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Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20 Next game: Thurs. Nov. 14th at 7pm vs Carolina

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14 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/granato-there-s-no-limit-to-eichel-s-potential~1727585

 

“Sabres assistant coach Don Granato joins OverDrive to chat about Buffalo’s outlook for next season, and what it was like to coach Auston Matthews in the US developmental program.”

 

heres the whole interview -

 

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/don-granato-on-the-teamsnap-coaches-conference-auston-matthews-his-hopes-for-the-sabres-this-season-1.1336177

Both of these links showed how thoughtful Granato is as a coach and his approach to the game as an instructor. For Krueger as exemplified by this coaching hire the approach is not just about individual talent development as it is about team building. There is a depth and interconnectedness about how this staff wants to put together a team. 

 

When Granato was talking about how special Mathews and Eichel are as players I thought of Nylander. Nylander may not be as explosive as these players but his skill set is elite. He will never attain a level of success as a player to match his hockey talent because he simply doesn't have the burning desire and commitment to the game that Matthews and Eichel have. I would love to be wrong but what you see when watching him is evident. 

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Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

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14 minutes ago, GG said:

Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

so i have no clue sometimes on how hockey works..

 

but my understanding is he can still be waived, and if claimed new team eats the cap 

if unclaimed, send him to Rochester , Sabres still eat the cap

Hopefully, this is the plan with Sobotka..instead of buying him out eat the cap hit while you have the space..but his ass better be playing either in Rochester or on loan to some ECL team..anywhere but taking meaning shifts in Buffalo

 

this cant work if player a a NM clause, but it is what we did with Matty Mo no?

 

Cap space not a huge issue i am guessing even in a trade scenario..cause most likely any trade involves Risto and his cap number being shipped out. So why not keep guys like this and have the flexibility and possible trade fodder like Sobotka was last year.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

so i have no clue sometimes on how hockey works..

 

but my understanding is he can still be waived, and if claimed new team eats the cap 

if unclaimed, send him to Rochester , Sabres still eat the cap

Hopefully, this is the plan with Sobotka..instead of buying him out eat the cap hit while you have the space..but his ass better be playing either in Rochester or on loan to some ECL team..anywhere but taking meaning shifts in Buffalo

 

this cant work if player a a NM clause, but it is what we did with Matty Mo no?

 

Cap space not a huge issue i am guessing even in a trade scenario..cause most likely any trade involves Risto and his cap number being shipped out. So why not keep guys like this and have the flexibility and possible trade fodder like Sobotka was last year.

 

 

But, but, but who else is gonna take key defensive faceoffs from the left dot?

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1 hour ago, GG said:

Larsson signs $1.55 million one-year extension - 4th line is solidified.   This makes it nearly certain that one or two RHD will be moved soon.

What does solidifying our fourth line have to doe with trading any of our d-men? I do agree with you that either Risto or McCabe or maybe even both are likely to be traded. But if the organization decides to stay pat with the bulging unit because the team will have both Pilut and Bogo on the shelf when the season starts then that isn't a bad situation to be in. As it stands our blue line unit as it is currently constituted is very good with Dahlin/Montour on the first pairing, Risto/McCabe on the second pairing and then Miller/Scandella/Bogo/Pilut making up the third and fourth pairing with some shuffling. That's not a bad unit. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What does solidifying our fourth line have to doe with trading any of our d-men? I do agree with you that either Risto or McCabe or maybe even both are likely to be traded. But if the organization decides to stay pat with the bulging unit because the team will have both Pilut and Bogo on the shelf when the season starts then that isn't a bad situation to be in. As it stands our blue line unit as it is currently constituted is very good with Dahlin/Montour on the first pairing, Risto/McCabe on the second pairing and then Miller/Scandella/Bogo/Pilut making up the third and fourth pairing with some shuffling. That's not a bad unit. 

 

The capologists are saying that.  There’s no room to fit all the RFAs who filed arbitration - Linus, ERod, and McCabe.  Someone has to go now.

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1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The capologists are saying that.  There’s no room to fit all the RFAs who filed arbitration - Linus, ERod, and McCabe.  Someone has to go now.

From a cap standpoint I understand your point. But if you look at all our RFAs none of them are considered costly especially considering the playing time they accrue. Other than maybe McCabe who is going to put stress on our cap? It seems to me that if a d-man is dealt it will be more due to having an excess in one area and having a need in another. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

From a cap standpoint I understand your point. But if you look at all our RFAs none of them are considered costly especially considering the playing time they accrue. Other than maybe McCabe who is going to put stress on our cap? It seems to me that if a d-man is dealt it will be more due to having an excess in one area and having a need in another. 

 

Nothing but pure math at this point.  The nuts at Sabrespace laid it out.  Sabres have $3.1 million in cap space, which isn’t enough to keep all 3 RFAs in arbitration.  

 

It’s even more clear now that the D surplus is temporary.

Edited by GG
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3 hours ago, GG said:

 

Nothing but pure math at this point.  The nuts at Sabrespace laid it out.  Sabres have $3.1 million in cap space, which isn’t enough to keep all 3 RFAs in arbitration.  

 

It’s even more clear now that the D surplus is temporary.

 

Could trade Girgensons. He’s making about the same as Larsson at this point and they probably don’t need both of them to C the 4th line. 

And he’s fairly useful as trade bait.

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Pretty good read -

 

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Growing-trend-in-how-Pittsburgh-and-Buffalo-are-building-their-defense/177/100456

Growing trend in how Pittsburgh and Buffalo are building their defense

 

Quote

Yesterday the Buffalo Sabres made another move to try and improve their blue line. They acquired 20 year old Henri Jokiharju in exchange for Alex Nylander. It is the latest in a string of moves to try and revamp a group that struggled to move the puck and create offense. Jokiharju joins Colin Miller and Brandon Montour as recent additions to the right side of Buffalo's back end. These moves open the door for a Rasmus Ristolainen trade which has great potential for Buffalo. There are many teams who will perceive Ristolainen’s value to be higher than it is.  

When Jason Botterill was hired by the Sabres they had one of the worst blue lines in the entire league. The group included Rasmus Ristolainen, Zach Bogosian, Josh Gorges, Justin Falk (no not that one), Taylor Fedun, Dmitry Kulikov, Cody Franson, and Jake McCabe.  

The recent moves by the Sabres got me thinking about the shift in the kinds of defenseman the Penguins used to target versus the kind that they currently target. Buffalo seems to be focusing on puck movers and offense while the Penguins have shifted towards a push back mentality in recent years. Right now the Penguins defense is their greatest weakness.

There are three different time periods I decided to look at with the Penguins and the kinds of additions they made on defense via signings and trade. The first time period was June 6, 2014 to May 10, 2017. This was the time both Jim Rutherford and Jason Botterill worked together......


 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Pretty good read -

 

11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Pretty good read -

 

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Growing-trend-in-how-Pittsburgh-and-Buffalo-are-building-their-defense/177/100456

Growing trend in how Pittsburgh and Buffalo are building their defense

 

 

 

Growing trend in how Pittsburgh and Buffalo are building their defense

 

 

 

Odds are that either Risto or McCabe or both could be traded for second line help. But if the GM decided to keep both defensemen because the return on each player wasn't satisfactory that wouldn't necessarily be bad a outcome. The top two pairings could be Dahlin/Montour and McCabe/Risto. The third and fourth pairings could be made up from some combination of Pilut, Miller, Jokiharju and Bogo. Overall, that would be quite a strong and deep unit. The benefit of having depth on a unit is that you have options. 

 

 

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Not that long ago I was listening to WGR and one of the hosts was talking about what a prospective Risto trade could get you. The host was proposing a straight up trade with Tampa for Anthony Cirelli. The host felt that the young center was on a steady upward trajectory as a very good second line center. For those who are far more knowledgeable about players in the league what say you? (I believe he may have a no trade clause so if that is so it might be a complication.)

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Not that long ago I was listening to WGR and one of the hosts was talking about what a prospective Risto trade could get you. The host was proposing a straight up trade with Tampa for Anthony Cirelli. The host felt that the young center was on a steady upward trajectory as a very good second line center. For those who are far more knowledgeable about players in the league what say you? (I believe he may have a no trade clause so if that is so it might be a complication.)

That's not a great return.  Cirelli is a nice player but he's been a 3rd line center and doesn't appear to be ready to contribute at a high level offensively.   Good skater and defender.  His ceiling is supposedly Patrice Bergeron light (my current favorite NHLer), so that would be great and his cap hit would save the Sabres almost $5m but we'd have to get much more to make the deal. 

 

He's on his ELC, so I doubt he has a NMC.

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2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That's not a great return.  Cirelli is a nice player but he's been a 3rd line center and doesn't appear to be ready to contribute at a high level offensively.   Good skater and defender.  His ceiling is supposedly Patrice Bergeron light (my current favorite NHLer), so that would be great and his cap hit would save the Sabres almost $5m but we'd have to get much more to make the deal. 

 

He's on his ELC, so I doubt he has a NMC.

Thanks for the opinion. It seems to me that a third line center on a very good team would fit in with being a second line center for the Sabres. The person who was commenting about him stated that his stats have steadily improved showing an upward trajectory for the young player. My sense is that the GM is wants to trade Risto but won't take the plunge unless there is a good return. The ROR deal haunts him and should spook him from making another precipitous move. The McCabe issue of should he stay or go is another interesting issue that will have to be addressed. If the GM stays pat the pairing of McCabe with Risto makes for an interesting combo. 

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Thanks for the opinion. It seems to me that a third line center on a very good team would fit in with being a second line center for the Sabres. The person who was commenting about him stated that his stats have steadily improved showing an upward trajectory for the young player. My sense is that the GM  wants to trade Risto but won't take the plunge unless there is a good return. The ROR deal haunts him and should spook him from making another precipitous move. The McCabe issue of should he stay or go is another interesting issue that will have to be addressed. If the GM stays pat the pairing of McCabe with Risto makes for an interesting combo. 

 

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16 hours ago, JohnC said:

Thanks for the opinion. It seems to me that a third line center on a very good team would fit in with being a second line center for the Sabres. The person who was commenting about him stated that his stats have steadily improved showing an upward trajectory for the young player. My sense is that the GM is wants to trade Risto but won't take the plunge unless there is a good return. The ROR deal haunts him and should spook him from making another precipitous move. The McCabe issue of should he stay or go is another interesting issue that will have to be addressed. If the GM stays pat the pairing of McCabe with Risto makes for an interesting combo. 

 

I agree with with the perspective that Cirelli is a 2/3 center type.  At this moment,  he's simply not enough to trade Risto straight up for.   It'd would have to be something like Cirelli, a top prospect, and a first.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

I agree with with the perspective that Cirelli is a 2/3 center type.  At this moment,  he's simply not enough to trade Risto straight up for.   It'd would have to be something like Cirelli, a top prospect, and a first.

I have openly stated that on the Risto trade I go back and forth. Is he a physical talent that needs better coaching to maximize his performance or is he a player whose physical talents will tantalize you but his play will be undercut by his lack of cerebral play? I just don't know? 

 

There is another aspect to a proposed trade that goes beyond matching talent for talent. Can a trade of a bigger talent for a lesser talent still upgrade your team because it better balances out your roster? Is it smart to shed some excess talent on a defensive unit to improve an area where you have a major deficit on the second line, especially at center. 

 

My sense (guess) is that the GM is going to trade Risto. He is biding his time and is willing to wait. He rushed in the ROR episode and it turned out disastrously. Not because he traded him but because he rushed to do it and hurt his leverage. 

 

The Risto and even possible McCabe trade possibilities are intriguing. This offseason has been productive and there is still more to come. 

Edited by JohnC
editing

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How about Risto to Edmonton straight up for Nugent-Hopkins? I’d do that. 

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8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

How about Risto to Edmonton straight up for Nugent-Hopkins? I’d do that. 

I think I would too.

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29 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

I think I would too.

What happened to Puljujarvi? Was he rushed and ruined? 

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What happened to Puljujarvi? Was he rushed and ruined? 

Multiple failures: 

1.  OVERDRAFTED

2.  Rushed to North America

3.  Didn't speak English

4.  Rushed to the NHL

5.  Ken Hitchcock

6.  Injuries

 

I'd take him if the asking price was low because it feels a bit " Strome-ish" to me.

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49 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Multiple failures: 

1.  OVERDRAFTED

2.  Rushed to North America

3.  Didn't speak English

4.  Rushed to the NHL

5.  Ken Hitchcock

6.  Injuries

 

I'd take him if the asking price was low because it feels a bit " Strome-ish" to me.

Although it is not an unusual occurrence missing on a highly drafted player is a painful setback. At least with Nylander we were able to get a decent return on him. 

 

Our GM is fully committed to the development process without seeking to short-circuit the process. That is one of the reasons that I like him. I thought he was really smart in keeping Chris Taylor who was good with working with the younger players in Rochester. 

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

What happened to Puljujarvi? Was he rushed and ruined? 

 

4th pick overall , would be ok for Amerks to develop. 

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3 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

I agree with with the perspective that Cirelli is a 2/3 center type.  At this moment,  he's simply not enough to trade Risto straight up for.   It'd would have to be something like Cirelli, a top prospect, and a first.

 

Eh, I get what your saying because he’s only played 1 full season and part of another (this last season was considered his rookie year). But I’d be pretty damn happy with Cirell straight up for Risto. I am a big Cirelli fan though. 

 

He scored 19 goals last season with heavy defensive zone starts and no power play time. He was used as their 2 way shutdown C who faced a lot of the other team’s top competition and was depended on in a lot of late game situations. If Tampa had the lead late in a game, Cirelli was usually out there. 

 

He was also very good in the face off circle, which is something we need. 

all of his advanced stats look good too and it doesn’t appear that he was sheltered looking at QoC and matchups etc. 

 

 

He was already getting Selke votes last season (his first full NHL season). He finished 11th in selke voting (ROR placed 11th in selke voting a couple times before finally winning it this year) and he finished 6th in Calder voting. 

 

He’s only 21 and still on his ELC as well. He would be a perfect fit in Buffalo. He could be our #2 C this year and eventually slide into the #3C role if Mittelstadt or Cozens ever surpass him as the 2C. We would have elite center depth if either player ever passed Cirelli as the 2C, as he was already probably about the best 3C in the NHL last season (his rookie season) or damn close. 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don’t see Tampa trading him anyway. John Cooper LOVES him and uses him in a ton of key situations. Plus He’s still on his entry level contract. They need cost controlled players desperately with Point due for a raise this year and Vasilevski due next year. They have a bunch of guys with NMC too, which will make clearing our cap space harder. 

 

If they did trade him for Risto, I can’t see any scenario where they add a top prospect and a 1st, though. Maybe a pick if we were lucky. But not a prospect on top of that.

 

 

I think they’d probably rather trade someone like Tyler Johnson because it would clear cap space. But he has a no trade clause. 

 

Id take Johnson though. He could be our 2C and is signed to a very reasonable $5M cap hit for 5 more years. The only issue is that he will be 29yrs old before the start of the season. His contract ends at age 33 so that’s not the issue. IMO the issue is that he probably doesn’t fit our long term rebuild window as well as Risto does. But he’d bring some much needed experience and leadership to the team. You can’t ice a entire roster of young guys (well, you can but it’s probably not going to be too successful as we’ve already seen). 

I would want a pick or prospect included with Johnson though (due to his age). 

10 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

4th pick overall , would be ok for Amerks to develop. 

He’s no longer waiver exempt. So it’s pretty much NHL or bust for Puljujarvi. 

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7 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

I agree with with the perspective that Cirelli is a 2/3 center type.  At this moment,  he's simply not enough to trade Risto straight up for.   It'd would have to be something like Cirelli, a top prospect, and a first.

 

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Eh, I get what your saying because he’s only played 1 full season and part of another (this last season was considered his rookie year). But I’d be pretty damn happy with Cirell straight up for Risto. I am a big Cirelli fan though. 

 

He scored 19 goals last season with heavy defensive zone starts and no power play time. He was used as their 2 way shutdown C who faced a lot of the other team’s top competition and was depended on in a lot of late game situations. If Tampa had the lead late in a game, Cirelli was usually out there. 

 

He was also very good in the face off circle, which is something we need. 

all of his advanced stats look good too and it doesn’t appear that he was sheltered looking at QoC and matchups etc. 

 

 

He was already getting Selke votes last season (his first full NHL season). He finished 11th in selke voting (ROR placed 11th in selke voting a couple times before finally winning it this year) and he finished 6th in Calder voting. 

 

He’s only 21 and still on his ELC as well. He would be a perfect fit in Buffalo. He could be our #2 C this year and eventually slide into the #3C role if Mittelstadt or Cozens ever surpass him as the 2C. We would have elite center depth if either player ever passed Cirelli as the 2C, as he was already probably about the best 3C in the NHL last season (his rookie season) or damn close. 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don’t see Tampa trading him anyway. John Cooper LOVES him and uses him in a ton of key situations. Plus He’s still on his entry level contract. They need cost controlled players desperately with Point due for a raise this year and Vasilevski due next year. They have a bunch of guys with NMC too, which will make clearing our cap space harder. 

 

If they did trade him for Risto, I can’t see any scenario where they add a top prospect and a 1st, though. Maybe a pick if we were lucky. But not a prospect on top of that.

 

 

I think they’d probably rather trade someone like Tyler Johnson because it would clear cap space. But he has a no trade clause. 

 

Id take Johnson though. He could be our 2C and is signed to a very reasonable $5M cap hit for 5 more years. The only issue is that he will be 29yrs old before the start of the season. His contract ends at age 33 so that’s not the issue. IMO the issue is that he probably doesn’t fit our long term rebuild window as well as Risto does. But he’d bring some much needed experience and leadership to the team. You can’t ice a entire roster of young guys (well, you can but it’s probably not going to be too successful as we’ve already seen). 

I would want a pick or prospect included with Johnson though (due to his age). 

He’s no longer waiver exempt. So it’s pretty much NHL or bust for Puljujarvi. 

 

The problem with Johnson is he has an NTC & simply can't see him waiving it to go from the Presidents' Trophy winner to the Sabres.

 

I expect Cirelli would actually be a good piece coming back for Ristolainen, but the Bolts need to shed salary now, not add to it.

 

Cirelli would fit in as the 2C now and could be the 3C if Mittelstadt or Cozens ever reach their potential.  Originally, wasn't too keen on a potential Risto / Cirelli trade, but one of the posters on SabreSpace (Randall Flagg) has been making a convincing case.

 

RNH would be a great trade for Buffalo if Botterill could swing it.  Too bad Chiarelli is no longer the GM there.

 

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5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

RNH would be a great trade for Buffalo if Botterill could swing it.  Too bad Chiarelli is no longer the GM there.

 

We could probably get Nurse and RNH for Risto from Chiarelli.  What a disaster that dude is. 

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