BeginnersMind Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: And yet an open border is what we have to go with the dialogue you desire. That dialogue is about 40 years old. Here’s how America works. It takes some national agreement to get things done. That’s the beauty and frustration of a two party system, as well as checks and balances. When one oarty has had its moment of power and shoves a bad bill through (ACA), it cant survive unless the national will continues to support the single party shoving it through. Few people, including Trump, see this as an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 perspective 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: You want me to answer if I have a wall with doors? And if I answer my paradigm might crumble? This is the logic of your argument? If we extend the stupid house comparison, let me ask you some other questions. Do you have windows that can be broken with trivial work and allow an intruder in? Do you have windows, ie holes, all over your house through which anyone can enter with almost no effort? Can any human with a simple prybar open any door in your home? The analogy is silly. Our border can be breached, as can our home. That’s not an argument for a wall. It’s an argument for sensible steps, within a budget, to minimize negative impact. Chanting “build the wall” is not how we govern and it’s not problem solving. It’s just mob thinking. Actually, it is a great analogy! The windows make it a perfect analogy... there are going to be smaller, tighter spaces where people have to work harder to get in, can be monitored better - just like on windows - bars, hurricane glass, an alarm system, or a gun for intruders would make entry more difficult, and the shattering glass would make it obvious someone tried or was entering... alerting you to the entry - which makes for better policing. And the question you skipped is... if someone entered your home by breaking in, would you welcome them, or call the police? If you would call the police, why is it a-ok to allow someone into this country illegally? Why shouldn't they be removed from the country as an intruder would be removed from your home? "Building the wall" is an excellent idea. It is a permenant fixture. That means the next Democratic President will have a difficult time removing it (imagine the optics of removing a border wall, and how could it possibly be explained? We want more drugs, sex slaves, and illegal voters!? Yeah, that would go over well.) The next Congress will pay with their seats if they vote to remove it. Once in place, it stays. And that is why people against a barrier wall are "open border people" whether or not you want to admit to it. Walls work as a deterrent. You wouldn't have one around your home if they did not work. Good fences make for good neighbors. Large walls and barriers make for great allies. ? BTW, the "mob thinking"? Go back and look through recent history. The money has been voted for in the past. (The political will to carry out the plan has been lacking.) Past Presidents have said for years (since Carter) we have an open border crisis. If 40+ years of "we have an issue" is mob-think, well you and I have very different ideas of what the term "mob think" means. 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 18 hours ago, grinreaper said: For those of you hating on the wall because all the interdictions are happening at ports of entry, ponder this: Walls will force a lot, most, nearly all people, drugs and sex slaves to try to gain entrance to our country through our ports of entry where we have a much higher chance of discovering them. Can anyone argue (successfully) against this? I was discussing the wall with a left leaning friend of mine the other day, and to defend her position that it’s not needed she brought up how most of the drugs come in at ports of entry. When I asked her how she knew this, she just said it was a pretty well known fact. I said that since we only have data on the drugs we catch, we have no idea how many drugs are coming in over open border and another plausible explanation for that data is that drugs are easier to intercept at ports of entry than open border with sparse patrol and no barrier, and the purpose of the wall is to funnel more of traffic to the ports of entry, where it’s easier to catch. She just stood there slack jawed for a moment and then changed the subject. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said: Here’s how America works. It takes some national agreement to get things done. That’s the beauty and frustration of a two party system, as well as checks and balances. When one oarty has had its moment of power and shoves a bad bill through (ACA), it cant survive unless the national will continues to support the single party shoving it through. Few people, including Trump, see this as an emergency. Thanks for the civics lesson commie. 3.4% of our population did not follow the rules our government set forth. What percentage is too much? What other rules can be ignored without consequence? Slowly marching toward communism is appealing to you. I get it. At least come clean about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-by-the-president-28/ Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Chandemonium said: I was discussing the wall with a left leaning friend of mine the other day, and to defend her position that it’s not needed she brought up how most of the drugs come in at ports of entry. When I asked her how she knew this, she just said it was a pretty well known fact. I said that since we only have data on the drugs we catch, we have no idea how many drugs are coming in over open border and another plausible explanation for that data is that drugs are easier to intercept at ports of entry than open border with sparse patrol and no barrier, and the purpose of the wall is to funnel more of traffic to the ports of entry, where it’s easier to catch. She just stood there slack jawed for a moment and then changed the subject. That's the line of attack they're going to use - and all it takes is a second to think about the statement logically (as you asked your friend to employ) for it all to crumble. Here the host knows she's bullshitting but as she says, "I'm reading government statistics"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. You just quoted yourself to remind everyone to read a post they already ignored? Did you not get hugged enough as a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Stalker says what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Since this got lost after the latest attempt to slide and divide (while avoiding answering questions directly - as per usual), it's worth looking at what Trump is saying here. my biggest takeaway from it is that he lays out where he is going to take congressional findings under advisement and considers them non-binding. it's almost like he is begging them to pass a law or two or three. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Actually, it is a great analogy! The windows make it a perfect analogy... there are going to be smaller, tighter spaces where people have to work harder to get in, can be monitored better - just like on windows - bars, hurricane glass, an alarm system, or a gun for intruders would make entry more difficult, and the shattering glass would make it obvious someone tried or was entering... alerting you to the entry - which makes for better policing. And the question you skipped is... if someone entered your home by breaking in, would you welcome them, or call the police? If you would call the police, why is it a-ok to allow someone into this country illegally? Why shouldn't they be removed from the country as an intruder would be removed from your home? "Building the wall" is an excellent idea. It is a permenant fixture. That means the next Democratic President will have a difficult time removing it (imagine the optics of removing a border wall, and how could it possibly be explained? We want more drugs, sex slaves, and illegal voters!? Yeah, that would go over well.) The next Congress will pay with their seats if they vote to remove it. Once in place, it stays. And that is why people against a barrier wall are "open border people" whether or not you want to admit to it. Walls work as a deterrent. You wouldn't have one around your home if they did not work. Good fences make for good neighbors. Large walls and barriers make for great allies. ? BTW, the "mob thinking"? Go back and look through recent history. The money has been voted for in the past. (The political will to carry out the plan has been lacking.) Past Presidents have said for years (since Carter) we have an open border crisis. If 40+ years of "we have an issue" is mob-think, well you and I have very different ideas of what the term "mob think" means. The we-all-need-to-get-along-so-let-us-start-today logic he seems to be espousing is perfect for a 9th grade term paper. The sad history of addressing an issue that has gotten to the point where the argument in support of quasi-open borders is that "only several hundred thousand" people are circumventing our border crossings every year to add to the 12-20 million souls who have already done so. The Canadian govt got squeamish at about 50,000 people violating their laws. So the argument goes that while we used to impact our infrastructure each year by a city the size of San Francisco, or a Dallas, we're doing really well---like really really really well by only adding a Raleigh, Miami or Minneapolis each year. On the bright side I'm heading out of town in a few days, and I'm going to park whenever the heck I like--probably right near along the access road for departing flights, I plan on refusing to show my papers when requested and have no intention of waiting in lines for "screening". The reality is a very small percentage of people are looking to cause any trouble, so why all the fuss with walls and whatnot. I'll probably just tell anyone that pushes back "We all just need to work together here!". Walls are for suckers. Edited February 17, 2019 by leh-nerd skin-erd 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: On the bright side I'm heading out of town in a few days, and I'm going to park whenever the heck I like--probably right near along the access road for departing flights, I plan on refusing to show my papers when requested and have no intention of waiting in lines for "screening". The reality is a very small percentage of people are looking to cause any trouble, so why all the fuss with walls and whatnot. I'll probably just tell anyone that pushes back "We all just need to work together here!". So, we need to start a GoFund Me for your bail money? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, KRC said: So, we need to start a GoFund Me for your bail money? I'm a 1%er liberal. Save your money and send it to the Pelosi family for skimming, I mean safekeeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Hang in there Merica! Red Cross is doing all it can! #MericaStrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'm a 1%er liberal. Save your money and send it to the Pelosi family for skimming, I mean safekeeping. Normally, I donate it to the Clinton Foundation. You know, for charitable works like Chelsea's wedding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Foxx said: my biggest takeaway from it is that he lays out where he is going to take congressional findings under advisement and considers them non-binding. it's almost like he is begging them to pass a law or two or three. It does seem that way as that's the one way that this National Emergency declaration doesn't come across as full out foolish. There already are monies available to tap into (that apparently are already being tapped into) for the wall & this sets a bad precedent for future Presidents to simply ignore Congress. But if this spurs Congress to rewrite some laws to put actual limits on the ability they've given Presidents to declare emergencies it's a step back towards rebalancing the powers of the legislative & executive branches; that would be a very good thing. And an actual win. Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Stalker says what? Hey, just because you happen to show up ahead of him, and he's the one responding to your posts, doesn't mean you aren't the one stalking the poor lad! Like some sort of pre-stalker! Edited February 17, 2019 by Koko78 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, Taro T said: Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. I'm not sold that Congress is, either. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Taro T said: It does seem that way as that's the one way that this National Emergency declaration doesn't come across as full out foolish. There already are monies available to tap into (that apparently are already being tapped into) for the wall & this sets a bad precedent for future Presidents to simply ignore Congress. But if this spurs Congress to rewrite some laws to put actual limits on the ability they've given Presidents to declare emergencies it's a step back towards rebalancing the powers of the legislative & executive branches; that would be a very good thing. And an actual win. Still not sold that 45 is THAT good at 4D chess. i think it goes much deeper than just Trump. as others have opined, Trump may have been selected to take the trash out and he is just the pinnacle that you/we see. there are many aspects to his presidency where it seems that events are more than just mere coincidence. which in turn would suggest that there is more in play than meets the eye. i am a firm believer that we are all part a larger consciousness and that that larger consciousness leaks out through all of us. there is no other way to explain some of the madness that we currently seeing exposed on the grand scale. thanks in large part to the internet, there is a convergence of the waking mind happening, throughout all of mankind. we are experiencing a quickening that is happening in that larger consciousness and we are fast approaching a correction of sorts. Edited February 17, 2019 by Foxx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, KRC said: I'm not sold that Congress is, either. only game Congress is good at is Pin The Blame On The Other Party. And Democrats seem to enjoy Orangeman Pinata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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