He seems to be coming on strong after McD dropped his snaps for a wake up call.

Why  not? All it would take is one big game to catapult him.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Rocket94

[MDH]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Ravens have been forcing teams to keep 3 LB on the field with multiple TE sets.    That of course has made passing the ball a lot easier and their TE's are good too so they are generally mismatches for opposing LB's themselves.    Containing Lamar in the pocket hasn't been very effective either.          

 

I’d like to see someone go big nickel and make them keep handing it to Ingram up the middle. As long as the DEs don't keep crashing the middle on the option/handoff (like the Rams did) Lamar would be forced to hand it off most of the time. Keep Lamar from running it and make Ingram be the primary ballcarrier and Lamar use his arm vs a nickel. Of all the options I think thats the least likely to result in 30+ points.

[ctk232]

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

First of all YOU thought the Bills were going to be bad.   Not "we all".

 

Don't put your fear of success on me.   I thought they took a 10 win team to camp in 2017 and after the trades when folks like you were in a panic predicting a tank I accurately predicted that they were going to Jauron Ball their way thru that season.   And I thought they could win 11 games this season and I wasn't alone in thinking that they could be a playoff team.    It looked like the most favorable schedule in the 40 years I've been following the team,  coming in with momentum after a strong finish by Allen last season, added 18 free agents.........if this was a 6 or 7 win team McD was in trouble.   

 

As for draft pick "y".....until the last two weeks Nsekhe was the primary RT.    Ford was a bit player who was being played at peril just to get him snaps.   In the most recent game though Ford was a difference maker.......in the regard that two of the Bills TD plays were actually forced into being out-of-pocket plays by whiffed blocks by Ford.?   He is quite good in the run game but fortunately Allen is very mobile/elusive and Ford is on his front side where he can keep an eye on Cody for the numerous plays per game that he gets destroyed in pass pro.    IMO he's been below replacement level all season.

 

Draft pick "x" Metcalf has been the real deal from day one.   He was a perfect match with Allen and he's been making big plays every step of the way.   Maybe over the long haul Ford will have the better NFL career.   I said that at the time.   But this year is a "window" year.   It always was and I EXPECTED Ford to struggle and take a few seasons to become a high quality G or RT and then when he very soon after hits FA it's going to be hard to justify paying those positions top dollar.    That was the beauty of what they did in FA.......pay veterans to stock the line because most young OL are major liabilities.  

 

And I am a believer in using early draft picks on "high dollar" positions.......QB/pass rush/LT/#1CB/#1WR.   You can always buy high quality guards and RT's in FA.   Not so much the high dollar positions.   When the high dollar positions hit UFA they are usually 30 somethings or injury suspects.  

 

Well alright then, lol. Easy there champ - let's clear up a few things here before we further digress from a thread topic related to Oliver:

 

1.  Going into this season, most of us were expecting 7-9/8-8 at best, I came in at 6-10 with a hopeful 7-9, and I'm thrilled to have been proven wrong this year. That's just simply true, most of us were not expecting what we've seen unfold thus far this season. Also, why are you talking about 2017? I'd love to know when I specifically was ever in a "panic" about a tank, or even used the words "Jauron Ball" which is the laziest coaching analysis I've heard. I'll happily stand corrected whenever you want to let me know, but no need to get defensive...Jauron. If you meant that this team looked like a 10 win team coming into camp this year, then good for you? I don't know why predictions matter more than reality, but again, here we are. For whatever it may be worth, I've been critical of various moves made, but have also remained consistently hopeful for what McD and Beane have done since the switch was made.

 

2. My point with playing this draft pick game is you could literally cherry pick any draft pick that we "missed" on, a la the exhaustive Mahomes conversations that seem to come up annually. It's a tired and pointless exercise that literally carries no clout whatsoever - having to write this for the nth time is absurd, but there's no guarantee Metcalf has the same success on any other team this year. He may have, he may not have - we literally will never know, and it's an impossible claim to make. I'm so happy for you that you predicted Metcalf's success this year - I'm equally thrilled that he's proving people wrong with his success in Seattle, but what does that have to do with Ford? It's clear to everyone he's struggled in his rookie year but why is that any reason to play the "we should've taken x guy over y guy" game? He's demonstrated growth the past two weeks and the team has shown we can still compete with critical pieces missing from our starting roster.

 

Bottom line is this, we're 9-3 with Ford and not Metcalf. There's no guarantee we're 9-3 with Metcalf instead of Ford, and there's also no guarantee Metcalf breaks out on the Bills the way he has with the Seahawks. There's also no guarantee it continues whatsoever, enter: Goff. There were definitely people here predicting success, and I'm glad you (possibly) were one of them - there's no denying the the overall feeling of this board and external sources thought differently. Frankly, it really doesn't matter in the least.

 

If we're pleasantly talking draft strategies, I've always been partial to building the trenches before drafting any skill positions for the exact reasons you mention. It takes a couple years to develop new OL talent, and in a year where we literally changed our entire OL save for Dawkins, taking Ford with our 2nd was in response to having no discernible OL for our franchise QB in his rookie season. With an OL foundation moving forward, and both Smoke and Beasley making an impact, in addition to an unprecedented WR draft coming up this year, there's very little room to criticize taking Ford given those variables and perspective and a tremendous amount of room to look forward to adding a few impact skill players this next offseason. Doing so would, theoretically, be the final step in the process and us seeing this team taking the next step in becoming a perennial playoff team.

Edited December 1, 2019 by ctk232

[BADOLBILZ]

20 hours ago, KellyToTasker said:

They valued protecting their young QB instead of drafting a guy that fell in the draft. That story has been told before (shiny new WR, bad OL) and it rarely ends well. Nesekhe went down, we were all concerned with an expected turnstile to open, and Ford responded with good play. The offense has played much better the last few games. 

 

 

Oh if I trusted Ford to be good in pass pro as a rookie I'd have been more forgiving...........but I didn't and he hasn't been.   You hear all the time that NFL OL coaches think it's not until after year 3 that young OL stop being liabilities to their offense.   If that's Ford then you get 3 years of wtf's and one year of + performance before he hits FA.   That's why it's smart to buy interior OL and RT's in FA that other people have already put in the time to develop.  They are generally inexpensive compared to guys who play on "islands" and their contracts run shorter.  For some reason people were all good with paying Morse and Spain and Feliciano and Long and Nsekhe in FA as a strategy to rebuild the OL...... but......ya' know.......a RT without LT versatility?   You GOTTA' use early draft capital on one of those.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

I’d like to see someone go big nickel and make them keep handing it to Ingram up the middle. As long as the DEs don't keep crashing the middle on the option/handoff (like the Rams did) Lamar would be forced to hand it off most of the time. Keep Lamar from running it and make Ingram be the primary ballcarrier and Lamar use his arm vs a nickel. Of all the options I think thats the least likely to result in 30+ points.

 

Teams have already been trying not to collapse the pocket and leave running lanes........but when you are getting gashed up the middle the DE becomes compelled to try to stop the ball. 

 

And ultimately containment doesn't really work because he can still get to the edge against most teams(which is why I'd like to see the Bills be able to have Milano and Edmunds both patrolling outside).

 

We kinda' know Roman and what he's trying to do.

 

I remember in Tyrod year 1 under Roman/Lynn after the Tennessee game teams really froze up and tried to contain Tyrod in the pocket and with no rush he just patiently waited for guys to get open and hit the passes.    He ended up averaging 8.0 yards per attempt and it looked like the Bills might have found their QB.

 

In year 2 defenses flipped the script...........they decided they were going to go against conventional wisdom and attack Taylor and risk leaving running lanes.   The Bills offense still excelled over the course of games but the attacking style really worked late in games or any other time teams didn't have to worry about the run.

 

Jackson is much better than Tyrod but I think the approach with him is similar.   You want to figure out how to make them stop running the ball......eliminate the effectiveness of the ball fake in RPO.......... and then force him to throw deep and outside the numbers.    

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 11/29/2019 at 8:10 PM, GunnerBill said:

He already has more sacks as a rookie than Kawann Short, Geno Atkins, Grady Jarrett, Gerald McCoy and is a half sack behind the rookie total of Fletcher Cox. They are the next group of elite guys at the position behind Donald. 

 

For a rookie 3tech he is ahead of where a lot of the best in the business were at this stage. 

 

I owe you an apology. Good scouting on your part. I'll raise a pint in your honor as I watch the burnt siennas lose today

[TigerJ]

If he ends up being the kind of player Aaron Donald is, I'm not too concerned with how many sacks he gets as a rookie.  It's nice to see him having an impact though.

[KellyToTasker]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh if I trusted Ford to be good in pass pro as a rookie I'd have been more forgiving...........but I didn't and he hasn't been.   You hear all the time that NFL OL coaches think it's not until after year 3 that young OL stop being liabilities to their offense.   If that's Ford then you get 3 years of wtf's and one year of + performance before he hits FA.   That's why it's smart to buy interior OL and RT's in FA that other people have already put in the time to develop.  They are generally inexpensive compared to guys who play on "islands" and their contracts run shorter.  For some reason people were all good with paying Morse and Spain and Feliciano and Long and Nsekhe in FA as a strategy to rebuild the OL...... but......ya' know.......a RT without LT versatility?   You GOTTA' use early draft capital on one of those.

 

He’s progressing and playing better. He certainly hasn’t been a liability the last two games. He played against two big names (back to back) and received praise from the first (Von Miller) and the other from our Hall of Fame Running Back. Signing the OL FAs they did afforded competition and time.

There are 1st round drafted OL that struggle and they didn’t draft Ford to be a LT......Ever. The offense killed it, Allen has had time to stand flat footed, and the running game has been effective (which is what Ford is good at). I’d say he’s developing and getting better, what you want a rookie to do. Are you concerned as much today as you were when Nsekhe went down? I’m not, Ford kept the machine going. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, KellyToTasker said:

He’s progressing and playing better. He certainly hasn’t been a liability the last two games. He played against two big names (back to back) and received praise from the first (Von Miller) and the other from our Hall of Fame Running Back. Signing the OL FAs they did afforded competition and time.

There are 1st round drafted OL that struggle and they didn’t draft Ford to be a LT......Ever. The offense killed it, Allen has had time to stand flat footed, and the running game has been effective (which is what Ford is good at). I’d say he’s developing and getting better, what you want a rookie to do. Are you concerned as much today as you were when Nsekhe went down? I’m not, Ford kept the machine going. 

 

I wasn't concerned when Nsekhe went down.

 

Obviously you would hope your RT doesn't suck in pass pro like Ford but your RT can suck in pass pro if your QB can move and make plays.

 

Like I said,  in the Cowboys game Ford had two blown assignments that Allen turned into a reason to get out of the pocket and make a play.    The first was the TD pass to Beasley and the second Allen ran in himself.  

 

Terrible pass pro from the RT position didn't prevent the 2016 Bills from having the 7th highest scoring offense and fewest turnovers by a team in the SB era thru 16 weeks. 

[KellyToTasker]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I wasn't concerned when Nsekhe went down.

 

Obviously you would hope your RT doesn't suck in pass pro like Ford but your RT can suck in pass pro if your QB can move and make plays.

 

Like I said,  in the Cowboys game Ford had two blown assignments that Allen turned into a reason to get out of the pocket and make a play.    The first was the TD pass to Beasley and the second Allen ran in himself.  

 

Terrible pass pro from the RT position didn't prevent the 2016 Bills from having the 7th highest scoring offense and fewest turnovers by a team in the SB era thru 16 weeks. 

Like I said before, Von Miller and Thurman had good things to say about Ford. No offense, but they’re a little more qualified. Players, especially rookies, develop. You can cherry pick bad plays with the best of players. Crazy that his two “blown” assignments led to a couple of TDs  ??‍♂️

Edited December 1, 2019 by KellyToTasker

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I owe you an apology. Good scouting on your part. I'll raise a pint in your honor as I watch the burnt siennas lose today

 

Haha. That is fine. I think Josh makes us about even Joe. 

[ArtVandalay]

With the way Jordan Phillips has played may not be able to get to the QB before him enough to get 5.

 

Maybe Phillips starts drawing attention? 

 

Jackson and Brady will be very hard to sack. Two of the least sacked QBs in the league, they are tied for 24th is QB sacks at only 21 each. 

 

It's extremely unlikely. I'd be impressed with 7.

[BuffaloSol]

On 11/29/2019 at 10:23 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If Metcalf were here Thurman would be loving him even more.

 

Tasker said today that the group text between the former Bills was basically drunken incoherence last night so take what TT said with a grain.?

I guess you are saying Von Miller must have been drunk post game as well?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

I guess you are saying Von Miller must have been drunk post game as well?

 

 

The Bills ran the ball 47 times versus Denver.  Miller had very little chance to rush the passer.  

 

Ford is a good run blocker.  As was Nsekhe.   As was Jordan Mills(Bills lead NFL in rushing twice with Mills at RT).   Hopefully Ford raises his game in pass pro.