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Virgil

Some Allen/Offense Stats

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9 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I think we'd be 7-2 with Tyrod and the facts would back that up. We would have likely beat NE without the TO's.

 

That doesn't matter because anyone with a working brain realizes Tyrod wasn't good enough. But is Allen? I honestly don't think so, but the jury is out more so than it was Taylor as a veteran.

 

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

You must be so happy that you can finally say this! Bully for you.

 

Just don’t ask him how Right Josh’s completion percentage is. 

 

Half this board is still salty that, not only did we pick Wrong Josh, but he’s already much better than Right Josh. The anti-Allen hatred will live well past his retirement and HOF enshrinement. ;)

Edited by whatdrought

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1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

 

 

 

Just don’t ask him how Right Josh’s completion percentage is. 

Who is everyone? I can agree people did not expect instant Brees/Rodgers/Brady. But he still makes some horrible decisions that I would be mad my college QB makes. He misses horribly on some passes that an NFL QB just has to make. Those are the concerns. I am fine with the he needs time angle, but there are basic high school/college level concerns. 

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2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

Agree the discussion is a futile exercise of hypotheticals. I'd argue that peak veteran Tyrod was not his last 20 starts, but his first 20 (his stats pretty consistently declined, along with our offensive talent). Unfortunately, I think where the discussion stems from is that the offense is not producing. And Tyrod was the QB of our most sustained prolific offense since Kelly. I think we actually set a record for consecutive home games with 20+ points!

 

I want nothing to do with the silliness, but the way to kill it is to put up points and make everyone forget! Here's hoping the fearless unleashing is a step towards making that happen.

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6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Who is everyone? I can agree people did not expect instant Brees/Rodgers/Brady. But he still makes some horrible decisions that I would be mad my college QB makes. He misses horribly on some passes that an NFL QB just has to make. Those are the concerns. I am fine with the he needs time angle, but there are basic high school/college level concerns. 

 

Everyone who paid attention to his pre-draft assessments that saw him as a project. Mike Mayock, Lance Zierline, Matt Miller, Daniel Jeremiah... ya know, professionals. The same professionals (DJ at least) who say a player needs 48 games before you know what they are. Allen has 20 and he’s shown immense growth. 

 

 

Also, what decisions are you referring to? He’s been pretty clean the past 5 or so games. 

Edited by whatdrought

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1 hour ago, Questionable said:

 

Not sure where you are getting those stats from.  The Browns rank in the middle of the league in passing  yards allowed.  14th before this weeks game.

 

 

They haven't had Ward and Greedy most of the season.  

 

This point will not be discussed in low info Buffalo sports media however.  

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8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lazy takes by Sullivan.

For Ty Dunne, want to know stats on 30+ air yard passes and 20+ air yard passes for other QBs before I get all bothered.

 

 

zero point zero

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1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Everyone who paid attention to his pre-draft assessments that saw him as a project. Mike Mayock, Lance Zierline, Matt Miller, Daniel Jeremiah... ya know, professionals. The same professionals (DJ at least) who say a player needs 48 games before you know what they are. Allen has 20 and he’s shown immense growth. 

 

 

Also, what decisions are you referring to? He’s been pretty clean the past 5 or so games. 

 

 

Yea but Howard "it has to be Rosen" Simon told me this morning he's going to know for sure at the end of this season whether Josh is "the answer."

 

The only way he's not coming back next season is if he completely implodes and even then he's going to be here.  Will a vet come in and Josh have to compete in this scenario (that I don't see happening) sure its possible.  

 

Critics can't handle they may have been wrong about him.  Would rather he fail so they can say "we told you so" and are refusing to be objective.  

 

Of course he isn't playing great.  Does he show he doesn't belong on the field?  Absolutely friggin not.  There is plenty here to be encouraged about it and they could, if their egos let them, harp on those things (need a #1, get more from the running game, get a more urgent aggressive mind set on O, throw more slants to our big boddi....oh never mind) rather than immediately want to kick him to the curb. 

 

 

Howard had the audacity to say this morning that he was very happy with Josh's development thru mid October.  That's a crock.  He has NEVER led that morning show in the first 7 weeks with anything good to say about the QB.  He posted a twitter poll 3 weeks or so ago asking what are you more concerned with going forward the D or the O.  We were 5-1 at the time.  And since BOTH have either flatlined (the O) or completely fell off (D).  

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1 hour ago, Questionable said:

 

Not sure where you are getting those stats from.  The Browns rank in the middle of the league in passing  yards allowed.  14th before this weeks game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2019.htm

 

Lg Rank Defense 21 17     26 20 12   7 7 22 26 15   24 27 15 28           23 27 18

 

 

Also, ESPN has them at 6th in passing yards allowed,

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netPassingYards/dir/asc

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9 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I mean.... he's completed ZERO of them.... do you really need any other qb's numbers for enough context to see that's pretty bad? I don't need to see other qb's stats there to be bothered by the fact that it seems allen cant hit the broad side of a barn from 30+..... and FTR i'm cool with allen.

 

 

How dare you grasp Ralphs' sacred crank in that avatar and then send negative vibes thru your keyboard with that same hand about this franchise!    What kind of Bills fan art thou?! 

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3 hours ago, ngbills said:

Confusion...

Tyrod did play with KB as his best WR and a worse OL (Mills, Ducasse and rookie Dawkins).

And just like a seasoned politician you conveniently (forgot?) about Eric Wood and Incognito 

Edited by Putin

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2 hours ago, Z-Mann said:

 

GREAT points.  Coaching does not and should not escape criticism.  Ultimately I feel like a great QB can overcome questionable coaching to at least be "average" (or an outlier like Aaron Rodgers, be excellent), but I am not sure if we have the leadership in place to get the best out of Allen.  I also feel like they aren't THAT bad which is contributing to him being one of the worst in the league.

Thanks. 

 

Look at last season to see that while Josh Allen's completion percentage was an abysmal 52.8% and he was more of a gunslinger in taking chances with a 10 passing TDs, 12 Interceptions. Meanwhile, Allen was hitting a lot of deep passes. In fact, the Buffalo Bills led the league in deep passes. Allen's win/loss record was 5-6.

 

This season the deep passes are almost nonexistent while Allen is hitting more shorter passes. QB record of 6-3 and has thrown for 1919 yards 10 TDs, 7 INTs with a better completion percentage and QBR. 

 

Its my take that while Allen is in a more controlled QB in a sort of game manager type role this season. But this scheme is not him and not allowing him to be his best self and I think its holding him back.

 

What I'm saying here is this OC is calling plays like he has that experienced QB behind center instead of a young inexperienced QB who needs an offense / QB guru that will allow him to develop into an elite QB. Daboll "might" be a good enough OC if he had an elite franchise QB. However, no QB is going to do well being forced to carry the team without a run game support like we saw against the Redskins. Teams need a balanced attack and especially teams with young, inexperienced QBs. 

 

Allen's win/loss record is 6-3 with many games he needed to make a comeback drive to win the game. I don't see him as being one of the worst in the league because he is 22nd in passing yards. 

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9 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

I'm guessing this is your analysis because that is not what I her when listening to people who understand the game way more than me.  Unless I'm missing information about your credentials than just a fan

That is the credentials of those people you listen to just FYI.

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11 hours ago, Virgil said:

Do with these what you will

 

 

 

 

 

Apples to Oranges comparison...Tyrod was a 5year veteran when he joined the Bills....JA is a rookie who was thrown to the wolves.

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7 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Apples to Oranges comparison...Tyrod was a 5year veteran when he joined the Bills....JA is a rookie who was thrown to the wolves.

....And did not play for a Power 5 team with a high powered passing attack, like Oklahoma or Texas Tech. He lacks experience, is raw but improving, and is learning at the NFL what some of these guys experienced in college. Let's give the player some patience, he has a lot of positive characteristics.

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Part of this is just a coaching problem, plain and simple.

 

McDermott coaches conservative. I would love for his comments today to his team about "play(ing) fearless" to be an indicator of some serious systemic changes on offense, but I'm fearFUL it won't be.

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On 11/13/2019 at 10:32 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lazy takes by Sullivan.

For Ty Dunne, want to know stats on 30+ air yard passes and 20+ air yard passes for other QBs before I get all bothered.

 

...huh?...I'm terribly confused....always thought the OBD "White Smoke" meant Jerry was the "Pope of Bills Football".....SMH....

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On 11/13/2019 at 10:22 AM, BillsRdue said:

 

He designed an offense to play to his QB's strengths and now is doing it in Baltimore. 

 

 

No he didn't.   He ran his run first offense like he always has.  They just got a QB who could run too.   You are giving him credit where it isn't due.   Roman is the best run game coach  in the NFL.    But he didn't modify his offense in a way that best suited anybody.   He would run the same damn offense with Tom Brady as QB.   That, unfortunately, is his biggest drawback as a coach.

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Taylor was at his peak. He was 25 or 26.  Sat behind a Superbowl MVP for 5 years.  Allen isnt 23 yet and is similar to the best Qb Buffalo had since Kelly mid way through year 2?  No Allen isnt Kelly.  If Taylor led 4th quarter comebacks or was tops in the league in Redzone TD efficiency Taylors still the Qb in Buffalo.  I get it losing to Cleveland hurt.  There is no way you watched the game Sunday and blame Allen for the loss.  No way.  The offense went conservative, Hauscka missed 2 FGs. 

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6 hours ago, PolishDave said:

He would run the same damn offense with Tom Brady as QB.   That, unfortunately, is his biggest drawback as a coach.

This part I can't buy. I agree he is a great run game coach, but he uses running QB's as part of it, so it is part of his design. He's tearing it up in Baltimore and I think he'd do the same in Buffalo with our current group, much better than DaBoll.

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A really nice, unbiased (though a bit more positive) review of Josh Allen vs Browns .. some good .. some bad. The missed deep ball to Isaiah in particular  thought was interesting as it looked like an overthrow, but Isaiah was just lost.

 

Edited by CorkScrewHill
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On 11/13/2019 at 4:45 PM, whatdrought said:

 

It means that on third and long we actually have a chance of picking up the first down with Allen. It happens regularly. The 3rd and 18 against Washington is example of that. Tyrod run offenses never accomplished that. 3rd and over 7 was always a punt coming. 

 

I dont that is a fact. Statistics don’t show the whole story. There have been games won by josh Allen this year and last that TT would not have won. He was better at not turning the ball over, but in a lot of situations he was gunshy about throwing the football. He rarely took chances and that incredibly limited his capacity. 

yep been a long time since I can remember when the bills where in a first in long to a third in long that I think the Bills have a chance at picking up the first.  So many QBS 3rd and 8...three yard pass more frustrating than throwing it 10 yards and missing

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2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

A really nice, unbiased (though a bit more positive) review of Josh Allen vs Browns .. some good .. some bad. The missed deep ball to Isaiah in particular  thought was interesting as it looked like an overthrow, but Isaiah was just lost.

 

more people need to watch these guys

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