ICE Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 All I can think about is getting on that flight Saturday morning! good job TD on getting Schobel signed. He will be good for 10 sacks a year for the next 3-4 years. Get some help on the other side and solidify the OL and we are in damn good shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Umm Schobel is overrated. Plain and simple. He's an average player at best. His sacks are due more to solid coverage than anything else. He's a good player, no doubt. A $28 million player? No way. For my money, I'd rather extend Pat Williams who while older, still wreaks havock in the middle of that defensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That's an insane amount of money for an average DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That's an insane amount of money for an average DE. 22283[/snapback] I dont care......he's the best on our roster and going into next season without a #1 pick and the possiblity of Ryan Dummey at RDE ,or LDE for that matter, as the starter scared the hell out of me!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That's an insane amount of money for an average DE. 22283[/snapback] I'm afraid you are correct... he better step it up this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Aaron schobel is as overrated as Kearse, Wistrom, or Peppers. I like the move TD made. An important piece of the puzzle will be around. i was getting upset at the fact all of our good talent always left the team. It's the first time in a while we were able to keep any talent around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarkinBanks Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I know there are more to stats than just sacks, but Schobel's deal looks like money well spent to me: Jevon Kearse: $66 million, six-year deal with the Philadelphia Eagles that includes a $16 million signing bonus. 10 sacks in 2003. Grant Wistrom: $33-million deal, six year deal with the Seattle Seahawks that includes a $14M signing bonus. 8 sacks in 2003. Adewale Ogunleye: $33 million, six year deal with the Chicago Bears. The deal included a $15 million signing bonus. 15 sacks in 2003. Aaron Schobel: $28 million, six year deal. Schobel received a $7 million signing bonus and will also earn a $2 million roster bonus next spring. 12 sacks in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Umm Schobel is overrated. Plain and simple. He's an average player at best. His sacks are due more to solid coverage than anything else. He's a good player, no doubt. A $28 million player? No way. For my money, I'd rather extend Pat Williams who while older, still wreaks havock in the middle of that defensive line. 22280[/snapback] And what exactly do you think the going rate for a slightly above average DE will be in 2008-2009 ? I think 5 mil per year looks like a pretty resonable deal. I'd bet you he'd have gotten atleast 1.5 x that amount on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 And what exactly do you think the going rate for a slightly above average DE will be in 2008-2009 ? I think 5 mil per year looks like a pretty resonable deal. I'd bet you he'd have gotten atleast 1.5 x that amount on the open market. 22311[/snapback] And that shows his commitment to being in buffalo for the next 3-4 years... Aaron thank you. Now go get the sack against Leftwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I know there are more to stats than just sacks, but Schobel's deal looks like money well spent to me: Jevon Kearse: $66 million, six-year deal with the Philadelphia Eagles that includes a $16 million signing bonus. 10 sacks in 2003. Grant Wistrom: $33-million deal, six year deal with the Seattle Seahawks that includes a $14M signing bonus. 8 sacks in 2003. Adewale Ogunleye: $33 million, six year deal with the Chicago Bears. The deal included a $15 million signing bonus. 15 sacks in 2003. Aaron Schobel: $28 million, six year deal. Schobel received a $7 million signing bonus and will also earn a $2 million roster bonus next spring. 12 sacks in 2003. 22310[/snapback] I guess when you look at those numbers, it was a decent deal for TD... though I still want AS to pick up his game and become a complete DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I guess when you look at those numbers, it was a decent deal for TD...though I still want AS to pick up his game and become a complete DE. 22321[/snapback] Hey, we all want him to kick ass. But he is OUR most complete DE. And really, name another guy out there who would be better and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Schobel isn't average he is beyond that. He had 11.5 sacks last year. That is beyond average. Bruce Smith the sack leader only averaged 10.5 sacks a year himself. This is Schobel's 4th year in the league. He had 6.5 as a rookie, 8.5 his second year, and 11.5 last year. He keeps going up year after year. I assume he will get more this year because he hasn't reached his peak yet. Schobel isn't as flashy as Bruce Smith so he won't get as much attention around the league but he is good against the run and will give you 110 percent every game. He is a good solid DE. Any team would love to have him. He is worth the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Aaron Schobel: $28 million, six year deal. Schobel received a $7 million signing bonus and will also earn a $2 million roster bonus next spring. 12 sacks in 2003. 22310[/snapback] 5 year extension- good through 2009 season. But for only 9 million guaranteed money for a decent enough DE that is a good deal in todays NFL. Pat Williams will be next to sign - should be the easier of the 2 remaining to get signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack D. Ripper Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Umm Schobel is overrated. Plain and simple. He's an average player at best. His sacks are due more to solid coverage than anything else. He's a good player, no doubt. A $28 million player? No way. For my money, I'd rather extend Pat Williams who while older, still wreaks havock in the middle of that defensive line. 22280[/snapback] Yep! Big Pat is a guy we need to keep. I like Schobel, he plays hard and stays on the field but Williams is a more important part of this D. Schobel gets a lot of 'effort' sacks - hustling to the QB after he has been flushed or flustered at the end of his progression - but he won't beat many NFL tackles to the edge and I have yet to see him develop an inside move. Remember how the late John Butler (peace be upon him) got us in trouble with the cap????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Yep! Big Pat is a guy we need to keep. I like Schobel, he plays hard and stays on the field but Williams is a more important part of this D. Schobel gets a lot of 'effort' sacks - hustling to the QB after he has been flushed or flustered at the end of his progression - but he won't beat many NFL tackles to the edge and I have yet to see him develop an inside move. Remember how the late John Butler (peace be upon him) got us in trouble with the cap????? 22356[/snapback] I can't remember which game it was, but I saw AS do an inside spin move this preseason. I think he's been working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Productive DE's are NOT easy to come by. Good move TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 No they're not. And solid organizations spend high draft picks on them on a regular basis. Past Super Bowl caliber teams like New England, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Baltimore know this quite well. You draft a solid defensive lineman in the first round and you lock him up for 5-6 years at a palatable rookie figure. That's why instead of drafting Lee Evans in a draft filled with WR talent, I feel we should have gone after Will Smith or Udeze. They are as good if not better than Schobel and can be had for much, much cheaper. Productive DE's are NOT easy to come by. Good move TD. 22358[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Sacks are nice but run containment and QB hurries stop more drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzer32 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 AS numbers would be a hell of alot better if we had someone on the other side for teams to worry about. Teams can double team AS whenever they want and not have many worries with a couple of scrubs looking for their jock straps on the other side of the field. I sure hope one of those two scrubs can contribute this year and free up AS even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 AS numbers would be a hell of alot better if we had someone on the other side for teams to worry about. Teams can double team AS whenever they want and not have many worries with a couple of scrubs looking for their jock straps on the other side of the field. I sure hope one of those two scrubs can contribute this year and free up AS even more. 22396[/snapback] That's where the inability of Gildon to even make the team should be worrysome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest average Joe Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Schobel's sack numbers are very misleading. He picked up several against weak opponents and virtually NONE when it counted against good teams or good tackles. Sure he was overpaid, but the really BIG mistake would be to give Pat Williams big money at his age. At least Schobel is younger. Sign Jennings, say thanks and goodbye to big Pat. I'm sure he can still play but you can't keep everybody under the cap and he wants big money. New England has made many cuts of older players who were ready to be overpaid and they didn't overpay! It is the proper way to succeed in today's NFL imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That's where the inability of Gildon to even make the team should be worrysome. 22407[/snapback] Indeed. I think the fall-back is Posey. Look for Mario Haggen to get some playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 No they're not. And solid organizations spend high draft picks on them on a regular basis. Past Super Bowl caliber teams like New England, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Baltimore know this quite well. You draft a solid defensive lineman in the first round and you lock him up for 5-6 years at a palatable rookie figure. That's why instead of drafting Lee Evans in a draft filled with WR talent, I feel we should have gone after Will Smith or Udeze. They are as good if not better than Schobel and can be had for much, much cheaper. 22377[/snapback] This post is total BS, opinion or not. You have no idea if Smith or Udeze are even 1/2 as good as AS because AS is the only one with ANY track record in the NFL. AS has improved each season (see above info) and certainly would have gone (as is ALWAYS the case) for more $ on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 This post is total BS, opinion or not. You have no idea if Smith or Udeze are even 1/2 as good as AS because AS is the only one with ANY track record in the NFL. AS has improved each season (see above info) and certainly would have gone (as is ALWAYS the case) for more $ on the open market. 22426[/snapback] Is Evans going to be the 3d WR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Schobel's sack numbers are very misleading. He picked up several against weak opponents and virtually NONE when it counted against good teams or good tackles. Sure he was overpaid, but the really BIG mistake would be to give Pat Williams big money at his age. At least Schobel is younger. Sign Jennings, say thanks and goodbye to big Pat. I'm sure he can still play but you can't keep everybody under the cap and he wants big money. New England has made many cuts of older players who were ready to be overpaid and they didn't overpay! It is the proper way to succeed in today's NFL imho. 22415[/snapback] If this is true , then every guy who gets double digit sacks falls into your same convenient forced statistical category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 stop the madness! i can't read this crap any longer! how about everyone adopt a code next to his or her member name so we'll know into which of these camps you fall: a -- love donahoe and every move he makes b -- respect donahoe as a very good GM but think it's fair to debate and critique his decisions rationally c -- hate donahoe; he sucks and everything he has done is stevestojan it will make it much easier to determine which threads and posts to read, and which ones to ignore. thanks for your cooperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Is Evans going to be the 3d WR? 22430[/snapback] Que? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 stop the madness! i can't read this crap any longer! how about everyone adopt a code next to his or her member name so we'll know into which of these camps you fall: a -- love donahoe and every move he makes b -- respect donahoe as a very good GM but think it's fair to debate and critique his decisions rationally c -- hate donahoe; he sucks and everything he has done is stevestojan it will make it much easier to determine which threads and posts to read, and which ones to ignore. thanks for your cooperation. 22433[/snapback] I don't see what this has to do with loving TD or not. Just the facts baby..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Is Evans going to be the 3d WR? 22430[/snapback] I'd think so. He had a nice college career, and both management and fans want to see 1st rounders get some playing time. When all is said and done, pro football is show biz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 No they're not. And solid organizations spend high draft picks on them on a regular basis. Past Super Bowl caliber teams like New England, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Baltimore know this quite well. You draft a solid defensive lineman in the first round and you lock him up for 5-6 years at a palatable rookie figure. That's why instead of drafting Lee Evans in a draft filled with WR talent, I feel we should have gone after Will Smith or Udeze. They are as good if not better than Schobel and can be had for much, much cheaper. 22377[/snapback] Please don't state you opinion as fact. I suggest you check the draft records of the teams you just quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 That's an insane amount of money for an average DE. 22283[/snapback] Actually, it isn't. Check out the rest of the thread, and note the signing bonus. Much lower. That means if we need to cut him, the remainder of the amortized bonus that would hit the cap is minimal compared to others. Not only that, the salary itself is probably backloaded, so when you look at the total amount of the contract, rather than the average per year, it's actually quite sane. It's a damn good deal for the Bills. Salary-cap friendly and pays decent RDE money to a ABOVE AVERAGE RDE. I don't know how you figure double-digit sacks as average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Actually, it isn't. Check out the rest of the thread, and note the signing bonus. Much lower. That means if we need to cut him, the remainder of the amortized bonus that would hit the cap is minimal compared to others. Not only that, the salary itself is probably backloaded, so when you look at the total amount of the contract, rather than the average per year, it's actually quite sane. It's a damn good deal for the Bills. Salary-cap friendly and pays decent RDE money to a ABOVE AVERAGE RDE. I don't know how you figure double-digit sacks as average. 22489[/snapback] IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel? 22494[/snapback] I'd rather have Schoebel than Seymour. Pats are built differently than the Bills. Schoebel was on a defense that was pretty good, and he was a key part of it. I'd rather have Schobel than ogun because His production has been improving over a period of time - even when on bad defenses. Ogun is still an unknown - he had one good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with Todd on OGun, though I'd rather have Seymour than AS. He's one of the best in the game right now. And Foxboro, don't think that you're breaking news to all of us when you mention that sacks aren't everything. AS is not good ONLY because of sacks. There are plenty of us here who have either played the game and/or have a fairly deep understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with Todd on OGun, though I'd rather have Seymour than AS. He's one of the best in the game right now. And Foxboro, don't think that you're breaking news to all of us when you mention that sacks aren't everything. AS is not good ONLY because of sacks. There are plenty of us here who have either played the game and/or have a fairly deep understanding of it. 22511[/snapback] I love it when you guys talk down to me. Todd - Schobel over Seymour? Are you serious?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSouth Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Based on last year´s performance, I´d rather have OGun or Seymour over Schobel, but that is unimportant. He is what we have, and he is the best DE on the roster. Good job signing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I love it when you guys talk down to me. Todd - Schobel over Seymour? Are you serious?!? 22517[/snapback] Talk down to you???? Look in the Mirror my friend. I was simply defending some of my board mates here is that ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I'd rather have Schoebel than Seymour. Pats are built differently than the Bills. Schoebel was on a defense that was pretty good, and he was a key part of it. I'd rather have Schobel than ogun because His production has been improving over a period of time - even when on bad defenses. Ogun is still an unknown - he had one good year. 22503[/snapback] Todd, I think Schobel still has room to improve especially in getting caught going to far in the backfield anticipating a pass, when in turn it is a running play, but overall a good signing for the Bills. But..............................and this is just my opinion, Seymour is one of the top5 DL in the game today. He is a man among boys who can play both DT & DE and will be an All Pro for many years to come. I'd give up Schobel & Denney and then some to get my hands on Seymour. He's that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarkinBanks Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I think Seymour over Schobel is a no brainer, Seymour is one of the best in the league no doubt. The question is what he will get paid when his contract is up? Will the Pats pony up to keep him or is he gone? Then you can have a true comparison between the decision TD made on Schobel and the Pats' philosophy about not overpaying players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzer32 Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel? 22494[/snapback] This is just stupid. Are we third graders now. (In a high pitched whiny voice) who would you rather have??? Yeah, well my dad can beat your dad up!!! Take that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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