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Great Q and A with Ken Dorsey (Athletic Subscription Required)

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Cunningham was an unconventional freak... Overall athlete I think he compares best to Elway in his ability to scramble, arm strength and pure physical strength.  Elway's biggest problem was as a former baseball player he left cross hairs early on in his  receivers chest... but he developed touch and became a great QB... Joe Ferguson had that kind of arm strength from what I remember as a rookie and Archie Manning had a big arm.  Guys with touch but not as much athletic ability were Fouts and Marino... Jim Kelly had an underrated arm and though not much of a  runner, was a pretty good athlete as well... played Linebacker in high school and never forget one of his hits I think on Bubba McDowell after he threw an interception.  

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19 hours ago, mob16151 said:

I love the fact that Dorsey let's the QB do what they're comfortable with. Instead of trying to rework everything they do mechanics wise.

This actually gave me a ‘wtf?’ response. Dorsey not caring how a QB sets up to pass -and doing it the same way every time, speaks volumes to his NFL career -which was nothing. Every single aspect of a QB is studied to the nth degree, looking for a tip to the play. If he throws a quick hitch left better by having his left foot back in the gun, but switches it for a screen to the right, everybody in the League knows it by next week. Josh alluded to this somewhat with Chris Simms -how he ended up being too ‘open’ in his stance to be consistently accurate throwing quick outs. That was DA showing him that. A QB has to stick to only one way every time. If he can’t make decent throws to the other side, Practice, Practice, Practice. Anything else is a tip off and unacceptable. 

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13 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

certainly would trust their critical analyses citing pros, cons as well as the "in betweens" before any urinalists yapping.....

 

I was actually going to start a band called The Yapping Urinalists. I need a bassist. You in? ;)

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Why was Ken Dorsey asked so many questions about Josh Allen?

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Subscribe to the Athletic, very impressive reporting, on all sports. Hopefully the publication can survive and thrive. 

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1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

This actually gave me a ‘wtf?’ response. Dorsey not caring how a QB sets up to pass -and doing it the same way every time, speaks volumes to his NFL career -which was nothing. Every single aspect of a QB is studied to the nth degree, looking for a tip to the play. If he throws a quick hitch left better by having his left foot back in the gun, but switches it for a screen to the right, everybody in the League knows it by next week. Josh alluded to this somewhat with Chris Simms -how he ended up being too ‘open’ in his stance to be consistently accurate throwing quick outs. That was DA showing him that. A QB has to stick to only one way every time. If he can’t make decent throws to the other side, Practice, Practice, Practice. Anything else is a tip off and unacceptable. 

 

It seems though that what the article indicated was that Dorsey doesn’t care which foot goes where or if your arm isn’t exactly 90 degrees with your wrist and shoulder. If whatever you do works, that’s what Dorsey is going to work with. 

 

I dont think the article indicates that there is a nonchalant attitude towards mechanics 

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I think both Dorsey and Daboll are giddy as schoolgirls at the prospect of watching Allen grow into this position.  He's going to make them look very, very good.

 

Who knows, maybe in a year or two Dabes gets his HC shot and Dorsey takes over as OC.  I'd be cool with that if the Bills are winning football games.

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23 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Size, speed, strength, for a QB, arm strength. Overall athletic gifted ness that cannot be taught.

Aren't the first ones tangibles?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2019 at 11:53 AM, whatdrought said:

 

Size, speed, strength, for a QB, arm strength. Overall athletic gifted ness that cannot be taught.

 

People say this kind of thing and it’s just not true. The only thing on that list that cannot be taught or trained is height. That’s purely genetic. 

 

Weight, Speed, Strength, Agility, Dexterity, all can be taught. Especially at the pro level when guys are not limited by NCAA restrictions on workouts and exercise plans. A great example of this is in the Chris Simms interview. Josh Allen says himself that he didn’t develop his speed until he began training for the draft. And we see how that turned out. He was slow in High School and College. That’s why his speed was so surprising to everyone. Because it was a new addition. Something he had learned. 

 

Aaron Rodgers DID NOT have a cannon for an arm when he was drafted out of Cal. He learned better mechanics, and trained and developed into the best QB of his generation. 

 

While it’s true that some guys are “born with it”, others are not, and they have to work harder. But to say that you cannot teach athletic ability is just flat out wrong. No offense. 

Edited by RobbRiddicksTDLeap

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

 

People say this kind of thing and it’s just not true. The only thing on that list that cannot be taught or trained is height. That’s purely genetic. 

 

Weight, Speed, Strength, Agility, Dexterity, all can be taught. Especially at the pro level when guys are not limited by NCAA restrictions on workouts and exercise plans. A great example of this is in the Chris Simms interview. Josh Allen says himself that he didn’t develop his speed until he began training for the draft. And we see how that turned out. He was slow in High School and College. That’s why his speed was so surprising to everyone. Because it was a new addition. Something he had learned. 

 

Aaron Rodgers DID NOT have a cannon for an arm when he was drafted out of Cal. He learned better mechanics, and trained and developed into the best QB of his generation. 

 

While it’s true that some guys are “born with it”, others are not, and they have to work harder. But to say that you cannot teach athletic ability is just flat out wrong. No offense. 

 

You can heighten what exists, but you cannot teach it from nothing. 

 

No matter what Andy Dalton does, or how he trains, he will never be able to throw the ball with the velocity that Josh Allen can. That’s just how the world works. 

 

Allens physical ceiling is higher. If you subjected Josh Allen and Andy Dalton to the same exact regime, at the end of it Allen would run faster, jump higher, and throw the ball faster/stronger/further. That’s how athletic aptitude works. 

 

Raw athletic gifting has little value uneless properly channeled and used,  but that’s the very point of my argument- Allen has more raw athletic talent than many other QB’s to ever step on a field.

Edited by whatdrought

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13 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

John Elway and Randall Cunningham come to mind.

 

Physical intangibles is an oxymoron.

 

 

Lol. Yep. My bad. 😛 

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On 5/31/2019 at 11:43 AM, whatdrought said:

Honest question... when looking at the whole person, athletically speaking, is Josh the best physical specimen to ever play QB? (I’m not homer-ing, just honestly wondering)

 

Obviously he has his faults, and hopefully he fixes those issues, but has there ever been someone with the combination of altheticism and arm strength that he has? 

 

I feel like if you were building a QB entirely based on physical intangibles, he would be the mold.

I think he is.  Great arm strength, compared to the very best.  Great size, compared to the very best.  Great speed, compared to the very best.  

 

Maybe the best total package, purely physically, ever. 

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4 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

You can heighten what exists, but you cannot teach it from nothing. 

 

No matter what Andy Dalton does, or how he trains, he will never be able to throw the ball with the velocity that Josh Allen can. That’s just how the world works. 

 

Allens physical ceiling is higher. If you subjected Josh Allen and Andy Dalton to the same exact regime, at the end of it Allen would run faster, jump higher, and throw the ball faster/stronger/further. That’s how athletic aptitude works. 

 

Raw athletic gifting has little value uneless properly channeled and used,  but that’s the very point of my argument- Allen has more raw athletic talent than many other QB’s to ever step on a field.

 

Again, i disagree. 

 

If the Cincinnati Bengals had wanted to develop him the way that the Packers developed Rodgers, I’m fairly certain he would have developed into a cannon armed QB. 

 

Again, Rodgers was not “gifted” the way that Allen was, yet he still possesses the same kind of arm talent. 

 

Some require less work than others. And some, with the right kind of work, can. 

 

I don’t know. Maybe we are splitting hairs, I’ve just seen people develop strength and speed and turn into athletic animals with nothing compared what NFL players have at their disposal. I agree with the premise that some have stuff that can’t be taught. But the idea that people can’t be taught speed or strength or throwing velocity is just incorrect. You only need to look at any pitcher that is recovered from Tommy John surgery. They literally have to teach themselves how to throw again, with accuracy and velocity.

 

I love Josh Allen. I agree that he is a generational sort of athletic talent at the position, but by his own admission, he worked at it. He was taught how to be better and turn his raw gifts into something special. Don’t discount hard work and the results you get from it. 

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2 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

 

Again, i disagree. 

 

If the Cincinnati Bengals had wanted to develop him the way that the Packers developed Rodgers, I’m fairly certain he would have developed into a cannon armed QB. 

 

Again, Rodgers was not “gifted” the way that Allen was, yet he still possesses the same kind of arm talent. 

 

Some require less work than others. And some, with the right kind of work, can. 

 

I don’t know. Maybe we are splitting hairs, I’ve just seen people develop strength and speed and turn into athletic animals with nothing compared what NFL players have at their disposal. I agree with the premise that some have stuff that can’t be taught. But the idea that people can’t be taught speed or strength or throwing velocity is just incorrect. You only need to look at any pitcher that is recovered from Tommy John surgery. They literally have to teach themselves how to throw again, with accuracy and velocity.

 

I love Josh Allen. I agree that he is a generational sort of athletic talent at the position, but by his own admission, he worked at it. He was taught how to be better and turn his raw gifts into something special. Don’t discount hard work and the results you get from it. 

 

You just agreed to my entire argument. 

 

They have different ceilings. If Rodgers developed a cannon arm that he didn't have in college it was because he had the potential to do that... Not everyone has that potential and not everyone has the same level of potential. My entire argument is that Allen has more potential than most other QB's do... 

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18 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

You just agreed to my entire argument. 

 

They have different ceilings. If Rodgers developed a cannon arm that he didn't have in college it was because he had the potential to do that... Not everyone has that potential and not everyone has the same level of potential. My entire argument is that Allen has more potential than most other QB's do... 

 

I agreed with the premise, not with the point you are trying to make. 

 

Ive said my peace, i think we can agree to disagree on this. 

 

Go Bills

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Posted (edited)

Great Interview.

 

I am so happy the Bills decided to hire Josh a proper QB coach this year.  I never understood why they did what they did last year. It was a disservice to Josh.  

Edited by Peter

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Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2019 at 6:51 AM, Chandler#81 said:

This actually gave me a ‘wtf?’ response. Dorsey not caring how a QB sets up to pass -and doing it the same way every time, speaks volumes to his NFL career -which was nothing. Every single aspect of a QB is studied to the nth degree, looking for a tip to the play. If he throws a quick hitch left better by having his left foot back in the gun, but switches it for a screen to the right, everybody in the League knows it by next week. Josh alluded to this somewhat with Chris Simms -how he ended up being too ‘open’ in his stance to be consistently accurate throwing quick outs. That was DA showing him that. A QB has to stick to only one way every time. If he can’t make decent throws to the other side, Practice, Practice, Practice. Anything else is a tip off and unacceptable. 

You are misunderstanding what he said in the interview. He's saying Josh went from always starting with his left foot forward to always starting with his right foot forward. He's not saying he changes it with whatever pass play is called. 

 

Elsewhere in the interview Dorsey talks about how it does not help Allen to do many reps of something if he is doing it wrong--he will just lean bad habits. So he needs to get his mechanics right and consistent from one play to the next as the foundation for everything else he needs to learn.

Edited by Dr. K
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On 6/1/2019 at 12:57 AM, North Buffalo said:

Cunningham was an unconventional freak... Overall athlete I think he compares best to Elway in his ability to scramble, arm strength and pure physical strength.  Elway's biggest problem was as a former baseball player he left cross hairs early on in his  receivers chest... but he developed touch and became a great QB... Joe Ferguson had that kind of arm strength from what I remember as a rookie and Archie Manning had a big arm.  Guys with touch but not as much athletic ability were Fouts and Marino... Jim Kelly had an underrated arm and though not much of a  runner, was a pretty good athlete as well... played Linebacker in high school and never forget one of his hits I think on Bubba McDowell after he threw an interception.  

Dont forget randall's got the NFL record for best punt that ever was, and ever will be.  The dude kicked it from the back of the endzone to the opponents SIX yard line.  Unreal.

 

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