Charles Clay Released

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think half of Tyrod's career interceptions in Buffalo deflected off of Clay's hands or shoulder pads.

 

That said.........probably the best TE the Bills have had since Riemersma 15 years ago.

 

And when the Bills signed him his peers had voted him one of the top 100 players in the league(#89 I believe) so this wasn't as much of a "wtf" signing as some might want to make it out to be.

 

TE has to be the least productive position for this team in their history.

Agreed about the sorry history of Bills TEs (although my old next door neighbor Ernie Warlick was genuinely good in the 60s). My most vivid memory of listening to games on the radio in the late 70s was Van Miller saying, “Ferguson, back to pass ... he throws to Gant ... and it is dropped.” It seemed to happen every goddamn week.

 

The Bills’ best TE of all time in the NFL era was McKeller (who was genuinely good), but he was just too injured. He never fulfilled the promise he showed because of it. If Norwood makes that kick, McKeller’s shoe-string catch on that drive becomes legend.

Edited February 16, 2019 by dave mcbride

[BillsSB2020]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed about the sorry history of Bills TEs (although my old next door neighbor Ernie Warlick was genuinely good in the 60s). My most vivid memory of listening to games on the radio in the late 70s was Van Miller saying, “Ferguson, back to pass ... he throws to Gant ... and it is dropped.” It seemed to happen every goddamn week.

 

The Bills’ best TE of all time in the NFL era was McKeller (who was genuinely good), but he was just too injured. He never fulfilled the promise he showed because of it. If Norwood makes that kick, McKeller’s shoe-string catch on that drive becomes legend.

Absolutely. I'm sure Bills fan of a certain age are aware of this, but the K gun offense was coined because of McKellar's exceptional speed for a tight end. Tight ends were not necessarily used the way they are today back in the early 90's. My hunch is that he'd have put up big time numbers during those few peak years in this generation of ball. Injuries unfortunately derailed his career.

Edited February 16, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[Orlando Tim]

4 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

You do it, you're the one that offered to post them here. 

I am generally a clay defender- it was not his mistake to take huge money when offered- but he was completely unreliable. He was often injured, even when playing. He had talent but not enough to overcome injduries.

[KD in CA]

Whelp, I sure was wrong about that one.  I thought he would be an impact player for the Bills.

[wppete]

Dabol pushing for Irv Smith Jr., TE -Alabama 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think half of Tyrod's career interceptions in Buffalo deflected off of Clay's hands or shoulder pads.

 

That said.........probably the best TE the Bills have had since Riemersma 15 years ago.

 

And when the Bills signed him his peers had voted him one of the top 100 players in the league(#89 I believe) so this wasn't as much of a "wtf" signing as some might want to make it out to be.

 

TE has to be the least productive position for this team in their history.

Imo Riemsmera  was a possession type TE with bad hands. Every now and then he would make a great catch, maybe 2 or 3 times a year so he had people fooled, but; I can remember being at RWS and watching him drop pass after pass. Oh, and he couldn't block to save his life.

 

I think that he was easily one of the most overrated players the Bills ever had. It was like we were just pretending he was good.

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed about the sorry history of Bills TEs (although my old next door neighbor Ernie Warlick was genuinely good in the 60s). My most vivid memory of listening to games on the radio in the late 70s was Van Miller saying, “Ferguson, back to pass ... he throws to Gant ... and it is dropped.” It seemed to happen every goddamn week.

 

The Bills’ best TE of all time in the NFL era was McKeller (who was genuinely good), but he was just too injured. He never fulfilled the promise he showed because of it. If Norwood makes that kick, McKeller’s shoe-string catch on that drive becomes legend.

I liked Metz. He was great in the end zone because he was so wide. Kelly would throw darts at the middle of his body. And, he blocked like an OT.

[Needle]

Clay was here for 4 years but it feels like he was a part of every loss in the last ten. Nice guy by all accounts and talented. Unfortunately timing is everything and his was atrocious here.

[MrEpsYtown]

4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...therein lies the $64,000 question that we will NEVER know the answer to....what was Whaley's actual horsepower?...was a a bonafide final decision making GM?.....or...was he a personnel gopher as in receiving his marching orders to "go find what we want or who we want and what it will take to get him"and the final decision did NOT rest in his hands?...I'd bet the latter.....yet he will forever be the dartboard of convenience.....

 

My gut tells me that he had final say in terms of personnel. He was being groomed to be the guy for a very long time. His biggest mistake was choosing EJ Manuel. Because after that he spent a ton of resources to try and help the guy, who simply did not have it. That's the main motivation for the Clay and Watkins overpays. 

 

And the braintrust did not help matters becuase they did not let him pick his coach. He constantly clashed with Rex and Dougie. Though he would have picked Hue Jackson and we would have wound up with the number 1 overall pick and either Carson Wentz or Jared Goff. 

[wppete]

 

[formerlyofCtown]

Just now, BUFFALOBART said:

He was never worth the money. - Damaged goods when he arrived in Buffalo.

You must not have watched football games until last year.  He couldnt throw himself the ball when Taylor was our QB.  He was also an excellent blocker in the run game while consistantly being open over the middle where TT didnt throw the ball.

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

My gut tells me that he had final say in terms of personnel. He was being groomed to be the guy for a very long time. His biggest mistake was choosing EJ Manuel. Because after that he spent a ton of resources to try and help the guy, who simply did not have it. That's the main motivation for the Clay and Watkins overpays. 

 

And the braintrust did not help matters becuase they did not let him pick his coach. He constantly clashed with Rex and Dougie. Though he would have picked Hue Jackson and we would have wound up with the number 1 overall pick and either Carson Wentz or Jared Goff. 

 

I don’t pretend to actually KNOW, but I always felt that was on Nix who said he wouldn’t leave until he took our next QB, and he was ready to leave. Was there any decent QB in that draft? I don’t remember, and I’m honest enough to say I’m too lazy to go look.  

[MrEpsYtown]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t pretend to actually KNOW, but I always felt that was on Nix who said he wouldn’t leave until he took our next QB, and he was ready to leave. Was there any decent QB in that draft? I don’t remember, and I’m honest enough to say I’m too lazy to go look.  

Yeah I'm not sure we will ever know, but in my mind I pin it on both of them. Matt Barkley was the most successful Bills quarterback to come out of that draft. It really was a crap quarterback year. 

 

Some pretty good undrafted players like AJ Bouye and Adam Thielen came out of that draft. 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah I'm not sure we will ever know, but in my mind I pin it on both of them. Matt Barkley was the most successful Bills quarterback to come out of that draft. It really was a crap quarterback year. 

 

Some pretty good undrafted players like AJ Bouye and Adam Thielen came out of that draft. 

 

I’m not saying it’s the case, but I wonder how much Whaley gave in on big decisions to his boss (Nix) and the Big Personality personally chosen by the new owners (Rex). I’m NOT absolving him in any way, but I just don’t know how strong he was in his true opinions, and what they actually were. Maybe we would have been worse if he made the calls? 

 

If there is ANY behind the scene type of insight I’d love, it would be to sit in a draft room and know who they loved, who was off the board, who they coveted but barely missed out on, who they tried to move up for, etc. How cool would THAT be? 

[White Linen]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am generally a clay defender- it was not his mistake to take huge money when offered- but he was completely unreliable. He was often injured, even when playing. He had talent but not enough to overcome injduries.

 

You''re completely wrong about that. 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

You''re completely wrong about that. 

Not sure how you argue he was reliable- he would have 3 game stretches where he would have 15+ catches combined and the follow it with 3 games with 6 catches in the next three. He was the best player on field against ATL last year on offense then missed three games. I am not sure how you define unreliable but a dude who  looks great 4 times a year and poor the otjer 12 is unreliable.

Just someone else who agrees with me- this was written right before he had seceral bad weeks in aroww.

https://realsport101.com/news/sports/nfl/nfl-fantasy-is-charles-clay-a-week-5-must-start/

[White Linen]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Not sure how you argue he was reliable- he would have 3 game stretches where he would have 15+ catches combined and the follow it with 3 games with 6 catches in the next three. He was the best player on field against ATL last year on offense then missed three games. I am not sure how you define unreliable but a dude who  looks great 4 times a year and poor the otjer 12 is unreliable.

Just someone else who agrees with me- this was written right before he had seceral bad weeks in aroww.

https://realsport101.com/news/sports/nfl/nfl-fantasy-is-charles-clay-a-week-5-must-start/

 

We didn't play Atlanta last year, it was 2017.  In that year we had 11 games with under 200 yards passing per game and 2 under 100.

 

You said "completely unreliable".  That's not true and you just described how it isn't.  I didn't say he was reliable.  

 

I'm saying on a team that was in 2015 the 28th lowest passing team, in 2016 the 30th passing team and in 2017 the 31st passing team - he produced.  He was 20%, 19% and 24% of the passing offense on average in 2015-2017.   He ranked no lower than 3rd on the team in yards and catches in those years.  He was 1st in catches or yards twice.  

 

We were a putrid passing offense during his time here.  He wasn't a total bust. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by White Linen

[Orlando Tim]

11 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

We didn't play Atlanta last year.  

 

You said "completely unreliable".  That's not true and you just described how it isn't.  I didn't say he was reliable.  

 

I'm saying on a team that was in 2015 the 28th lowest passing team, in 2016 the 30th passing team and in 2017 the 31st passing team - he produced.  He was 20%, 19% and 24% of the passing offense on average in 2015-2017.   He ranked no lower than 3rd on the team in yards and catches in those years.  He was 1st in catches or yards twice.  

 

We were a putrid passing offense during his time here.  He wasn't a total bust. 

I can not believe I actually have to go to find the definition of unreliable-

un·re·li·a·ble

Dictionary result for unreliable

/ˌənrəˈlīəb(ə)l/

adjective

 

1. not able to be relied upon.

   synonyms:

   undependable, untrustworthy,

    

   so could you depend on him? could you trust him to be good each week? if you could you must have been terribly disappointed during all of his 2 and 3 catch games. He literally had 40 games during his 4 years in buffalo with 3 or less catches. But you are literally parsing semantics in a manner I can not possibly understand when you say what is bolded but argue with me. But we do agree on one thing-he was not a total bust he had a few great games in his 4 years just not reliable. 

   BTW I meant 2017 game- 2018 is still "this season" to me.

 

[White Linen]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I can not believe I actually have to go to find the definition of unreliable-

un·re·li·a·ble

Dictionary result for unreliable

/ˌənrəˈlīəb(ə)l/

adjective

 

1. not able to be relied upon.

   synonyms:

   undependable, untrustworthy,

    

   so could you depend on him? could you trust him to be good each week? if you could you must have been terribly disappointed during all of his 2 and 3 catch games. He literally had 40 games during his 4 years in buffalo with 3 or less catches. But you are literally parsing semantics in a manner I can not possibly understand when you say what is bolded but argue with me. But we do agree on one thing-he was not a total bust he had a few great games in his 4 years just not reliable. 

   BTW I meant 2017 game- 2018 is still "this season" to me.

 

 

I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you.  He we as inconsistent and lost significant time/effectiveness to injury.

 

There's a difference between that and COMPLETELY unreliable.  There's a difference between unreliable and COMPLETELY unreliable.  Wow!

[Orlando Tim]

16 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you.  He we as inconsistent and lost significant time/effectiveness to injury.

 

There's a difference between that and COMPLETELY unreliable.  There's a difference between unreliable and COMPLETELY unreliable.  Wow!

I think I am being trolled-so we agree you are battling me on a semantics argument on the definition of unreliable? you agree he was inconsistent, he was not reliable and you could not predict what would happen with him from game to game BUT your personal definition of a common word in the English language should be considered superior to dictionaries definition?  

[White Linen]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I think I am being trolled-so we agree you are battling me on a semantics argument on the definition of unreliable? you agree he was inconsistent, he was not reliable and you could not predict what would happen with him from game to game BUT your personal definition of a common word in the English language should be considered superior to dictionaries definition?  

 

You got told not trolled.  The argument was about the word completely in front of unreliable.  It flew over your head multiple times because semantics confuse you.