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Mass shooting at El Paso Walmart/and also Dayton OH


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12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Please stop blaming the media.  That, too, is weak.  Very trumpish.  You're better than that (and him).

 

There is no practical need for military-style and/or semi-automatic weapons.  Zilch.  Zero.  No one is using single-shot firearms to carry out terrorist attacks.  It's ridiculous that these things are sold in stores to the public.

 

For what???

 

So that we can hunt super animals; such as the flying squirrel and the electric eel!!

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50 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

OK, let's do it this way:

 

Since we're all in the mood for regulating things, how about we regulate leftist speech? No more rallies, no more left-leaning papers. Sounds good?

 

Yes that way a paperboy will never walk into a Walmart and kill a bunch of people with the latest addition of the Washington Post.

 

43 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

This is how progressivism works.

 

As I'm against progressivism (it's a disease), yeah. I don't feel the need to accomodate their desires in the least.

 

It's not that nothing can be done, in my eyes. It's that nothing SHOULD be done.

 

There's a difference.

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

This is most CERTAINLY a relevant thought, Hap. The second amendment enshrines an inalienable right, much the same way the first does. If one of the inalienable rights is suddenly not inalienable, then why not the rest?

 

Yes it can clearly never be changed just like the 18th amendment.

 

39 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Since when is it an extremist position to not want to surrender my rights to anyone else?

 

 

 

People who are of the opinion that gun control is an answer to any problem.

 

Your extremist position is that any regulation of guns is equal to banning them.

 

31 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

From a guy who's smarter than just about anyone in this thread.

 

 

Right and we shouldn't try to do anything to decrease the rate of death by medical errors, fight the flu(that's just nature right), prevent suicides(wonder how many of those involved a gun), don't even know why we have speed limits, and homicide is just survival of the fittest. Seriously Neil deGrasse Tyson is an astrophysicist not a criminologist, psychologist, or political scientist.

Edited by Warcodered
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2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Your extremist position is that any regulation of guns is equal to banning them.


Gugny's respsonses to this thread have proven me correct, so far. He insists there's "No good reason" to own a "semiautomatic" weapon.

 

Meaning that in his mind, it's perfectly reasonable to ban a 9mm Beretta M9 pistol. That's extremist foolishness.

 

My contention is not that regulation is equivalent to ban. My contention is that agreeing to one step toward a total ban is just that: enabling a future total ban.

 

 

6 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Why background check at all then, let's allow any nut job to get his hands on anything he wants.

 

There already are background checks.

 

How much more do you want checked? Blood tests? DNA? Urine sample? All of the above?

 

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Just for the record. I'm on board with whatever background checks are deemed necessary to prevent lunatics from buying a gun. I'm curious however,  as to when the ACLU will step in and say people's rights are being infringed upon. 

 

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4 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Just for the record. I'm on board with whatever background checks are deemed necessary to prevent lunatics from buying a gun. I'm curious however,  as to when the ACLU will step in and say people's rights are being infringed upon. 

 

 

I think it's safe to say they won't.

 

They're all about the first, not so much the second.

 

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9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Gugny's respsonses to this thread have proven me correct, so far. He insists there's "No good reason" to own a "semiautomatic" weapon.

 

Meaning that in his mind, it's perfectly reasonable to ban a 9mm Beretta M9 pistol. That's extremist foolishness.

 

My contention is not that regulation is equivalent to ban. My contention is that agreeing to one step toward a total ban is just that: enabling a future total ban.

 

 

 

There already are background checks.

 

How much more do you want checked? Blood tests? DNA? Urine sample? All of the above?

 

So regulation doesn't equal a ban but if we have regulation we'll end up with a ban? :wallbash:

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2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I think it's safe to say they won't.

 

They're all about the first, not so much the second.

 

I think you're right on board there. I believe they wont get anywhere near the gun control issue if it ever happens. 

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3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I think it's safe to say they won't.

 

They're all about the first, not so much the second.

 

He's right. You're just not thinking of all angles. Let's say they ban everyone with a mental disorder. The ACLU would be up in arms that transgenders aren't allowed to own guns due to their gender dysphoria.

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Eventually. That's the nature of regulation. It never decreases.

 

Yes because when has regulation ever been decreased.

44 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And that's the problem. No one's thinking about this rationally, nor do they ever after something like this happens. If we were thinking rationally, we'd be thinking like NDgT did in his tweet above. THAT is the rational response.

 

Your definition of extreme and mine are radically different.

 

Your odds of dying at the hands of a drunk driver are FAR greater than from a mass shooting. Should we restrict alcohol to law-abiding citizens to stop DUI?

 

How'd THAT work the last time it was tried?
 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Just for the record. I'm on board with whatever background checks are deemed necessary to prevent lunatics from buying a gun. I'm curious however,  as to when the ACLU will step in and say people's rights are being infringed upon. 

 

On the 12th.

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6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Gugny's respsonses to this thread have proven me correct, so far. He insists there's "No good reason" to own a "semiautomatic" weapon.

 

Meaning that in his mind, it's perfectly reasonable to ban a 9mm Beretta M9 pistol. That's extremist foolishness.

 

My contention is not that regulation is equivalent to ban. My contention is that agreeing to one step toward a total ban is just that: enabling a future total ban.

 

 

 

There already are background checks.

 

How much more do you want checked? Blood tests? DNA? Urine sample? All of the above?

 

Not everything requires a background check (not all States require it, private sales, loopholes etc.)

 

How about the proposal from Dewine from Ohio for "Red flag" situations too;

"Red flag" laws allow family members or police to seek removal of firearms from individuals whom they fear will cause harm to themselves or others. States with such laws allow guns to be removed temporarily before a judge grants a longer-term "emergency risk protection order." 

 

There are a lot of common sense things that can be done but doing nothing can't be the solution.

 

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32 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

 

If it bleeds, it leads baby. Let's get every reporter out there to investigate this guy's family, tell his life story. Whatever were his motivations? Right, not a problem :rolleyes:

 

If we were smart about these things, those shooters would die in anonymity. But we're not. I digress.

 

So, you're against semi-automatic weapons, huh? How about something like this:

 

88D46CF5D4C694A3C80149CAED8B8803DD7E464E

There's no practical use for that kind of firearm in your mind? No reason a homeowner should want something like that? How's the police response time in Glens Falls these days? Probably better than in North Argyle.

 

 

There's no need for semi-automatic weapons for home defense.  And I'm in Queensbury.  We have the Warren County Sheriffs and the Staties covering us.

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1 minute ago, HeHateMe said:

Not everything requires a background check (not all States require it, private sales, loopholes etc.)

 

How about the proposal from Dewine from Ohio for "Red flag" situations too;

"Red flag" laws allow family members or police to seek removal of firearms from individuals whom they fear will cause harm to themselves or others. States with such laws allow guns to be removed temporarily before a judge grants a longer-term "emergency risk protection order." 

 

There are a lot of common sense things that can be done but doing nothing can't be the solution.

 

 

And when someone slips through that set of rules and shoots something up? What then?

 

 

Just now, Gugny said:

 

There's no need for semi-automatic weapons for home defense.  And I'm in Queensbury.  We have the Warren County Sheriffs and the Staties covering us.


What's the response time for your home?

 

Quick enough that an armed intruder would be stopped before you or your kid endured bodily harm or worse?

 

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Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And when someone slips through that set of rules and shoots something up? What then?

 

 

 

Back at square one, nothing is 100% going to fix this complex issue but there are things that can reduce the frequency.  But by your standards, if we can't stop 100 out of 100 attacks, why bother stopping 1 of them or 99 of them then?

 

Horrible argument.

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And when someone slips through that set of rules and shoots something up? What then?

 

 


What's the response time for your home?

 

Quick enough that an armed intruder would be stopped before you or your kid endured bodily harm or worse?

 

 

I refuse to live in fear.  I also refuse to have a gun in my home.  I grew up with multiple firearms in the house.  I'm not anti-gun, nor am I anti-responsible gun ownership.  However, if I did choose to have a gun for home protection purposes, I'd be comfortable with something that wasn't semi-automatic.

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2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You forgot jumping Asian carp:

 

[NSFGTW...

(NotSafeForGugnyTriggeringWarning) @Gugny : Please go to your room and don't watch]

 

 

 

That's not fishing; nor is it hunting.  It's killing.

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7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And when someone slips through that set of rules and shoots something up? What then?

 

 


What's the response time for your home?

 

Quick enough that an armed intruder would be stopped before you or your kid endured bodily harm or worse?

 

and what about when you accidentally shoot your kid because they got up in the middle of the night for a glass of water, what then Joe?

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Except of semi-automatic weapons. That's ok to fear.

 

 

I never said I was afraid of semi-automatic weapons (or anything, for that matter).  I simply opined that there is no practical need for them outside of military and/or police use.

 

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1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

and what about when you accidentally shoot your kid because they got up in the middle of the night for a glass of water what then Joe?


Then I'd be liable for my own kid's death.

 

What's your point? We shouldn't defend our own homes? Trust the cops, the same cops that half the anti-gunners think are corrupt and racist for our own protection?

 

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I never said I was afraid of semi-automatic weapons (or anything, for that matter).  I simply opined that there is no practical need for them outside of military and/or police use.

 

 

A 9mm pistol is an excellent tool for home defense. So is a shotgun. So is a semiautomatic rifle. Why should a law-abiding citizen have to choose from a restricted list?

 

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:


Then I'd be liable for my own kid's death.

 

What's your point? We shouldn't defend our own homes? Trust the cops, the same cops that half the anti-gunners think are corrupt and racist for our own protection?

 

Your right it's almost as if I made a completely ridiculous statement to manipulate people's emotions.

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1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Your right it's almost as if I made a completely ridiculous statement to manipulate people's emotions.

 

That IS the entire crux of this conversation, congratulations. Pro-gun control hysteria after every mass shooting is just that.

 

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5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

A 9mm pistol is an excellent tool for home defense. So is a shotgun. So is a semiautomatic rifle. Why should a law-abiding citizen have to choose from a restricted list?

 

 

Because that's part of life.  Lines are drawn all the time.  There's a reason we can't legally possess things like tanks, grenades and missile launchers.  What's the reason?  Well - one of them is that there's no practical need for a civilian to have one.

 

My opinion is that the same goes for semi-automatic weapons.

 

Most mass shooters in the U.S. have also been law abiding citizens until they used legally obtained semi-automatic weapons to murder multiple people.

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3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That IS the entire crux of this conversation, congratulations. Pro-gun control hysteria after every mass shooting is just that.

 

Yeah the only difference I suppose is that I made up my story on the fly and the others have been emotional responses to an event that just happened but you know completely the same.

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So, who gets to draw the lines?

 

 

Elected representatives.

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Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So, who gets to draw the lines?

 

 

You should.  Because your invested in this as a gun right's person.  You should be able to see when what you love is causing harm to other people.

 

It's NOT about you.  It's about you making hard choices for the benefit of others.

 

Sorry to give you "the speech."

 

What makes you anything but a gun right's NIMBY or an "I got mine" type?

 

You be the parent, you make hard, selfless choice.  Your special interest shouldn't be blinding you.

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2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You be the parent, you make hard, selfless choice. 

 

 

The hard choice is always the preservation of liberty. You think it's fun taking this stance in times like this?

 

Would you be shocked to know I don't currently own a weapon?

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

Elected representatives.

 

Unless of course, they're pro-gun rights, right?
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The hard choice is always the preservation of liberty. You think it's fun taking this stance in times like this?

 

Would you be shocked to know I don't currently own a weapon?

 

Unless of course, they're pro-gun rights, right?
 

 

What's your take on shutting down 8chan?  Or at least moderating it?

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10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

That IS the entire crux of this conversation, congratulations. Pro-gun control hysteria after every mass shooting is just that.

 

 

Well, since there seems to be shootings just about every single week, does that still count as hysteria?  I’m no vocabulary wiz, but to me hysteria implies an acute reaction to a rare or unusual event.  What does hysteria become when it is almost ongoing?  Serious question.

 

I carry a 9mm concealed here in Vermont just about at all times, BTW, but I will admit that I am for some forms of gun control.  

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Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Well, since there seems to be shootings just about every single week, does that still count as hysteria?

 

I think any emotion-driven response is hysterical (in the classical sense).

 

How do you feel about someone thinking it'd be OK to confiscate your 9mm, because it's "unnecessary?"

 

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2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I think any emotion-driven response is hysterical (in the classical sense).

 

How do you feel about someone thinking it'd be OK to confiscate your 9mm, because it's "unnecessary?"

 

 

That’s a stretch and you know it.  I am a responsible gun owner.  I have never been convicted of a crime...certainly not a felony.  A 9mm pistol is entirely different than an AR-15 and you know it.

 

Edit: And I’d be happy if some violent felon with a history of significant mental health issues was denied their 9mm.

Edited by Johnny Hammersticks
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10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The hard choice is always the preservation of liberty. You think it's fun taking this stance in times like this?

 

Would you be shocked to know I don't currently own a weapon?

 

Unless of course, they're pro-gun rights, right?
 

 

No they should represent their constituents to the best of their abilities. Even if I'm in the minority(not sure I am on this one) I believe elected representatives should be the ones to decide on regulations because I know of no better system to do so, do you?

Edited by Warcodered
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