I believe the competitive landscape in NFL is about to change dramatically

[c-troop]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Yeah, the AFC QB picture looks pretty stacked for the next two decades:

Patrick Mahomes
Baker Mayfield
Andrew Luck
Deshaun Watson
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson (who I think will end up flaming out, but we'll see).
Kyler Murray?

Don't sleep on that big boy down in Tampa either

[Bing Bong]

I feel the same way. A changing of the guard will make the NFL much less predictable. Should be fun to watch this play out.

 

It's really just the glut of HOF QBs drafted in such a small window all aging and the league preparing to bounce them out with this new batch of QBs. Similar to all the mid 80s Quarterbacks that dominated the NFL their whole careers.

 

Hopefully we'll have our own HOF QB amongst the new batch!

[RocCityRoller]

8 hours ago, DasNootz said:

I still expect a big signing to come.  The Bills, Jets and Browns all see that there is a huge window right now to jump from the outhouse to the penthouse.  This is where you push your chips in for better or worse. 

 

I think the Bills are one year away. Another 9-7 campaign with Brady a year older is the bonanza.

 

Some of the FA will pan out and some of the draft will.

Next yr will be different. Didn't overspend, ready for the kill shot.

Edited March 14, 2019 by RocCityRoller

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, c-troop said:

Don't sleep on that big boy down in Tampa either

[mjt328]

14 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

While this was an exciting free agency period, nothing has changed yet. 

The top teams are still the top teams. 

It has the look of some “losing” teams possibly changing the culture but until the games are played it don’t mean much.

I hope to see some changing of the guard this season but I’m not holding my breath 

 

Logic says this changeover should have happened a few years ago.

 

The Patriots have defied the odds by remaining competitive for a half-decade longer than they should have.

The Bills/Browns/Jets/etc. have defied the odds by not being competitive for roughly the same period of time.

 

It's finally going to happen at some point.  Signs are pointing to it being sooner, rather than later.

At least we can only hope...

 

[badassgixxer05]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

?, the best part of this was Desean's face...

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

?, the best part of this was Desean's face...

 

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone but Tampa fans have to worry about Rapeis Winston...

[c-troop]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone but Tampa fans have to worry about Rapeis Winston...

I mean you can FEEL however you want, but he put up 4000 yrds in his rookie and sophmore campaign and scored almost as many touchdowns last year as he did in his rookie season in like half the games.

For instance, Mahomes had 580 Attempts for 66% and Winston was 378 Attempts for 64%.

I guess that's not as important as social issues though so forget I mentioned it. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, c-troop said:

I mean you can FEEL however you want, but he put up 4000 yrds in his rookie and sophmore campaign and scored almost as many touchdowns last year as he did in his rookie season in like half the games.

For instance, Mahomes had 580 Attempts for 66% and Winston was 378 Attempts for 64%.

I guess that's not as important as social issues though so forget I mentioned it. 

 

Nah.  I wouldn't fear a guy who is pushing out 20 +/- TDs and 15+/- INTs a year (he's "almost" back to his rookie total of 22 TDs!!!) .  He's won 6 games in the last 2 years. 

 

"For instance", Fitzmagic's stat line was better than Winston's last year.

[c-troop]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Nah.  I wouldn't fear a guy who is pushing out 20 +/- TDs and 15+/- INTs a year (he's "almost" back to his rookie total of 22 TDs!!!) .  He's won 6 games in the last 2 years. 

 

"For instance", Fitzmagic's stat line was better than Winston's last year.

Are you just unaware he was not allowed to play for the first half of the season and still put up more yards than Josh Allen? or did you miss that part that? 

Did you miss Fitzy shocking the nation, like people were genuinely surprised he was playing better than almost every QB in the league and he was virtually unfadable in any DFS or DraftKings scenario for like the first 6 weeks?

Winston's INTS were high, but he'll be back strong with confidence that he's the Alpha QB and will get training camp to mesh with his team 

Dude the last Bills QB to throw over 4000+ yards was Drew Bledsoe... I'm not squabbling with you over this. 

[Chuck Wagon]

We are in year 5 of the Pats / Saints / Steelers / Packers / Chargers having QB changes "soon".

[TheFunPolice]

An important part of this is Brady playing a couple more years so these new powers in the AFC east have some wins over Brady and Belichick under their belts.

 

Therefore, no "well you only won once Brady retired" caveats to their success.

 

 

[ExWNYer]

17 hours ago, Success said:

No one wants to say it, but this is the deal - Bills and Jets will be fighting for the AFCE for the next  decade+.

 

Pats are toast.

 

I'll believe it when they drive a wooden stake thru the cold, black hearts of Brady, Belichick, & Kraft and pry the Lombardi trophies from their cold, dead hands...or from the massage parlor or wherever the hell they are storing them.

[mannc]

17 hours ago, Success said:

No one wants to say it, but this is the deal - Bills and Jets will be fighting for the AFCE for the next  decade+.

 

Pats are toast.

As long as Belichick is still there, the Pats will be far from toast.  

[TheFunPolice]

Good!

 

So all the wins KC, Cleveland, Indy and Buffalo are going to start racking up vs NE will represent the "passing of the torch"

 

 

[Chugga]

17 hours ago, Success said:

No one wants to say it, but this is the deal - Bills and Jets will be fighting for the AFCE for the next  decade+.

 

Pats are toast.

 

I don't know about that.  As long as Belicheck is still coach I don't see the Patriots just disappearing when Brady retires.  If Brady retired tomorrow I still put the Pats as the odds on favorite to win the AFC East this year with whoever they decide to put behind center.

 

The Brady-less Pats are BEATABLE.  But they aren't a basement dweller.  If anything I'm afraid when Brady retires that Belicheck goes into overdrive just to try to win one without Brady and prove he was the reason for their success.

 

Now when Brady and Belicheck both retire and the keys are left to McDaniels....that will be exciting.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Chugga said:

 

I don't know about that.  As long as Belicheck is still coach I don't see the Patriots just disappearing when Brady retires.  If Brady retired tomorrow I still put the Pats as the odds on favorite to win the AFC East this year with whoever they decide to put behind center.

 

The Brady-less Pats are BEATABLE.  But they aren't a basement dweller.  If anything I'm afraid when Brady retires that Belicheck goes into overdrive just to try to win one without Brady and prove he was the reason for their success.

 

Now when Brady and Belicheck both retire and the keys are left to McDaniels....that will be exciting.

Agreed.  Coaching matters a lot in the NFL and Belichick is head and shoulders above anyone in the AFC East.  The Pats have already started adapting to life after Brady, with their new emphasis on becoming a dominant running team.  I fear they are going to make the transition to a post-Brady world without much difficulty.

[Mr. WEO]

51 minutes ago, c-troop said:

Are you just unaware he was not allowed to play for the first half of the season and still put up more yards than Josh Allen? or did you miss that part that? 

Did you miss Fitzy shocking the nation, like people were genuinely surprised he was playing better than almost every QB in the league and he was virtually unfadable in any DFS or DraftKings scenario for like the first 6 weeks?

Winston's INTS were high, but he'll be back strong with confidence that he's the Alpha QB and will get training camp to mesh with his team 

Dude the last Bills QB to throw over 4000+ yards was Drew Bledsoe... I'm not squabbling with you over this. 

 

 

I did not miss that.  Dude, in fact i pointed it out in my response--like when I said Winston the alpha male was outperformed by the journeyman QB.

 

Why you are bringing the Bills QBs into the discussion of Winston is beside the point.  But since you did, I will also point out that the Bills won more games with rookie QB Allen than the Bucs did with their strong, confident alpha male veteran QB in 2018. 

 

Further, the combo of Allen and Matt Barkley won as many games in 2018 as the "W Eater" consumed for Tampa Bay in the past TWO years. 

 

Want a little more?  Tyrod Taylor had more wins as starter for the Bills in 3 years than the Crab Leg Pilferer has had in his entire 4 year career in Tampa.

 

Lay down, dude. 

[c-troop]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I did not miss that.  Dude, in fact i pointed it out in my response--like when I said Winston the alpha male was outperformed by the journeyman QB.

 

Why you are bringing the Bills QBs into the discussion of Winston is beside the point.  But since you did, I will also point out that the Bills won more games with rookie QB Allen than the Bucs did with their strong, confident alpha male veteran QB in 2018. 

 

Further, the combo of Allen and Matt Barkley won as many games in 2018 as the "W Eater" consumed for Tampa Bay in the past TWO years. 

 

Want a little more?  Tyrod Taylor had more wins as starter for the Bills in 3 years than the Crab Leg Pilferer has had in his entire 4 year career in Tampa.

 

Lay down, dude. 

because if you are going to include Josh Allen as part of the NFL's changing scenery and not include Jameis you have a crack pipe in your hand

fitzpatrick has never even posted a 4000+ yard season and Winston has posted two? you couldn't be more wrong my fellow Bills fan.

and yeah let's pretend Allen and Barkley were the reasons we were winning and not the defence which is non-existent in Tampa

and to top it off you can tell your posting in a Bills forum when regular season wins count as a benchmark of success.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by c-troop

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, c-troop said:

because if you are going to include josh allen as part of the changing scenery and not include jameis you have a crack pipe in your hand

fitzpatrick has never even posted a 4000+ yard season and winston has posted two? you couldn't be more wrong my fellow Bills fan.

 

 

So what?  They guy has 21 wins over 4 years.  Wisnton had 4000 yards 3 seasons ago.  He was injured the next year on and off then he again assaulted a woman in a car and "was not allowed to play", as you euphemistically put it, for 3 games. 

 

They've gone no where since that team drafted him.  But hey...3 years ago he threw for 4000 yards!!  He might throw for 5000 yards this season, and still only 24 TDs, 20 INTs and what, rack up 5 wins?  7? 

 

Winston starting again for Tampa is not part of any "changing scenery".  Just more of the same for them.

[c-troop]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So what?  They guy has 21 wins over 4 years.  Wisnton had 4000 yards 3 seasons ago.  He was injured the next year on and off then he again assaulted a woman in a car and "was not allowed to play", as you euphemistically put it, for 3 games. 

 

They've gone no where since that team drafted him.  But hey...3 years ago he threw for 4000 yards!!  He might throw for 5000 yards this season, and still only 24 TDs, 20 INTs and what, rack up 5 wins?  7? 

 

Winston starting again for Tampa is not part of any "changing scenery".  Just more of the same for them.

1. you are exaggerating. Jameis has never thrown 20 INT's in a season. Peyton Manning has though. Actually, Peyton was worse in the INT department in his first 4 years than Jameis.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jameis+Winston&player_id1_select=Jameis+Winston&fromyear_1=2015&toyear_1=2018&player_id1=WinsJa00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Peyton+Manning&player_id2_select=Peyton+Manning&fromyear_2=1998&toyear_2=2001&player_id2=MannPe00&idx=players

one thing you will notice is Jameis gets sacked... a lot. 

2. what would it matter if he threw for 5000 yards and put up 50 TD's if they have no defence? You expect him to win 16 straight shoot-outs against teams with actual defences?

3. on what planet do regular season wins out weight QB rating, completion percentage yards and TD's?

4. Lastly, I can see you have a bigger problem with his personality than his performance and have decided to put him under a microscope because of it, that's fine.

Edited March 14, 2019 by c-troop

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, c-troop said:

1. you are exaggerating. Jameis has never thrown 20 INT's in a season. Peyton Manning has though. Actually, Peyton was worse in his first 4 years than Jameis.

2. what would it matter if he threw for 5000 yards and put up 50 TD's if they have no defence? You expect him to win 16 straight shoot-outs against teams with actual defences?

3. on what planet do regular season wins out weight QB rating, completion percentage yards and TD's?

4. Lastly, I can see you have a bigger problem with his personality than his performance and have decided to put him under a microscope because of it, that's fine.

 

1.  If Winston had any actual similarity in team or productivity success to Manning, fans in Tampa would be overjoyed. 

 

2.  yes, bad defenses hurt all teams.  In 3 of his last 4 losses this year, the Bucs scored 14, 12 and 20 points (opponents averaged 25)  Not much of a shootout.

 

3.  the planet you are asking about is called "Earth".  It's where the NFL is located.  In the NFL, QBs, ultimately, are judged by the success they bring to their teams---and where having 2 "4000 yard seasons" in a 4 year career doesn't amount to much anymore.  But you're right, in Drew Bledsoe's day, it would have been something special.

 

4.  you're wrong yet again.  My opinion on Winston, pretty clearly stated now in several posts to you, is that bigger problem is with his performance.

 

keep digging, you're almost completely covered up

[c-troop]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

1.  If Winston had any actual similarity in team or productivity success to Manning, fans in Tampa would be overjoyed. 

 

2.  yes, bad defenses hurt all teams.  In 3 of his last 4 losses this year, the Bucs scored 14, 12 and 20 points (opponents averaged 25)  Not much of a shootout.

 

3.  the planet you are asking about is called "Earth".  It's where the NFL is located.  In the NFL, QBs, ultimately, are judged by the success they bring to their teams---and where having 2 "4000 yard seasons" in a 4 year career doesn't amount to much anymore.  But you're right, in Drew Bledsoe's day, it would have been something special.

 

4.  you're wrong yet again.  My opinion on Winston, pretty clearly stated now in several posts to you, is that bigger problem is with his performance.

 

keep digging, you're almost completely covered up

You're getting emotional now, and it's not worth debating with someone who refuses to look at the sheer volume of statistics and focuses on the Win/Loss column of one player for a team sport.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jameis+Winston&player_id1_select=Jameis+Winston&fromyear_1=2015&toyear_1=2018&player_id1=WinsJa00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Peyton+Manning&player_id2_select=Peyton+Manning&fromyear_2=1998&toyear_2=2001&player_id2=MannPe00&idx=players

I'll post this here for you again for you to pick apart. If you can't see the value in Jameis Winston as a long term NFL prospect when comparing him with one of the greatest of all time then I don't know what else to say.

This thread was about the changing face of the NFL and I believe Jameis has the same chance if not a better one than most of the QB's posted on page one and two. 

You don't, and it's not my job to convince you.
You can pick up:
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson (who I think will end up flaming out, but we'll see).
Kyler Murray?
for your fantasy league and fade Jameis and go out sad, that's not my problem.

Edited March 14, 2019 by c-troop

[GoBills808]

Jameis Winston is Ryan Tannehill with better receivers. 

[Chugga]

Jameis Winston could change the face of the NFL.  He could set records.  Eating the most W's during a 6 game losing streak

[c-troop]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Jameis Winston is Ryan Tannehill with better receivers. 

True and I guess the real question is are they bad quarterbacks on bad teams or are they good quarterbacks on bad teams?

They both get sacked a ton and their teams struggle to produce wins. 

[ganesh]

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

Knowing our luck, Brady will head to the booth and only do Bills games

He is too smug to join broadcasting!

[TigerJ]

20 hours ago, Logic said:

Yeah, the AFC QB picture looks pretty stacked for the next two decades:

Patrick Mahomes
Baker Mayfield
Andrew Luck
Deshaun Watson
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson (who I think will end up flaming out, but we'll see).
Kyler Murray?

Kyler Murray to the AFC is a long shot at best.  Rosen has a better shot of ending up there.

 

It's wonderful to see a list like that with Tom Brady not on it (nor does he belong on it).

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, c-troop said:

You're getting emotional now, and it's not worth debating with someone who refuses to look at the sheer volume of statistics and focuses on the Win/Loss column of one player for a team sport.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jameis+Winston&player_id1_select=Jameis+Winston&fromyear_1=2015&toyear_1=2018&player_id1=WinsJa00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Peyton+Manning&player_id2_select=Peyton+Manning&fromyear_2=1998&toyear_2=2001&player_id2=MannPe00&idx=players

I'll post this here for you again for you to pick apart. If you can't see the value in Jameis Winston as a long term NFL prospect when comparing him with one of the greatest of all time then I don't know what else to say.

This thread was about the changing face of the NFL and I believe Jameis has the same chance if not a better one than most of the QB's posted on page one and two. 

You don't, and it's not my job to convince you.
You can pick up:
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson (who I think will end up flaming out, but we'll see).
Kyler Murray?
for your fantasy league and fade Jameis and go out sad, that's not my problem.

 

Nice comps.  Despite only tossing for only 1800 more yards, Manning had 26% more TDs and 50% more wins.

 

Fantasy football! So that's what you're about.  Here's a tip--find a league where they only points a QB can earn is with passing yards.  Then maybe Winston would be a semi-solid pick in an under-4500-yard-QB league.

 

8 minutes ago, c-troop said:

True and I guess the real question is are they bad quarterbacks on bad teams or are they good quarterbacks on bad teams?

They both get sacked a ton and their teams struggle to produce wins. 

 

 

Other than that, he's a "dramatic landscape changer"...

 

You more accurately labeled this 5th year starter as a "prospect", although he's getting a little ripe for that designation.  But I would stick to actual prospects like Allen and Darnold right now.  At we don't know yet if they are low impact QBs....

 

I can believe it's not your job to be convincing--no need to even mention that.