SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Its the newer rules protecting the QB. It’s like he’s resigned him self to going for the strip, because you can barley hit them. Barely would still be a flag for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Barely would still be a flag for him It felt like that in the past.. but he didn’t generate much laundry this past season, I thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Like Hughes a lot. Good player. Glad we have him.... but I have never seen such a cult following of the “pressures” stat than is on this board to somehow spin that Hughes is elite. Sorry. Just can’t get on board with that. Elite guys routinely get home for double digits year in and year out. ..... now cue the predictable remarks about how I just don’t understand the details of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: If he has a similar year this year to last, I think you offer him $36m for three years with $23m or so guaranteed so the team has an option if they bring him back the last year.. I think it would be a more civilised way to treat a guy who has given pretty good service to the team these past number of years.. I'd try and do a two year deal which is really a one year deal (maybe $4-5m guaranteed money on the 2020 cap) that means there is a penalty for the Bills to get out but not an insurmountable one. So $26m over 2 years, including a $9-10m signing bonus spread over the two years. That gives you a cap hit of about $14m fully guaranteed in 2020 and cap hit of about $12m with only $4-5m guaranteed in 2021. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Not sure anyone is saying he is elite.. The “ elite” guys are getting paid $20 mil a year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 39 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: Put someone across from him and he gets the sacks. Hes a stud. That's not the definition of a stud. The stud is the guy you put across from the solid player to draw attention. A stud is a guy like Mack or Miller or watt. Jerry is a B+ player who flashes A+ from time to time. He's not bad by any means. People think that if you say a guy isn't elite you're trashing him. There are player grades between A+ and F. 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: Like Hughes a lot. Good player. Glad we have him.... but I have never seen such a cult following of the “pressures” stat than is on this board to somehow spin that Hughes is elite. Sorry. Just can’t get on board with that. Elite guys routinely get home for double digits year in and year out. ..... now cue the predictable remarks about how I just don’t understand the details of the game. Yep I got told to learn to watch football for saying that he wasn't a dominant player I think those people need to go watch Mack, von Miller, and watt play. 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I'd try and do a two year deal which is really a one year deal (maybe $4-5m guaranteed money on the 2020 cap) that means there is a penalty for the Bills to get out but not an insurmountable one. So $26m over 2 years, including a $9-10m signing bonus spread over the two years. That gives you a cap hit of about $14m fully guaranteed in 2020 and cap hit of about $12m with only $4-5m guaranteed in 2021. Right. Good call. That's what I think he's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I'd try and do a two year deal which is really a one year deal (maybe $4-5m guaranteed money on the 2020 cap) that means there is a penalty for the Bills to get out but not an insurmountable one. So $26m over 2 years, including a $9-10m signing bonus spread over the two years. That gives you a cap hit of about $14m fully guaranteed in 2020 and cap hit of about $12m with only $4-5m guaranteed in 2021. Not sure he takes that deal to be honest.. I think another team offers him my deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, SouthNYfan said: That's not the definition of a stud. The stud is the guy you put across from the solid player to draw attention. A stud is a guy like Mack or Miller or watt. Jerry is a B+ player who flashes A+ from time to time. He's not bad by any means. People think that if you say a guy isn't elite you're trashing him. There are player grades between A+ and F. Yep I got told to learn to watch football for saying that he wasn't a dominant player I think those people need to go watch Mack, von Miller, and watt play. There’s a bottom line here that a certain couple posters in this thread need to realize. The elite guys get home consistently year in and year out. PERIOD. Now I’m just bracing for the “pressure” truthers to gang up on me. That stat seriously has a little cult following around here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Not sure he takes that deal to be honest.. I think another team offers him my deal.. In which case I tag him and let him walk as he hits 33 (if he is productive in 2019). Edited April 7, 2019 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Tell me.. When we had Darius.. whom did give us some good years before he got lazy.. how come sack numbers were not higher then? You mean like ‘13 and ‘14 when he had double digit sack seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 13 hours ago, JerseyBills said: He really is , and very good vs the run and rarely injured . He hasn't had the sacks but just causes havoc in the backfield on a regular basis , with his sneaky cat like quickness . Off the top of my head I recall 3 separate plays where his pressure caused an INT. I gotta feeling they trade up for a DL , give Hughes another great pass rusher and those prrssures turn into more sacks, FF ,TFL and int. He is also the most held player in the league and they barely ever throw the flag for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: There’s a bottom line here that a certain couple posters in this thread need to realize. The elite guys get home consistently year in and year out. PERIOD. Now I’m just bracing for the “pressure” truthers to gang up on me. That stat seriously has a little cult following around here. Can’t argue this point. Good QBs handle pressure, therefore a pressure is more of a means to an end. Sacks are a result... pressures are disruptive but may or may not influence the play. Bruce isn’t in canton for pressure (even if they didnt measure it back then) Edited April 7, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Can’t argue this point. Good QBs handle pressure, therefore a pressure is more of a means to an end. Sacks are a result... pressure are disruptive and may or may not influence the play. Bruce isn’t in canton for pressure (even if they did measure it back then) Really good post right here. Especially the bolded. Ive just never seen fans cling to such a stat(pressures) for a player for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: ? you, & south ny fan ftm, conflict your positions in your own posts.(??) Hughes universally lines up over the LT, which by definition shouldn’t require double team help. Jerry routinely gets past them all. ‘Pressure from the other side has always helped the ‘great player’. With Bruce, we had the fastest OLB at the time in Biscuit cruising in from the other side and later, Phil Hanson. Currently, Jerry doesn’t have this. The double digit sacks you claim are requirements for greatness, came for Jerry with Pro Bowlers with 10+ sacks each across the DL. Here’s all you need to know about Jerry Hughes; if we can’t extend him, we’ll lose him. Because EVERY team will look into signing him with their very best offer$. Nobody is going to offer Hughes elite pass rusher money. Hughes will get paid for sure, but he'll be making 2nd tier pass rusher money. Hughes has never made a pro bowl. Never been all pro. Never gotten more than 10 sacks, even with three other pro bowlers lining up with him. He's a good player, good pass rusher for sure, but he is not elite. I hope we keep him, by the way, but he isn't going to ever be a force that breaks game plans or can't be stopped. But don't think I don't like him. I do like him. I thought he was essential to resign back when his contract was up last time. He's a good player. So I respectfully disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I am a big fan of Hughes but he is going to be 32 in 2020. This is more of a wait and see type signing for me, if Hughes has a 8 sack season and gets solid pressure numbers I would give him a 2 year 20 million deal that has a lot of guaranteed money and bonuses. This confirms to me that we are taking a pass rusher at 9 or trading up for one. We really have nothing outside of Hughes who has maybe 2 years left. If it comes down to Jonah Williams or Burns I will be completely torn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 12 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: One statistic does not equate dominance. Let's see some other supporting statistics such as number of snaps played, % of snaps pressure generated, number of double teams faced, etc. I don't think any GM in the league would choose Jerry over any of the other guys on those charts. It was my, not mjs. Jerry isn't dominant. Jerry is a solid to good player. As I said before earlier in this post, one stat doesn't equate dominance. Hughes wat the best front-seven player on a defense that finished second overall in the NFL in defensive DVOA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: Really good post right here. Especially the bolded. Ive just never seen fans cling to such a stat(pressures) for a player for so many years. Here's a stat that I like: Tackles for loss. These are single season leaders from 1999-2018. Mario Williams, Kyle Williams and Aaron Schobel are the only Bills that appear on the list. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/tackles_loss_single_season.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: Here's a stat that I like: Tackles for loss. These are single season leaders from 1999-2018. Mario Williams, Kyle Williams and Aaron Schobel are the only Bills that appear on the list. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/tackles_loss_single_season.htm I have a hard time wrapping my head around watts 39 in 2012. Thats freaking madness 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, Stank_Nasty said: I have a hard time wrapping my head around watts 39 in 2012. Thats freaking madness Pressures matter more, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Hughes wat the best front-seven player on a defense that finished second overall in the NFL in defensive DVOA. So what you're saying is he actually had a bunch of help and still didn't get the sacks?? 5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I have a hard time wrapping my head around watts 39 in 2012. Thats freaking madness Elite. 4 minutes ago, Gugny said: Pressures matter more, though. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. ...and on this forum apparently ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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