boyst Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, dpberr said: Imagine the state of the US auto industry if the US government did not have that high tariff on pickup trucks. I agree with many here that General Motors should have been allowed to collapse in 2008. I'm still surprised Chevy and Ford could never make a vehicle that'd compete with a Subaru with better performance. Unions, ***** tier labor forces in this country and the demand for folks to make $15. ***** ford, though I own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 9 hours ago, DC Tom said: Dammit, the Volt was going to be my next car. They are selling the Bolt all electric car now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, keepthefaith said: They are selling the Bolt all electric car now. Don't care. I wanted a Volt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 12 hours ago, Dante said: GM should have been done long ago. Should have been allowed to go bankrupt and reorganize. Of course, big government to the rescue always doing what they shouldn't. Giving taxpayer funds to bail out private operations. Let nature take its course and let these companies either go extinct or evolve. Regardless. Car's will have to be made and I'm sure workers laid off will eventually get employed somewhere. Maybe Toyota or Ford They did go bankrupt and reorganize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Don't care. I wanted a Volt. Used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, TH3 said: They did go bankrupt and reorganize Reorganized by Obama, more as a jobs program than a corporate reorg. And what a shocker: Obama's gift to the UAW has negative long-term repercussions. 4 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Used. I don't want to buy someone else's problems. I want to buy new ones that are all my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 46 minutes ago, dpberr said: Imagine the state of the US auto industry if the US government did not have that high tariff on pickup trucks. I agree with many here that General Motors should have been allowed to collapse in 2008. I'm still surprised Chevy and Ford could never make a vehicle that'd compete with a Subaru with better performance. GM and Ford make a lot of all wheel drive cars/SUV's. How much more performance? Ford sold the Focus RS, all wheel drive, 350HP and a 13 second quarter mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 2 hours ago, TH3 said: They did go bankrupt and reorganize They sold a percentage to the government. They also took a relatively small loan from the government. I suspect they attached the loan so they could say later "See, we paid the government loan off in full". Knowing that the bulk of the cash injection was not a loan but a taxpayer-funded ownership purchase. They knew the general population wouldn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 34 minutes ago, Dante said: They sold a percentage to the government. They also took a relatively small loan from the government. I suspect they attached the loan so they could say later "See, we paid the government loan off in full". Knowing that the bulk of the cash injection was not a loan but a taxpayer-funded ownership purchase. They knew the general population wouldn't get it. And in exchange, they only manufactured “approved” autos and trucks. The gooberment made them drop several full lines of the GM brand (Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile) and they sold Hummer to the Chinese. All political decisions. They had to keep building low profit models to satisfy the fascist overlords. The same fascists who suborned 200 years of US bankruptcy laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Dante said: They sold a percentage to the government. They also took a relatively small loan from the government. I suspect they attached the loan so they could say later "See, we paid the government loan off in full". Knowing that the bulk of the cash injection was not a loan but a taxpayer-funded ownership purchase. They knew the general population wouldn't get it. And the government subordinated the existing GM corporate debt to their Class E shares held in the union pension fund. It wasn't an honest bankruptcy/reorg. It was a jobs program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Quote General Motors, in July, said Trump's tariffs would cost it more than $1 billion over a full year and the company's chief financial officer told Reuters that GM would deal with those added costs by "negotiating price reductions with suppliers, raising prices on more popular models, and cost cutting." The cost-cutting happened on Monday, when GM announced that it would eliminate about 14,000 jobs in North America and could close five manufacturing plants. Alongside two plants in Michigan, one in Maryland, and one in Ontario, Canada, GM said one of the plants targeted to be closed—or, um, "unallocated" in the awful PR-jargon used by GM in the announcement—is just outside of Youngstown, Ohio. https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/26/after-losing-1-billion-to-tariffs-genera#pq=2jaYof A Billion dollars??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Meanwhile GM's profits were up this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Dante said: They sold a percentage to the government. They also took a relatively small loan from the government. I suspect they attached the loan so they could say later "See, we paid the government loan off in full". Knowing that the bulk of the cash injection was not a loan but a taxpayer-funded ownership purchase. They knew the general population wouldn't get it. You and DC simply have no idea what you are talking about 6 hours ago, Nanker said: And in exchange, they only manufactured “approved” autos and trucks. The gooberment made them drop several full lines of the GM brand (Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile) and they sold Hummer to the Chinese. All political decisions. They had to keep building low profit models to satisfy the fascist overlords. The same fascists who suborned 200 years of US bankruptcy laws. Either do you 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Trump is done messing around with simple economic principles? Do they know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 25 minutes ago, TH3 said: You and DC simply have no idea what you are talking about Please, baskin...explain how I'm wrong. 26 minutes ago, TH3 said: Trump is done messing around with simple economic principles? Do they know that? Which basic economic principles are these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Dante said: GM should have been done long ago. Should have been allowed to go bankrupt and reorganize. Of course, big government to the rescue always doing what they shouldn't. Giving taxpayer funds to bail out private operations. Let nature take its course and let these companies either go extinct or evolve. Regardless. Car's will have to be made and I'm sure workers laid off will eventually get employed somewhere. Maybe Toyota or Ford EXACTLY. Billions of taxpayer dollars wasted on GM and Chrysler...not to mention the greed-riddled banks. Edited November 28, 2018 by Joe in Winslow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Boy, just goes to show you can't tax your way to prosperity! Trump's tariffs are a killer for the auto industry. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tariffs-become-headache-for-auto-industry-2018-7 Quote Stevens noted that GM is facing a net headwind of $1 billion more than it originally expected — and that's taking into account that the company was already going to confront challenges as it launches a major redesign of its full-size pickup trucks. A chunk of that $1 billion is foreign-exchange problems with the South American market. But $600-700 million, in Stevens' analysis, is due to more expensive steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 15 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: EXACTLY. Billions of taxpayer dollars wasted on GM and Chrysler...not to mention the greed-riddled banks. I have worked for two businesses that had to shut down. No one bailed us out nor was it expected. Not equal treatment under the law. It's not fair to the competition that runs their operations efficiently. Not fair to taxpayers to bail out overpriced labor and GM execs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 9:44 AM, keepthefaith said: GM and Ford make a lot of all wheel drive cars/SUV's. How much more performance? Ford sold the Focus RS, all wheel drive, 350HP and a 13 second quarter mile. GM and Ford consistently make a lot of AWD SUVs. True. Here's my point - They never made a line of AWD cars to compete with Subaru. Yes, a certain model of Focus is AWD, but you drive to ten dealerships, the majority of "Foci" are FWD. You know when you step on a Subaru lot, those are all AWD cars. You don't need to special order it or ask the dealer where he can find an available AWD Focus. VW is catching on by committing to an AWD Golf (finally) but they too are two decades behind. They should have been banging out the AWD Jettas and Golfs to compete with the Legacy and Outbacks. The days of the elderly driving around in battleship sized Buicks and Chevy Caprices is long over. They want AWD cars. Millenials want AWD. Anybody who drives in winter conditions will take an AWD or 4WD if it's in their budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/26/2018 at 11:17 AM, Tiberius said: Will Trump threaten this company too? Libertarians were so NOT upset when Trump did that to other companies. He did and I appreciate the way in which he did it. ***** GM. I’ll never buy a Chevy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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