If Not Violence, What’s Your Plan?

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Never mind civil war............

 

What about a nuclear holocost with Russia and/or China.

 

How does 2 billion deaths lie on your conscience(spelling)?

Only Trump can prevent that! ?

[Capco]

22 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, wrong. The hyper inflation was gone by late 20's 

 

sniff

 

Tbf, the war reparations from WWI were a major strain on the German economy.  Some in Britain believed that their abandonment would bring about an economic boom.  

 

The harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty practically guaranteed eventual political turmoil in Germany in the 20s and 30s.  

[GG]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  We were not feeding communists for free and not paying for tuition so they could listen to communist university types 100 years ago.  Also, 100 years ago it was very difficult for communists to network and hence coordinate efforts.  Today we have the internet where a discouraging word said about communism is labeled hate speech.  The internet is there also for pliable minds that will accept ideas without attempting to see if they are in fact logical.

 

 

Are you saying that without the internet, the Communists wouldn't have the capacity to organize the proletariat to overthrow governments or organize worker unions?

 

Interesting.

[Tiberius]

Just now, Capco said:

 

Tbf, the war reparations from WWI were a major strain on the German economy.  Some in Britain believed that their abandonment would bring about an economic boom.  

 

The harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty practically guaranteed eventual political turmoil in Germany in the 20s and 30s.  

Well, that was more of a propaganda point for the Nazis. Hitler blamed Germany's Depression on Versaille, which was total bunk, but it worked. The reparations actually hurt the allies economy, and this was because they were paid in kind, like in industrial goods, ships, equipment etc. So the workers in allies country lost jobs in those industries. 

 

The allies were actually funding the recovery (Dawes plan and Lacarno) and given time would have allowed the old civil service (This was the Imperial Judges etc.) to be slowly replaced. It was an old imperial judge that let Hitler off easy after trying to overthrow the government. They just needed some breathing space and the Depression did not allow that. 

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Tbf, the war reparations from WWI were a major strain on the German economy.  Some in Britain believed that their abandonment would bring about an economic boom.  

 

The harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty practically guaranteed eventual political turmoil in Germany in the 20s and 30s.  

  This was the point I was trying to get through and should have stated that hyperinflation coupled with reparations had an effect that lasted through the 1920's.  So I will have to give Tibs credit but the main point remains that democracy was very unlikely to take hold during the 1930's.

4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Are you saying that without the internet, the Communists wouldn't have the capacity to organize the proletariat to overthrow governments or organize worker unions?

 

Interesting.

  I'm saying that the internet makes their job far far easier.  That they can be more active without reprisal versus 100 years ago when they had to meet in a barn during the darkness of night quite often.

[Dante]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

I hesitated wading into this thread, but what the hell...

 

We are already at war as a nation today. It's an (dis)information war being waged by multiple actors both foreign and domestic. By my count we're in year 4 of what will come to be seen as WW3, it's just a type of war that's never been waged before. Multiple parties engaging in this shadow conflict want nothing more than for it to spill over into an actual shooting war between the people of this country - while other parties are working tirelessly to prevent such an escalation. 

 

Personally I'm a non violent guy. The thought of arming up to go to war with my fellow citizens is mortifying and would signal the darkness has taken the lead. Part of what drove me to go full bore into this research - and sharing it with this board and others - for the past 2+ years has been the belief that we can prevent an escalation by bringing the truth to light. The truth being that we are being purposefully lied to, manipulated, and divided to keep the sunlight from exposing the most complicit and dirtiest of actors in this saga. Through this work I've been privileged to meet dozens of men and women who believe we can make it through this quagmire without slipping into a shooting war and who have dedicated their professional and personal lives to seeing that mission through. 

 

At the start of this all, for me personally, I was told repeatedly that it's too late. The die was already cast, the darkness was on the march and the people were too lazy, uninterested, programmed to ever care enough to wake up and stop it. But that's not at all what I've seen and experienced over the past few years. I've seen more and more people waking up to the shenanigans afoot - even people who don't buy in to the whole narrative, they have seen enough to adjust their perception and start digging on their own into the issues of the day. Every day more people snap out of their slumber and start looking at the world with fresh eyes. 

 

That's how we're going to win without (additional) violence spilling over to the general population. Make no mistake, there already is an active shooting war going on in multiple theaters where real people are killing and dying for their chosen sides - and more will be needed to root out some of the worst elements. But I remain steadfast in my belief that their work can be augmented by the people sharing information and learning how to hone their own discernment. That's our role as citizens. That's the job of those willing to do the digging and sharing with others. 

 

If we handle this correctly - and so far I believe it has been going better than it may seem on the surface - there does not have to be a second American civil war. That remains my hope and goal. 

Good post. I agree 100% as the last few years my perception of these things has changed drastically. My personal beliefs as far as what type of culture, government system remains basically the same it always has.

I just think all this is big theater. Written, acted out to achieve what you state above. I don't believe anything I see on the news anymore. Or at least I don't believe how it's presented to us. From mass shootings to the big bad Russians coming to get us. All either fake or heavily managed

[Capco]

12 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, that was more of a propaganda point for the Nazis. Hitler blamed Germany's Depression on Versaille, which was total bunk, but it worked. The reparations actually hurt the allies economy, and this was because they were paid in kind, like in industrial goods, ships, equipment etc. So the workers in allies country lost jobs in those industries. 

 

The allies were actually funding the recovery (Dawes plan and Lacarno) and given time would have allowed the old civil service (This was the Imperial Judges etc.) to be slowly replaced. It was an old imperial judge that let Hitler off easy after trying to overthrow the government. They just needed some breathing space and the Depression did not allow that. 

 

Hmm.  I'm reading about it now on its Wiki page and I'm surprised to see that there is actually a lot of debate on the historical impact of the treaty.  Alluding to your point,

 

"Finally, Evans argued that it is untrue that Versailles caused the premature end of the Republic, instead contending that it was the Great Depression of the early 1930s that put an end to German democracy. He also argued that Versailles was not the "main cause" of National Socialism and the German economy was "only marginally influenced by the impact of reparations".

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

Hmm.  I'm reading about it now on its Wiki page and I'm surprised to see that there is actually a lot of debate on the historical impact of the treaty.  Alluding to your point,

 

"Finally, Evans argued that it is untrue that Versailles caused the premature end of the Republic, instead contending that it was the Great Depression of the early 1930s that put an end to German democracy. He also argued that Versailles was not the "main cause" of National Socialism and the German economy was "only marginally influenced by the impact of reparations".

There can also be an argument made--not sure I necassarily agree--that the Smoot-Hawley Tariff had a big impact of deepening the depression and was therefore a factor in the rise of Hitler. Global trade dropped after that (by like 2/3!!) and the other protectionism measures passed in reaction by the other countries. 

[row_33]

5 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Hmm.  I'm reading about it now on its Wiki page and I'm surprised to see that there is actually a lot of debate on the historical impact of the treaty.  Alluding to your point,

 

"Finally, Evans argued that it is untrue that Versailles caused the premature end of the Republic, instead contending that it was the Great Depression of the early 1930s that put an end to German democracy. He also argued that Versailles was not the "main cause" of National Socialism and the German economy was "only marginally influenced by the impact of reparations".

 

Go back to the Franco- Prussian War....

 

 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Go back to the Franco- Prussian War....

 

 

Go back to the Napoleonic Wars! 

[The_Dude]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Why on earth would you think that?

 

Because I don’t make things up like you do. 

[Keukasmallies]

M y Plan:

 

Step 1.  Implement term limits for all elected officials.

 

Step 2.  Once Step 1 is in place, develop Step 2.

[The_Dude]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

I guess I should have phrased it as "you're someone who claims to know history, while consistently demonstrating that you know nothing of history" - as exemplified by sheer stupidity of not knowing when the communist threats began.

 

I see — since I do history things I should be an encyclopedia. Ah yes. Many on here pretend to be by going to Google to research things before every posts. I don’t do that because I don’t need to. Also, you pathetically mischaracterized what I said to imply ignorance on my behalf. I do not respect that one but. I challenged the relivence of a hypothetical question that you asked because with my limited knowledge of American history (which is significantly greater than the average Americans) I don’t believe the perception implied in your question was accurate. 

 

But by all all means join Tom in bashing me. He likes to make things up too, I’m sure you two girls will get on fine. 

4 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

M y Plan:

 

Step 1.  Implement term limits for all elected officials.

 

Step 2.  Once Step 1 is in place, develop Step 2.

 

Step 3 is profit. 

[DC Tom]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, that was more of a propaganda point for the Nazis. Hitler blamed Germany's Depression on Versaille, which was total bunk, but it worked. The reparations actually hurt the allies economy, and this was because they were paid in kind, like in industrial goods, ships, equipment etc. So the workers in allies country lost jobs in those industries. 

 

The allies were actually funding the recovery (Dawes plan and Lacarno) and given time would have allowed the old civil service (This was the Imperial Judges etc.) to be slowly replaced. It was an old imperial judge that let Hitler off easy after trying to overthrow the government. They just needed some breathing space and the Depression did not allow that. 

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

[The_Dude]

14 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Go back to the Franco- Prussian War....

 

 

 

That Bismarck was straight gangsta. 

[Keukasmallies]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

 

I, for one, have no fear that his title was in play.

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

 

I see you correctly identified “economics” for once. 

 

However i agree, Versailles was the cause of Germany’s depression. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

This is just stupid. It was a world wide depression, there was no specific depression to Germany, it affected all the economies of the world. 

 

Stop pulling nonsense out of you rear end 

1 minute ago, The_Dude said:

 

I see you correctly identified “economics” for once. 

 

However i agree, Versailles was the cause of Germany’s depression. 

@DC Tom

I rest my case 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Isn't Generation Z supposed to be more "conservative"?  

They are... But out there.

 

Both wife and I are Gen X Liberals.  Two children Gen Z... Their brand of mixed conservative liberalism is different.  Sometimes we think we are raising a cross between Lenin, the Pope, and Ayan Rand.

 

Watch your pocketbooks old-timers... They got grand plans and lacked the social structure through their life to not know when to stop!

 

I'd say it's like European Conservatism.  Gilets jaunes meets Brexit type conservative.  Which is really liberal on this side of pond.  Socialism.

Edited February 8, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[The_Dude]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

This is just stupid. It was a world wide depression, there was no specific depression to Germany, it affected all the economies of the world. 

 

Stop pulling nonsense out of you rear end 

@DC Tom

I rest my case 

 

I’m talking after WWI. Further the restrictions on German trade from tariffs made the reparations impossible without borrowing. Those were direct impacts of Versailles. 

 

You are just awful. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

I see — since I do history things I should be an encyclopedia. Ah yes. Many on here pretend to be by going to Google to research things before every posts. I don’t do that because I don’t need to. Also, you pathetically mischaracterized what I said to imply ignorance on my behalf. I do not respect that one but. I challenged the relivence of a hypothetical question that you asked because with my limited knowledge of American history (which is significantly greater than the average Americans) I don’t believe the perception implied in your question was accurate. 

 

But by all all means join Tom in bashing me. He likes to make things up too, I’m sure you two girls will get on fine. 

 

That's quite the take for someone claiming to have cultural superiority over others.

 

Here's a hint, if you're going to start a post calling for civil war, it would be helpful if you knew the full history of the country whose citizens you want to wipe out.

[ExiledInIllinois]

33 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

M y Plan:

 

Step 1.  Implement term limits for all elected officials.

 

Step 2.  Once Step 1 is in place, develop Step 2.

It's going to make things worse.

 

Be careful what You wish for.  The road to perdition is paved with good intentions.

 

We got a clown show on both sides now, we will get an even more cyclical clown show with more corruption.

 

But... People have been warned.

 

The true answer is through a more (yes I said more) conservative court... That's the push now, so go with it.

 

Can't have a Chief Justice waffling.  Say abortion.  A few years ago dissent, then just recently to the opposite way.  Laws are schizo.  Piss or get off the pot.  Stop being afraid the SCOTUS' Ivory Tower will look tarnished.  Court decisions is where we start de-polarizing society.

 

The Court will have to move one way or another.  And we are close with RBG hanging by a feminist thread.

Edited February 8, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

It's going to make things worse.

 

Be careful what You wish for.  The road to perdition is paved with good intentions.

 

We got a clown show on both sides now, we will get an even more cyclical clown show with more corruption.

 

But... People have been warned.

 

The true answer is through a more (yes I said more) conservative court... That's the push now, so go with it.

 

Can't have a Chief Justice waffling.  Say abortion.  A few years ago dissent, then just recently to the opposite way.  Laws are schizo.  Piss or get off the pot.  Stop being afraid the SCOTUS' Ivory Tower will look tarnished.  Court decisions is where we start de-polarizing society.

 

The Court will have to move one way or another.  And we are close with RBG hanging by a feminist thread.

yeah, no. the Dems have already floated the idea of increasing the bench to 19 jurists. they can't win by the rules so they have to change them.

[BringBackOrton]

22 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's quite the take for someone claiming to have cultural superiority over others.

 

Here's a hint, if you're going to start a post calling for civil war, it would be helpful if you knew the full history of the country whose citizens you want to wipe out.

He's a grunt thinking about it like a grunt.  "Who do I shoot?"

 

38 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

Hilarious.

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 minutes ago, Foxx said:

yeah, no. the Dems have already floated the idea of increasing the bench to 19 jurists. they can't win by the rules so they have to change them.

That's wrong! Keep it at 9.  /smh

 

The other side does the same thing.  The GOP Snowflakes are begging The House not to do their job and ivestigate, when they investigated when they were in control.

 

Takes two to tango.

 

End games need to be pushed.  The sooner we get a conservative majority in the SCOTUS... The better.

Edited February 8, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[The_Dude]

48 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's quite the take for someone claiming to have cultural superiority over others.

 

Here's a hint, if you're going to start a post calling for civil war, it would be helpful if you knew the full history of the country whose citizens you want to wipe out.

 

My claiming to not be all-knowing is “quite the take”? 

 

Further, I’m not calling for a civil war. I mean I’m laughing that I actually have to write that. 

 

Youre a guy who argues by assigning a ridoculous argument to your opponent. A lot of times that’ll work as your opponent argues a point that’s not even their own. 

27 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

He's a grunt thinking about it like a grunt.  "Who do I shoot?"

 

He’s not. But you’ve already made up your mind. 

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

This is thoroughly ***** idiotic. 

 

Germany's depression was caused by Weimar inflating the currency to buy foreign currency to pay reparations.  Versailles was absolutely the cause of Germany's depression in the 20s.  And the allies were not paid "in kind" - after the Dawes plan, the German economy focused on generating foreign exchange to pay reparations.  The German economy was never geared for "payment in kind," Weimar or Nazi, not when they needed foreign exchange for their considerable import needs (e.g. oil, fodder, textiles, non-ferrous metals).  

 

But it's nice of you to out-retard The_Dude in his chosen field of ignorance.  We were getting worried he'd steal your title.

 

  This is kind of how I read it, too.  Further, Germany would have been in a smaller mess if they were not counting on the spoils of war to pay the debt on just the cost of Germany buying materials and paying men for the war never mind reparations once the war was lost.  

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

My claiming to not be all-knowing is “quite the take”? 

 

Further, I’m not calling for a civil war. I mean I’m laughing that I actually have to write that. 

 

Youre a guy who argues by assigning a ridoculous argument to your opponent. A lot of times that’ll work as your opponent argues a point that’s not even their own. 

 

He’s not. But you’ve already made up your mind. 

Yeah, I read your posts and made up my mind.  Funny how that works.

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

My claiming to not be all-knowing is “quite the take”? 

 

Further, I’m not calling for a civil war. I mean I’m laughing that I actually have to write that. 

 

Youre a guy who argues by assigning a ridoculous argument to your opponent. A lot of times that’ll work as your opponent argues a point that’s not even their own. 

 

He’s not. But you’ve already made up your mind. 

How dare he make it sound like you've said something ridiculous.

3 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Oh I don’t think there will be a civil war. I’m talking brown shirting polling places. Yes it’s a Nazirific idea — but some things the Nazis did worked. 

 

[Foxx]

24 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

... I’m not calling for a civil war. I mean I’m laughing that I actually have to write that. ...

actually, yes, that is exactly what you are calling for. i mean... i am actually laughing that i have to write that.

 

 do you expect the recipients to just stand by and have violence perpetuated upon them?

[GG]

15 minutes ago, Foxx said:

actually, yes, that is exactly what you are calling for. i mean... i am actually laughing that i have to write that.

 

 do you expect the recipients to just stand by and have violence perpetuated upon them?

 

I was scratching my head at that one too.  I thought I missed something obvious.

[The_Dude]

23 minutes ago, Foxx said:

actually, yes, that is exactly what you are calling for. i mean... i am actually laughing that i have to write that.

 

 do you expect the recipients to just stand by and have violence perpetuated upon them?

 

You’re a woman and so you don’t understand. 

[The_Dude]

43 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How dare he make it sound like you've said something ridiculous.

 

 

Yes I would turn to violence before i have some savage legislate my hard earned income away. Is there something amiss with that. 

[GG]

14 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Yes I would turn to violence before i have some savage legislate my hard earned income away. Is there something amiss with that. 

But you're not advocating a civil war.   

 

Got it 

[The_Dude]

10 minutes ago, GG said:

But you're not advocating a civil war.   

 

Got it 

 

Oh my god. Are you ########? I am not advocating the establishment of a rebellious army to take and stand in the field against the United States Army. That’s not what I’m talking about. I don’t believe in fighting a fight that can’t be won. 

 

And now re-tarded is auto blocked. Cool. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by The_Dude

[GG]

Just now, The_Dude said:

 

Oh my god. Are you ########? I am not advocating the establishment of a rebellious army to take and stand in the field against the United States Army. That’s not what I’m talking about. I don’t believe in fighting a fight that can’t be won. 

Of course you don't. You'll use your party of one to use violence to protect whatever property you think was taken unjustly, without any expectation that you won't recruit others to your cause.  

[Foxx]

17 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Oh my god. Are you ########? I am not advocating the establishment of a rebellious army to take and stand in the field against the United States Army. That’s not what I’m talking about. I don’t believe in fighting a fight that can’t be won. 

 

And now re-tarded is auto blocked. Cool. 

one would think that fighting in Iraq would have taught one the value of asymmetric warfare. the coming civil war will not be fought like the wars of the past.

[The_Dude]

14 minutes ago, GG said:

Of course you don't. You'll use your party of one to use violence to protect whatever property you think was taken unjustly, without any expectation that you won't recruit others to your cause.  

 

Uh, again no. I’m about organized violence to oppress socialism. I am about that though. And that is NOT a war. 

Just now, Foxx said:

one would think that fighting in Iraq would have taught one the value of asymmetric warfare. the coming civil war will not be fought like the wars of the past.

 

its my honest opinion that a civil war in this country in the next 100 years is impossible. 

[Foxx]

9 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

... its my honest opinion that a civil war in this country in the next 100 years is impossible. 

so, you'll be going to prison for all the violence you are planning to perpetuate then. good to know. say hello to bubba

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Uh, again no. I’m about organized violence to oppress socialism. I am about that though. And that is NOT a war. 

 

its my honest opinion that a civil war in this country in the next 100 years is impossible. 

That sounds really complicated if only there was a shorter simpler word for that.?