Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: www.strawman.com indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, vorpma said: Yes, typical millennial response, still in your pajamas in your parents basement hoping something in your life happens! And yet someone as old and as wise as you only seems to have one retort to go to when people criticize your drunken post! Really makes you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, CSBill said: Probably something wrong with me, but I take joy in that they both lost today. ? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Anyone other than "Don Martindale"? lol look for yourself. you just seemed as though it had not been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The narrative has been those other guys are only good because their receivers bail them out and Allen if you just gave him those receivers he would be the same. The truth is that the Quarterbacks are the stars on those two teams. Allen was majorly hurt by his receivers last year.... but there are plenty of JAGs catching passes on the Chiefs and, especially, the Texans too. Would you say that Allen is working with comparable talent at wideout as Chiefs/Texans? Do you believe having talented at wideout improves quarterback play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Would you say that Allen is working with comparable talent at wideout as Chiefs/Texans? Do you believe having talented at wideout improves quarterback play? I think Hopkins and Hill are #1 receiver talents and Josh doesn't have one of those. After that the rest of the receivers on those teams are JAGs (well except for Sammy who is always hurt). The reason people think Will Fuller and Hardman and all these other guys are good is because they have Watson and Mahomes throwing them the football. I think talented wideouts make a Quarterback's jobs easier. I don't think they make them better Quarterbacks. There are some QBs you have to surround with top flight playmakers and there are some QBs who make things move with whatever you give them. Personally I think Watson and Mahomes are both in the latter category. Maybe Allen will be too at some point. I am not sure he is there yet. And again, for the millionth time.... I like where Josh is. He has been pretty good this season except the Pats game. Edited October 13, 2019 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, vorpma said: Since last year I have heard that Mayfield and Mahomes were the new Joe Montana and John Elway and Josh Allen a turnover machine! Looks like Josh is leading in the most important statistic - won loss record!! I also read constantly about the new NFL - pass crazy, showtime, arena football, scoreboards like a pinball machine. Looks like the mighty KC offense and Andy Reid can get beat by ground and pound offense and great defense - how can this be? While i think Mayfield is the most overhyped QB in the league and not very good, Mahomes is a stud and already proven league MVP. I like Josh Allen, but would take Mahomes over Allen everytime, moves his feet better and just a great QB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Watkins101 said: I realize this is exaggeration on purpose, but Josh has been never come close to a game that good, and Baker hasn't had a game that bad. You can't say this at all. But I did say it. It's right there in all its digital glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: look for yourself. you just seemed as though it had not been said. the OP started a thread as though this was a commonly held opinion. Turns out no one in the “media” ever said it. It was one guy. Strawman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think Hopkins and Hill are #1 receiver talents and Josh doesn't have one of those. After that the rest of the receivers on those teams are JAGs (well except for Sammy who is always hurt). The reason people think Will Fuller and Hardman and all these other guys are good is because they have Watson and Mahomes throwing them the football. I think talented wideouts make a Quarterback's jobs easier. I don't think they make them better Quarterbacks. There are some QBs you have to surround with top flight playmakers and there are some QBs who make things move with whatever you give them. Personally I think Watson and Mahomes are both in the latter category. Maybe Allen will be too at some point. I am not sure he is there yet. And again, for the millionth time.... I like where Josh is. He has been pretty good this season except the Pats game. I think Fuller would come in and immediately compete at WR1 on this team. And I don’t claim to know how Allen would look throwing in KC to Hill and Kelce but I’d hazard a guess the difference in pass catching quality would make for a significant improvement. 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: the OP started a thread as though this was a commonly held opinion. Turns out no one in the “media” ever said it. It was one guy. Strawman Where in original post does he claim this was a widely held view in the media? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I think Fuller would come in and immediately compete at WR1 on this team. And I don’t claim to know how Allen would look throwing in KC to Hill and Kelce but I’d hazard a guess the difference in pass catching quality would make for a significant improvement. Well we disagree strongly on Fuller then. Fuller is JAG. He is made by Deshaun Watson and his with and without Watson career numbers could not support that view any more strongly than they do. I think Allen would look better throwing to Hill and Kelce. I don't think Mahomes would look much different throwing to John Brown and Cole Beasley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: And I don’t claim to know how Allen would look throwing in KC to Hill and Kelce but I’d hazard a guess the difference in pass catching quality would make for a significant improvement. The difference is Zay Jones standing there and watching a ball get intercepted on the sideline, and this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The difference is Zay Jones standing there and watching a ball get intercepted on the sideline, and this: Zay isn't even JAG though. Zay will be out of the league by next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, vorpma said: Nope watched the game junior! 1 hour ago, vorpma said: Go to your room and watch the replay son! Now this is truly humorous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Well we disagree strongly on Fuller then. Fuller is JAG. He is made by Deshaun Watson and his with and without Watson career numbers could not support that view any more strongly than they do. I think Allen would look better throwing to Hill and Kelce. I don't think Mahomes would look much different throwing to John Brown and Cole Beasley. I don’t think Mahomes is suddenly going to turn Brown into Tyreek Hill...I mean, that’s just not realistic. 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Zay isn't even JAG though. Zay will be out of the league by next year. And he’s been one of Allen’s main receivers for his career thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, GoBills808 said: I don’t think Mahomes is suddenly going to turn Brown into Tyreek Hill...I mean, that’s just not realistic. No. He wouldn't. That is not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is Mahomes would find ways to use what he had. He isn't going to turn Hardmen into Tyreek Hill either but the other week when he was his #1 wideout he produced a monster game with him. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: And he’s been one of Allen’s main receivers for his career thus far. Yes. Nobody is arguing Josh hasn't been hurt by his receivers. What I am arguing is there are some Quarterbacks who make things happen pretty much whoever they have out there and some who need pieces. Mahomes and Watson I think are in the former category. I hope Allen ends up there and he might well do.... what he did with Foster and McKenzie down the stretch last season gives room for hope in that regard.... but at the moment I think Josh needs pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No. He wouldn't. That is not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is Mahomes would find ways to use what he had. He isn't going to turn Hardmen into Tyreek Hill either but the other week when he was his #1 wideout he produced a monster game with him. I agree. But equivalently, Allen would benefit greatly (as Mahomes has) from his receiving corps. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I agree. But equivalently, Allen would benefit greatly (as Mahomes has) from his receiving corps. Allen would never give Pringle >100 yards recieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I think Fuller would come in and immediately compete at WR1 on this team. And I don’t claim to know how Allen would look throwing in KC to Hill and Kelce but I’d hazard a guess the difference in pass catching quality would make for a significant improvement. Where in original post does he claim this was a widely held view in the media? that was clearly his insinuation...unless you think he was suddenly inspired by 2 quotes from a single DC to begin this particular thread. no you don’t think that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Allen would never give Pringle >100 yards recieving. He gave Zay Jones >90 which I consider a far greater accomplishment. Just now, Mr. WEO said: that was clearly his insinuation...unless you think he was suddenly inspired by 2 quotes from a single DC to begin this particular thread. no you don’t think that Point being, strawman is as strawman does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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