syhuang Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, VW82 said: I say “look at blitz rate as a way to see if defenses respect Josh’s ability to make quick decisions.” You say “here’s how everyone performed vs the blitz!” I say “no just look at blitz rate.” You say “glad we can move on from how guys did vs the blitz.” Nice straw man. Also, why are you continually bringing up Hodges when he’s played four games? That’s just as bad as the PFF tweet. BTW, as someone who lives on the west coast and frequently goes to Seahawks games I can tell you that one of the knocks on Wilson for years has been his ability to make quick decisions. You’re never going to find a stat that shows definitely what you’re asking me to show. There are too many parts and pieces which is why you have to look at a bunch of different things, quantitative and qualitative, and piece it together which is what I tried to do. Glad we are in agreement that there is no stat to show a quarterback is slower to read a defense. The only problem I have with your earlier stats is that you didn't show the correlation between the stats and your claim. It's good that you now realize it. BTW, in addition to Hodges, I'm pretty sure I also list Trubisky who plays 13 games this year. But that's beyond the point now since you admit blitz rate isn't an indicator either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Penfield45 said: exactly. Daboll is so out of his depth at OC. he just has no idea how to make the game simple for his young QB. get someone like Jay Gruden in here and watch Allen flourish under him. you see QB's around the league padding their stats with 10 screen passes per game. Daboll consistently schemes open receivers, and our QB either can't hit them or the receivers drop the ball a lot of the time. Our screen game needs help, but I think that's more a product of our linemen not being mobile enough to execute it very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Wins are a team stat. I like that the Bills are winning. I think our QB has contributed very little to us winning that most NFL QBs couldn't replicate or improve upon. I think there are at least 20 NFL QBs who would have allowed this team to go at least 10-4 so far. Really? As another poster pointed out, Allen has accounted for over 80% of our offense this season, is the highest rated 4th quarter qb in the league, and is tied for 4th quarter comebacks. Not to mention our defense hasn’t had any scores all year. Sounds to me like you are VERY wrong. Not surprising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfield45 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 at the end of the day Josh needs to dramatically improve next season. our 10 wins and playoff berth is sort of papering over the cracks on offense. We are ranked bottom 5 in passing again. Averaging 200 ypg and throwing at 59% completion is not the improvement we hoped for as fans but it is enough this year bc of how poor our schedule has been. Of course not all his fault, he has a bad OC and mediocre talent on offense. 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Daboll consistently schemes open receivers, and our QB either can't hit them or the receivers drop the ball a lot of the time. Our screen game needs help, but I think that's more a product of our linemen not being mobile enough to execute it very well. yea we do need to improve the talent on offense big time. if we were a simply a top 10 or even top 15 passing offense we would be talking about SB contenders this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, syhuang said: Glad we are in agreement that there is no stat to show a quarterback is slower to read a defense. The only problem I have with your earlier stats is that you didn't show the correlation between the stats and your claim. It's good that you now realize it. BTW, in addition to Hodges, I'm pretty sure I also list Trubisky who plays 13 games this year. But that's beyond the point now since you admit blitz rate isn't an indicator either. Glad we’re in agreement that you can’t come up with even a single piece of evidence to support the opposing POV. You’re asking me to show correlation between opposing blitz rate and the defensive coordinator’s respect for the QB’s ability to get the ball out quickly. Really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, whorlnut said: Really? As another poster pointed out, Allen has accounted for over 80% of our offense this season, is the highest rated 4th quarter qb in the league, and is tied for 4th quarter comebacks. Not to mention our defense hasn’t had any scores all year. Sounds to me like you are VERY wrong. Not surprising... Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, VW82 said: Glad we’re in agreement that you can’t come up with even a single piece of evidence to support the opposing POV. You’re asking me to show correlation between opposing blitz rate and the defensive coordinator’s respect for the QB’s ability to get the ball out quickly. Really?? Actually I do not have the opposing POV. I do not claim whether Allen is slower to read a defense or not since I know there is no stat to indicate it, just as you also agreed. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. That’s an opinion. Nothing more. I think you discount the fact that Allen’s teammates love him and respect his style of play. Can you say that about these mythical 20 other QBs? I bet you can’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Our screen game needs help, but I think that's more a product of our linemen not being mobile enough to execute it very well. You watch this team at all, really? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. Interesting. Your list of those 20+? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: That’s an opinion. Nothing more. I think you discount the fact that Allen’s teammates love him and respect his style of play. Can you say that about these mythical 20 other QBs? I bet you can’t. I bet most top 20 NFL QBs are loved by their team. That's not a phenomenon unique to Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. I promise I'm not going to call you dumb... I am, however, going to point out that you believe that there are 20 QBs that would be more productive than the guy that's 6th among QBs in TDs. And that's an incredibly stupid statement. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. In passing performance, maybe. But when you account for what Allen provides on the ground I think that gives you a more complete picture of his performance as a quarterback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: I bet most top 20 NFL QBs are loved by their team. That's not a phenomenon unique to Josh Allen. I think you’re wrong. But you are entitled to your OPINION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Capco said: In passing performance, maybe. But when you account for what Allen provides on the ground I think that gives you a more complete picture of his performance as a quarterback. He says this on the back of Also claiming that the WRs aren't good and the OL isn't good. He's...unique...to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Interesting. Your list of those 20+? I think the following QBs would all have equalled or out produced the points production we've produced this year in our offense with this defense and special teams supporting them. I think we'd be 10-4 if you swapped any of them with Allen into this 53 man roster. Jackson, Brees, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Garoppolo, Cousins, Prescott, Ryan, Stafford, Brady, Tannehill, Wentz, Murray, Roethlisberger, Brissett, Mayfield, Bridgewater, Rivers. I think Daniel Jones, Darnold and Jameis Winston (his turnovers wouldn't matter because our defense is so good) would all be close. Edited December 17, 2019 by jrober38 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. Man, your crusade is so old and tired. Get some new material, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think the following QBs would all have equalled or out produced the points production we've produced this year in our offense with this defense and special teams supporting them. Jackson, Brees, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Garoppolo, Cousins, Prescott, Ryan, Stafford, Brady, Tannehill, Wentz, Murray, Roethlisberger, Brissett, Mayfield, Bridgewater, Rivers. I think Daniel Jones, Darnold and Jameis Winston (his turnovers wouldn't matter because our defense is so good) would all be close. there are some names in here that are just flat out comical..... WOW. this speaks volumes about what we are dealing with when you decide to speak on the qb situation.... which sorta stinks because its basically all you decide to speak on. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I bet most top 20 NFL QBs are loved by their team. That's not a phenomenon unique to Josh Allen. That’s an interesting bet. Loved is an interesting adjective. I bet Chargers fans “love” Rivers for his career but I doubt they love his performance this year. I would say that number is closer to 14 in terms of active QBs in the NFL in which a large portion of the fan base loves them as their “guy.” Here would be my list: Brady LJ Brees Dak Wentz Goff Wilson Jimmy Ryan Minshew Darnold Baker Murray Mahomes Rodgers Watson Can’t think of anyone else and some of those are debatable honestly. More than 14 but less than 20. Edited December 17, 2019 by FireChans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: He says this on the back of Also claiming that the WRs aren't good and the OL isn't good. He's...unique...to say the least Mayfield is a complete turnover machine with weapons to spare on offense. the guy has OBJ, Jarvis landry and nick chubb at his disposal.... and he claims he'd be better than allen in buffalo this year..... TRY AND WRAP YOUR BRAIN AROUND THAT. ….. good lord. Edited December 17, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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