Some Allen/Offense Stats

[Nextmanup]

2 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

 

OR - 

 

Josh Allen has spent the entire off-season AND pre-season working solely on the shorter, intermediate throws and has not developed any timing on deep routes with his new receivers...

Do you have any idea when we are going to work on developing that timing?

 

He's been a standout athlete his whole life, finished a college career, and played 21 games in the NFL.  Is it still too early to expect him to be able to hit a wide open receiver down field?

 

When might he work on that?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

Where is Tyrod now? Which team is he starting for? I mean, if he was good and had such great potential why isn’t he starting somewhere?

[ILBillsfan]

1 hour ago, cd1 said:

 

 

OR - 

 

Josh Allen has spent the entire off-season AND pre-season working solely on the shorter, intermediate throws and has not developed any timing on deep routes with his new receivers...

Or watch the all 22’s and see it’s in the wr on some of these deep balls 

 

I know it’s easier to just type 

[cd1]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you have any idea when we are going to work on developing that timing?

 

He's been a standout athlete his whole life, finished a college career, and played 21 games in the NFL.  Is it still too early to expect him to be able to hit a wide open receiver down field?

 

When might he work on that?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Hitting a "wide open" STATIONARY target is not that difficult. But timing is required to hit a running receiver.

 

Remember, other than McKenzie, this is the first year playing with his other receivers.

 

WHEN - not my call - PERHAPS this is a question someone should ask his coaches.

[Playoffs?]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:39 AM, Z-Mann said:

I do not understand all the defending of Allen that I am seeing.  A lot of what is being said is not wrong - still a young guy, not even a full second season, feel like he's gotten better at the short passes...there are some reasons to remain hopeful.

 

Here is where my disappointment comes in - if I were to ask a football fan if they would be happy if their second year QB was 31st in DVOA (out of 33 QB's that have thrown at least 150 passes) and also 31st in QBR, 9 games into the season...like, we would all be disappointed in that, right?  Is it wrong to have expected something more at this point? 

 

As Bills fans, we have something that no other fan has for Allen - faith.  Faith that he will be "the guy" and is capable of carrying the offense on his back when needed.  But by almost any statistical measure that's important for a QB, even though we are halfway through his second season, he is a BAD quarterback.  Then the Tyrod comparisons start up...and yes, Tyrod had his ceiling with us and is now relegated to backup duty...but he wasn't good enough and almost all Bills fans wanted to move off him.  JA puts up similar numbers as Tyrod did, and the excuses start coming out, mostly having to do with his age and tenure in the NFL compared to TT.  Both true points.  It does not diminish the fact that JA is still a BAD QB at this point in time.  Yes, more of an opportunity to get better than TT due to tenure and age, but right now Allen is not a good quarterback.

 

He really needs to take a significant jump from his second to third year.  I *hope* he does, but I'm not seeing it trending that way based on the data...

Agree with this post. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Well we don’t particularly use a lot of screens or short run after catch routes to

pad Joshs stats all I can say is look at Dallas..Scott Lenahan had Dak looking like Tyrod by the end of last year...hire Kellen Moore and despite their lackluster record have one of the

top offenses in the league that and some serious skill talent helps too..we don’t have a skill player drafted before the 3 rd round 

[Jerome007]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:01 AM, GreggTX said:

My greatest fear for Allen is that he'll be just good enough to keep Beane from drafting someone to replace him for several years like Tannehill in Miami. 

I root big time for Allen, and certainly wish him to become THE Bills QB for the next 15-20 years as he becomes a great one. For me as well, my fear is NOT that he's a bust. He's not already! Some of his haters are ridiculous. But it is that he becomes a Tannehill, Flacco, Strafford, etc. level. Pretty good but not that next level you need. Only time will tell but damn people are impatient!

 

His deep ball is concerning but he cannot be THAT inaccurate. There's some mental issues here. A couple of drops, don't forget, and some simple chemistry/timing issues, but besides he has overthrown everybody. Part of it must be the coaches preferring that to an INT... and they are right. Part of it is that he's loss confidence. Again, even if he is inaccurate, he can NOT be that bad, come on. It's likely a weird temporary glitch he has so far this  year. Add a few completed long passes and his stats would look awesome, a few extra TDs and yes, the infamous 300 yard game would be his already.

 

So chill out everybody ha ha. If you are so set on it, root against him this offseason if he stinks the rest of the year, but meanwhile, he IS the Bills QB. Support the man. WTH kind of fans like to pile on their own team like that!!!

Edited November 17, 2019 by Jerome007

[Billsflyer12]

On 11/13/2019 at 7:32 PM, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

....And did not play for a Power 5 team with a high powered passing attack, like Oklahoma or Texas Tech. He lacks experience, is raw but improving, and is learning at the NFL what some of these guys experienced in college. Let's give the player some patience, he has a lot of positive characteristics.

You just a few posts ago said there was a reason Kyle Allen was not drafted, do you think there then is a reason Josh had no D1 out of HS, 2 D1 offers out of JC, and was 3rd team all MWC senior season at Wyoming?

 

College

Allen #1 - 25 GP, 4283 Yds, 61.7%, 7.4 Y/Att, 37 TD, 18 INT, Rating 138.6

Allen #2 - 27 GP, 5066 Yds, 56.2%, 7.8 Y/Att, 44 TD, 21 INT, Rating 137.7

 

One Allen UDFA, other gave up 2 2nd rd picks to trade to #7 to draft.  I’m not saying I would trade Allens, but I sure as hell wouldn't have drafted one of them #7 overall.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Billsflyer12

[Locomark]

16 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you have any idea when we are going to work on developing that timing?

 

He's been a standout athlete his whole life, finished a college career, and played 21 games in the NFL.  Is it still too early to expect him to be able to hit a wide open receiver down field?

 

When might he work on that?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Next time you are at an NFL game watch how many times there are wide open guys. It happens to every QB at every game. I have seen it from Kelly, Brady, Rodgers, Elway, etc. This isn’t a video game. The view of the QB standing on the field behind ten 6 foot 4 guys is not the same overview field view you get on a broadcast. Any time I sit in the upper deck I see wide open players. It’s angles and perspective ! 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Locomark

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Next time you are at an NFL game watch how many times there are wide open guys. It happens to every QB at every game. I have seen it from Kelly, Brady, Rodgers, Elway, etc. This isn’t a video game. The view of the QB standing on the field behind ten 6 foot 4 guys is not the same overview field view you get on a broadcast. Any time I sit in the upper deck I see wide open players. It’s angles and perspective ! 

 

You also have to take into account throwing lanes.  A receiver can be open all day but if there is no throwing lane to him then he isn't going to get him the ball.  You cant really see that from a top down view.  Allen has a lot to improve on but he gets too much of the blame for everything IMO. 

The dude could throw a perfect pass in a tight window, have it deflect off the receivers hands, turn into an INT, and he would be criticized saying he shouldn't have made the throw.  The same exact throw could happen for Mahomes, but the receiver catch the ball instead and people would be saying how awesome he is.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Scott7975

[Locomark]

25 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You also have to take into account throwing lanes.  A receiver can be open all day but if there is no throwing lane to him then he isn't going to get him the ball.  You cant really see that from a top down view.  Allen has a lot to improve on but he gets too much of the blame for everything IMO. 

The dude could throw a perfect pass in a tight window, have it deflect off the receivers hands, turn into an INT, and he would be criticized saying he shouldn't have made the throw.  The same exact throw could happen for Mahomes, but the receiver catch the ball instead and people would be saying how awesome he is.

Agree fully. I have watched the last two Mahomes games and he had many poor throws and missed opportunities. To me it’s what you do in the clutch and how many big plays you make that make up for the errors you make. Josh needs to make more plays but if we surround him with the type of playmakers the likes of what Mahomes has had, well that changes a lot. Mahomes is throwing to an all world WR and and an all world TE and their 2nd and 3rd best WR could be our best WR.  

Allen gets too much of the blame for the offensive woes. If McD had some actual cahoonas he would mandate Daboll gets at least 20 touches to Singletary today. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Locomark

[DuckyBoys]

11 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Agree fully. I have watched the last two Mahomes games and he had many poor throws and missed opportunities. To me it’s what you do in the clutch and how many big plays you make that make up for the errors you make. Josh needs to make more plays but if we surround him with the type of playmakers the likes of what Mahomes has had, well that changes a lot. Mahomes is throwing to an all world WR and and an all world TE and their 2nd and 3rd best WR could be our best WR.  

Allen gets too much of the blame for the offensive woes. If McD had some actual cahoonas he would mandate Daboll gets at least 20 touches to Singletary today. 

Everything gets swept under the rug when you have success  Bills offense has been stagnant for stretches so Allen is the #1 scapegoat.  Mahomes is driving a Ferrari and Allen is driving a Camry and people want the same result.  Get the guy some help Beane  Stop putting all the assets into MCDermotts defense

[Locomark]

2 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Everything gets swept under the rug when you have success  Bills offense has been stagnant for stretches so Allen is the #1 scapegoat.  Mahomes is driving a Ferrari and Allen is driving a Camry and people want the same result.  Get the guy some help Beane  Stop putting all the assets into MCDermotts defense

Jeremy white said something great this AM on GR. He said we often applaud the cap situation but the reality is we have a great cap situation because we don’t have many great players. That is our challenge on offense. Other than Mitch, we don’t have anyone on offense who is likely a top 5 guy in the league at their position yet the teams who win championships all do. Most of those teams have 3 or more and definitely have 2 at the skill positions 

[Billl]

35 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Agree fully. I have watched the last two Mahomes games and he had many poor throws and missed opportunities. To me it’s what you do in the clutch and how many big plays you make that make up for the errors you make. Josh needs to make more plays but if we surround him with the type of playmakers the likes of what Mahomes has had, well that changes a lot. Mahomes is throwing to an all world WR and and an all world TE and their 2nd and 3rd best WR could be our best WR.  

Allen gets too much of the blame for the offensive woes. If McD had some actual cahoonas he would mandate Daboll gets at least 20 touches to Singletary today. 

In Mahomes's last two games, he went 10/11 (91%) for 76 yards and a TD before getting injured and then went 36/50 (72%) for 446 yards and 3 TDs.  He didn't throw a pick in either game.  Where are the "many poor throws" he's making at? 

 

When I watch him play, I see a guy who is in total control before the snap, calls out the defense, sets the protection, and throws with anticipation right on target to a receiver who usually is at the moment of peak separation.  The defense has to cover the entire field because the moment they don't, he makes them pay.  Interestingly enough, his over the top deep ball is the one he struggles with, but he still hits it often enough that defenses have to gameplan for it.  Cleveland stacked the box against the Bills, and Josh couldn't make them pay.  You will NEVER see a team play the Chiefs with a gameplan of putting 8 men in the box and making Mahomes beat them.  He'd throw left handed no look passes behind his back just to not get bored.

[Locomark]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

In Mahomes's last two games, he went 10/11 (91%) for 76 yards and a TD before getting injured and then went 36/50 (72%) for 446 yards and 3 TDs.  He didn't throw a pick in either game.  Where are the "many poor throws" he's making at? 

 

When I watch him play, I see a guy who is in total control before the snap, calls out the defense, sets the protection, and throws with anticipation right on target to a receiver who usually is at the moment of peak separation.  The defense has to cover the entire field because the moment they don't, he makes them pay.  Interestingly enough, his over the top deep ball is the one he struggles with, but he still hits it often enough that defenses have to gameplan for it.  Cleveland stacked the box against the Bills, and Josh couldn't make them pay.  You will NEVER see a team play the Chiefs with a gameplan of putting 8 men in the box and making Mahomes beat them.  He'd throw left handed no look passes behind his back just to not get bored.

The Indy game he put 3 terrible deep balls up, 2 into triple coverage and 2 of them were completed. We don’t have the athletes for that. We also don’t have Andy Reid’s play calling!! I am not saying Mahomes isn’t better than Josh. I am saying he has a huge talent and coaching advantage. The Bills are trying to spread the field and do the same thing but we don’t have 3 guys who can win on the outside like KC does. So Mahomes rarely has to get to read 2 or 3. Watch him closely and you won’t see him have to go through progressions. That’s huge. 

[DuckyBoys]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

In Mahomes's last two games, he went 10/11 (91%) for 76 yards and a TD before getting injured and then went 36/50 (72%) for 446 yards and 3 TDs.  He didn't throw a pick in either game.  Where are the "many poor throws" he's making at? 

 

When I watch him play, I see a guy who is in total control before the snap, calls out the defense, sets the protection, and throws with anticipation right on target to a receiver who usually is at the moment of peak separation.  The defense has to cover the entire field because the moment they don't, he makes them pay.  Interestingly enough, his over the top deep ball is the one he struggles with, but he still hits it often enough that defenses have to gameplan for it.  Cleveland stacked the box against the Bills, and Josh couldn't make them pay.  You will NEVER see a team play the Chiefs with a gameplan of putting 8 men in the box and making Mahomes beat them.  He'd throw left handed no look passes behind his back just to not get bored.

Mahomes misses plenty of passes but nobody cares because of all the big plays  Bit tougher to get big plays from the talent the Bills have  The most talented skill player the Bills have had since Eric Moulds is their third or fourth option  Not sure why this is so tough for people to see  There will always be guys running wide open because defenses have to bracket or panic covering Hill and Watkins and their 4th and 5th wrs have more speed and ability than anybody on this team besides brown

48 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Jeremy white said something great this AM on GR. He said we often applaud the cap situation but the reality is we have a great cap situation because we don’t have many great players. That is our challenge on offense. Other than Mitch, we don’t have anyone on offense who is likely a top 5 guy in the league at their position yet the teams who win championships all do. Most of those teams have 3 or more and definitely have 2 at the skill positions 

Yeah were basically still running a undermanned team just not as bad as 2018.  I worry the cap space will disappear with more process guys vs bringing in some elite talent.  Beane should shoot for the moon in free agency and spend on a top wr, pass rusher

[LABILLBACKER]

I guess this all boils down to will he ever improve his accuracy beyond 20 yards? If he doesn't he may not even be as productive as Tyrod was (which isn't saying much). We'll know alot more by the end of next year. I'm giving him 3 full years to improve.  Just like I gave EJ.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

Mahomes misses plenty of passes but nobody cares because of all the big plays  Bit tougher to get big plays from the talent the Bills have  The most talented skill player the Bills have had since Eric Moulds is their third or fourth option  Not sure why this is so tough for people to see  There will always be guys running wide open because defenses have to bracket or panic covering Hill and Watkins and their 4th and 5th wrs have more speed and ability than anybody on this team besides brown

Yeah were basically still running a undermanned team just not as bad as 2018.  I worry the cap space will disappear with more process guys vs bringing in some elite talent.  Beane should shoot for the moon in free agency and spend on a top wr, pass rusher

Tyreek and Mahomes have only played two games together this season.  Hill was hurt early week 1 and came back week 6.  Mahomes was hurt early week 7 and just returned last week.  Yes, Kansas City has superior skill position players to Buffalo, but to pretend like that's one of the primary reasons one is the best player in the league and the other is at the bottom of the league in QB rating is to completely ignore reality.  With roughly the same number of starts, one is about to sign the biggest contact in NFL history while the other is hoping to improve enough to keep his job.

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Tyreek and Mahomes have only played two games together this season.  Hill was hurt early week 1 and came back week 6.  Mahomes was hurt early week 7 and just returned last week.  Yes, Kansas City has superior skill position players to Buffalo, but to pretend like that's one of the primary reasons one is the best player in the league and the other is at the bottom of the league in QB rating is to completely ignore reality.  With roughly the same number of starts, one is about to sign the biggest contact in NFL history while the other is hoping to improve enough to keep his job.

yeah take away Hill and Mahomes still has superior players at each skill position  Not saying Allen is in mahomes class but he sure could use better playmakers

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]