Not at the table Karlos Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Has anyone here had any of their friends or family brainwashed by any of these "companies"? A buddy of mine was talked into "working" for one of these and hasn't been the same since. If you say anything slightly bad about the scheme he flips out and goes into this ridiculous defense of the place. They convinced him that anyone that doesn't want to invest or talks bad about the scheme is out to destroy "his business". He talks like he reads off a script given to him by the scheme. It's like talking to a call center in India. Most of the stuff he says he has no idea what he's talking about, it's just stuff that sounds expensive. We have showed him reviews of the place online that all say the place is a scam but he won't hear any of it. What can we do to convince him he's been brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 You can't. His livelihood depends on making this work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 What's the company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: What's the company? I doubt the name matters. Same old stuff.... Edited December 17, 2018 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, Augie said: I doubt the name matters. Same old stuff.... Moe, Larry and Curly used the name as a law firm, but it fits here too: Dewey, Cheatham and Howe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) I’ve worked as an accountant on the prosecution and the other side for these. It’s hard to bring them down, especially if they have an actual product that is apparently the backbone of the business hope it ends out okay Edited December 17, 2018 by row_33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Replace "companies" with a political party and you can stick this thread in PPP 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) What do they do to people? It's like the guy switched bodies with his sponsor. His way of speaking, writing, and language all changed after a couple classes. Went from family first to screw them my business is the most important thing in the world and youre a loser if you think other wise. It's like a cult. Edited December 17, 2018 by Not at the table Karlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I know a couple people into one of these companies (its for some skin cream or something); they post crap on social media about it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Sounds like a religion. A friend of mine who I had helped out a lot got religious and their church was really big on "recruiting". We told him we had no interest but we still wanted to be friends but he was brainwashed into thinking those who do not convert are evil or something and wanted nothing to do with us. Funny it was not bad when I helped him out and he never thought of repaying me to get debt off his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 10 hours ago, row_33 said: I’ve worked as an accountant on the prosecution and the other side for these. It’s hard to bring them down, especially if they have an actual product that is apparently the backbone of the business hope it ends out okay They sell life insurance and other "good products that help people out" they don't know what the other good products are though. The main way to make money is by getting people to pay to join your "business" or team. He's convinced that he started his own company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 When the OP did not identify the company, my prediction was Asea. They are selling salt water as a panacea to correct a multitude of health problems. Their marketing group is very careful about the claims they make but their seminars, media, & material is well developed. It is amazing to me that people would believe salt water could cure anything. But they are many desperate people and the placebo effect can be strong. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/asea-still-selling-snake-oil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 My parents (well mainly my evil stepmother) got caught up in a weird pyramid scheme about 10 years ago. It was for some phone company that was based in NC, IIRC. My stepmother pissed off a lot of her friends and family members trying to coerce them to switch their phone service. I was in grad school, and I remember having to attend one of their “parties” for which a “representative” of the company pulled into the driveway in his BMW with his $2000 suit. Gave his sales pitch to myself and a few other people my stepmother lured in. It was weird and cultish *****. My parents were pissed at me for not getting involved. IIRC, they lost a bunch of money. We don’t talk about that at family gatherings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I have an old high school friend who is also a current FB friend. It's all he posts about. Zeal. Some magic coffee. Something different every year, or so. He likes to call it, "residual income," then proceeds to try to make everyone who doesn't climb aboard look like an idiot. He spends all sorts of money going to big, "conventions," and brags about living the good life due to his "residual income." He does own/operate a successful painting business. But he also has a wife who is a teacher, which takes a lot of pressure off whilst playing Ralph Kramden. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said: They sell life insurance and other "good products that help people out" they don't know what the other good products are though. The main way to make money is by getting people to pay to join your "business" or team. He's convinced that he started his own company. yikes, better to be selling a health supplement or laundry detergent (ahem....) hope he was one of the original founders, they make a lot of $$$ sorry to hear this, tough on the people around someone who gets into this suddently 28 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: My parents (well mainly my evil stepmother) got caught up in a weird pyramid scheme about 10 years ago. It was for some phone company that was based in NC, IIRC. My stepmother pissed off a lot of her friends and family members trying to coerce them to switch their phone service. I was in grad school, and I remember having to attend one of their “parties” for which a “representative” of the company pulled into the driveway in his BMW with his $2000 suit. Gave his sales pitch to myself and a few other people my stepmother lured in. It was weird and cultish *****. My parents were pissed at me for not getting involved. IIRC, they lost a bunch of money. We don’t talk about that at family gatherings ? it triple sucks when they combine it was a church membership list.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said: My parents (well mainly my evil stepmother) got caught up in a weird pyramid scheme about 10 years ago. It was for some phone company that was based in NC, IIRC. My stepmother pissed off a lot of her friends and family members trying to coerce them to switch their phone service. I was in grad school, and I remember having to attend one of their “parties” for which a “representative” of the company pulled into the driveway in his BMW with his $2000 suit. Gave his sales pitch to myself and a few other people my stepmother lured in. It was weird and cultish *****. My parents were pissed at me for not getting involved. IIRC, they lost a bunch of money. We don’t talk about that at family gatherings ? There was a great story from about 30 years ago when long distance phone service was opened up to competition and there were salesmen calling up people people left and right to try to get them to switch. A guy got a hold of various lists of church members and would call them up. The conversation went something like this: Church Member: Hello? Salesman: Hi, Mrs. AAA. This is Rev. BBB. I had lunch last week with your pastor Rev. CCC and he suggested that I call you. Oh, my other phone just rang. Can I place you on hold and get back to you in 10 seconds. Church Member: OK. Salesman: (10 seconds later) Sorry, Mrs. AAA - that was my Bishop on the other line and I need to talk to him.. Call I call you again tomorrow? Church Member: Sure. After a couple of months, the church members found out that their phone service had been switched to a new higher-priced long distance service (and the salesman got a commission each time). So what happened? Well, the long distance service that they were switched to had the name of "Holy Order Long Distance". In short, "H.O.L.D." So when the salesman asked if you could be put on "hold" and you said yes, you gave your permission to be placed on "H.O.L.D" and have your phone service switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 at least a phone line is a service that is tangible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, row_33 said: yikes, better to be selling a health supplement or laundry detergent (ahem....) hope he was one of the original founders, they make a lot of $$$ sorry to hear this, tough on the people around someone who gets into this suddently it triple sucks when they combine it was a church membership list.... How does this happen overnight? He was normal one day and a company bot the next. It's like a weird movie or he's possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Gugny said: I have an old high school friend who is also a current FB friend. It's all he posts about. Zeal. Some magic coffee. Something different every year, or so. He likes to call it, "residual income," then proceeds to try to make everyone who doesn't climb aboard look like an idiot. He spends all sorts of money going to big, "conventions," and brags about living the good life due to his "residual income." He does own/operate a successful painting business. But he also has a wife who is a teacher, which takes a lot of pressure off whilst playing Ralph Kramden. Yeah my buddy is doing this after a week. Acts like he's this big financial wizard now and he's so successful after going to a class or two for a couple hours. Belittled his entire family saying they're broke and against him because they won't buy in. Broke people are losers to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: How does this happen overnight? He was normal one day and a company bot the next. It's like a weird movie or he's possessed. they tapped into his inner greed very effectively? i had friends working a decent plumbing job one day and the next they were quitting, all they had to do was convince 2 large companies to switch over to a new phone system and they could be set for life off it... don't know what to tell you..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I had a somewhat close friend (from my late teens and 20’s) that got into selling some type of health food supplements a few years back. They claim it a MLM sales model, but it seemed more like a pyramid scheme to me. It was crazy how much it changed him, though. I don’t see him that much anymore but anytime I talk to him It’s impossible to have any type of real conversation anymore. Within 5 minutes it ALWAYS turns into a sales pitch. He is constantly trying to sell you products and recruit you as a distributor, telling you how rich you can become selling this product. It’s like he is reading off a script all the time. Even when I try to change the subject he immediately finds ways to turn it back to a conversation about his new “business” or why I need to buy these products. He now seems to mainly associate with other members of this company. He is always going with them to these seminars or events the company gives (which usually cost money to attend) or gets together to talk “shop” with them. He has also spent $1000’s on product inventory. I will say that he does seem to live a very healthy lifestyle now. He works out all the time and eats healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Back in the 80s, when Larry King was doing a late night radio talk show, I seem to recall Scamway buying advertising time, trying to get listeners to become dealers. A coworker was a dealer in this august organization, doing his best to sell us $15 tubes of toothpaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I had a somewhat close friend (from my late teens and 20’s) that got into selling some type of health food supplements a few years back. They claim it a MLM sales model, but it seemed more like a pyramid scheme to me. It was crazy how much it changed him, though. I don’t see him that much anymore but anytime I talk to him It’s impossible to have any type of real conversation anymore. Within 5 minutes it ALWAYS turns into a sales pitch. He is constantly trying to sell you products and recruit you as a distributor, telling you how rich you can become selling this product. It’s like he is reading off a script all the time. Even when I try to change the subject he immediately finds ways to turn it back to a conversation about his new “business” or why I need to buy these products. He now seems to mainly associate with other members of this company. He is always going with them to these seminars or events the company gives (which usually cost money to attend) or gets together to talk “shop” with them. He has also spent $1000’s on product inventory. I will say that he does seem to live a very healthy lifestyle now. He works out all the time and eats healthy. Pretty much the same as this guy. He found out about the scheme a month ago and started the classes a little while after. He gave up his bills seasons to go to the brainwashing classes. He would never do something like that normally. Bills game days are for bills games. Been that way his entire life. His girlfriend is convinced they drugged him. He told his brother to get out of his life when he showed him reviews of the company that said it was a scam. I'm pretty sure something happened besides milk and cookies along with a sales pitch. He was pretty good with detecting scams. All this happened overnight. Edited December 18, 2018 by Not at the table Karlos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Back in the 80s, when Larry King was doing a late night radio talk show, I seem to recall Scamway buying advertising time, trying to get listeners to become dealers. A coworker was a dealer in this august organization, doing his best to sell us $15 tubes of toothpaste. They have products to sell makes a huge difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I had a friend at my old church. He was a cool guy. He was probably about 10-15 years older than me. He was a Packers fan, and a Red Wings fan. We got a long well because you don't meet too many hockey fans here in Texas, regardless of the team. We worked on a lot of projects together in the church, and became quite close. Unfortunately, he ended up being laid off from his job, and was desperate for work. He got signed on with an MLM called "Team National." Essentially a rebate club. He invited my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I to a meeting. Immediately, I could tell this was a scam. From the diagrams of how the money works, to the overall cult like atmosphere. My wife was much more naive at the time, and was not employed a the time. She was buying everything they told us about how we'll have financial freedom, and never have to find a job, not to mention the savings alone. They could tell I wasn't interested, so they immediately started pitting us against each other. When I asked to talk to her privately, we walked outside, and not two minutes later this "friend" of mine came out telling us about how we're "getting in on the ground level." I told him that I needed some time to think it over, pray about it. He said no, act now. Acting now meant spending either $800 or $2,000 right then and there. Some Christian right there. After we ultimately decided against it, he wasn't the same person. Every time I'd try to talk about sports with him, he'd tell me he has no interest in that stuff anymore. He was only interested in things that contributed to his personal success or some BS. He told me that we can work together on church projects, and that he "considers me a Brother in Christ, but I can't be friends with you anymore because you're a negative influence in my life." This whole time, he was basically living off of his lifetime savings account to provide for his wife and two kids. I asked him out of genuine concern about two months after this all went down how the business was going. "I've only made about $50 so far, but I have some promising leads." I asked him how much longer he could survive, and he said he had about six months left worth of savings. When I told him that I hope this works out, but wanted to know what his backup plan is, he responded, "I don't have a backup plan. I'll never go back to working a regular job again. I know if I keep working at this, I'm gonna be a millionaire in two years." It was really sad to see. He was at one point a wise, fun guy to hang around. But when he lost his job, the guy above him in the chain, who I don't trust one single bit, preyed on him and turned him into a mindless robot. I honestly miss my friend, and hope he sees his error and is humble enough to admit his mistakes and start providing for his family. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 One of my staff members has a friend who is going to make $300k this year in a MLM company selling protein powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Some really depressing stuff on this thread. Guess cliche's get to be cliche's for a reason, most of them are true. There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I know a guy who got in on Beachbody and has carved himself a pretty good career.... but he is basically a glorified sales rep who needs to dedicate a social media presence blending his person with the products. On the other hand, I know dozens of people who have done that and have gotten nowhere fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Everybody wants the be the leader, the boss, etc... I guess that's the allure? 10 signs it's an MLM scam: https://www.thebalancesmb.com/business-is-an-mlm-scam-1794756 1) No or low-quality product or service There are many red flags that should warn you away from a business or financial opportunity, but the biggest is a lack of a product. Programs that push recruiting over the sales of a product or service might be a pyramid scheme. If a company isn’t focused on acquiring more customers to buy its products, but rather it's interested in "building a team" or membership of sales reps, consider it a red flag. The foundation of any good MLM business is about getting products and service to end consumers. While building a team can be a part of that, income is based on goods sold by the team, not in the recruiting itself. 3 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I know a guy who got in on Beachbody and has carved himself a pretty good career.... but he is basically a glorified sales rep who needs to dedicate a social media presence blending his person with the products. On the other hand, I know dozens of people who have done that and have gotten nowhere fast. The many getting nowhere agument the successes of the few. The work, resources, contacts, leads of the dozens get gobbled up by the few winners. Seems, heck it is, predatory. Beauty of the scams is that failure can be pinned on the individual... While the whole scheme is set up to eat those "failures." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Chef Jim said: One of my staff members has a friend who is going to make $300k this year in a MLM company selling protein powder. I half expected you were going to tell us your staffer bought a boatload of protein powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 It seems as though there are several women on my son’s Facebook feed who got sucked in. Arbonne, Rodan and Fields, other makeup or skin care companies. It’s scary and depressing to see it happen. I pretty much lose all respect for the ones who get involved. Amway was bad enough back in the day, but social media has caused many other companies to rise up and start to brainwash people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Gray Beard said: It seems as though there are several women on my son’s Facebook feed who got sucked in. Arbonne, Rodan and Fields, other makeup or skin care companies. It’s scary and depressing to see it happen. I pretty much lose all respect for the ones who get involved. Amway was bad enough back in the day, but social media has caused many other companies to rise up and start to brainwash people. You can add other known cosmetic entities through the years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 Does anyone have a story of these people returning to normal? It seems once they end up like this they're always gonna be like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Does anyone have a story of these people returning to normal? It seems once they end up like this they're always gonna be like this I mean, eventually they go broke. But a lot of them reinvest in other scams, over and over in an endless cycle. It's sad. They literally lose any sense of personality they ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 14 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Does anyone have a story of these people returning to normal? It seems once they end up like this they're always gonna be like this you mean going back to their joe-job that they hated and tried to escape in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, row_33 said: you mean going back to their joe-job that they hated and tried to escape in the first place? No. Go back to normal as in not acting like they're in a cult. Constantly making everything about their business. Destroying relationships with people that point out they're in a scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: No. Go back to normal as in not acting like they're in a cult. Constantly making everything about their business. Destroying relationships with people that point out they're in a scheme. all the folks i met who got out of a cult were completely rinsed of personality a few showed up at my church way back in the day, they were zombies, i didn't buy they were seeking a new path and thought they were just cloaking for their own purposes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, row_33 said: all the folks i met who got out of a cult were completely rinsed of personality a few showed up at my church way back in the day, they were zombies, i didn't buy they were seeking a new path and thought they were just cloaking for their own purposes That sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: That sucks yup.... one friend played out a cult for a year and pretended he wanted to join and they gave him all their literature when he told them he wasn't interested any more they seriously wanted everything back, but he was using it for his dissertation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, row_33 said: yup.... one friend played out a cult for a year and pretended he wanted to join and they gave him all their literature when he told them he wasn't interested any more they seriously wanted everything back, but he was using it for his dissertation I've been looking into doing something like this. I need to understand what they did to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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