Does josh allen arguably have the strongest arm in decades?

[TroutDog]

18 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

What does this matter so did Jamarcus Russel. How’d his arm help him

In my opinion, there is no comparison: Russell was a dolt whereas Allen is intelligent and a student of the game. 

 

It seems as though many here believe in knee jerk reactions instead of understanding that the QB position at this level takes some time to master...and a supporting cast. 

[Mr. WEO]

Nope.  Mike Vick.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nope.  Mike Vick.

Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick.

Even without having to break up dog fights?!

[Bing Bong]

JaMarcus Russell y'all ain't even close.

22 hours ago, billspro said:

There’s nothing to discuss this is a fact.

No JaMarcus Russell had a much stronger arm

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick.

He does? I didn’t see that.

[Jerome007]

16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Josh Allen's elbow injury will cause a change in his delivery resulting in him becoming the most accurate QB in history.

It's fate.

THat would be awesome LOL

 

But yeah, I'm shocked the Bills have not really used his strong arm in the last 3 games he played. I'm still glad they chose a deep pass as his first ever preseason play.

 

Of course it matters little if he hasn't accuracy, good defense reading skills and blablabla. But to say it doesn't matter? Don't be a party pooper. I'm sure we will see a few jaw dropping plays from him. And all Hail Marys he throws will have everyone on edge.

 

 

 

[Bing Bong]

9 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

THat would be awesome LOL

 

But yeah, I'm shocked the Bills have not really used his strong arm in the last 3 games he played. I'm still glad they chose a deep pass as his first ever preseason play.

 

Of course it matters little if he hasn't accuracy, good defense reading skills and blablabla. But to say it doesn't matter? Don't be a party pooper. I'm sure we will see a few jaw dropping plays from him. And all Hail Marys he throws will have everyone on edge.

 

 

 

He should be watching Brett Favre tape. Made throws no OC drew up lol cause he just played with confident instincts and that God given talented arm.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

He does? I didn’t see that.

He literally has broken every record. He was throwing 92 in high school as a pitcher, and he wasn’t a travel player robot who had been trained for speed since the age of 8. It was natural.

Edited November 11, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

49 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He literally has broken every record. He was throwing 92 in high school as a pitcher, and he wasn’t a travel player robot who had been trained for speed since the age of 8. It was natural.

 

What were Vick’s comparable numbers?   What are we comparing? 

 

Ive never seen anyone simply flick his wrist, on the run, and toss a laser bomb like Vick.  Haven’t seen that from Allen,

[WideNine]

On 11/10/2018 at 2:41 PM, mrags said:

I used to belive that too. Except evidence points to the facts that when he has tried to throw it deep so far this year, his passes have been underthtown. 

 

Hopefully its just a mistake in accuracy. Hopefully he needs to learn to plant his feet. Hopefully whatever it is, can be coached. But I have no faith in this coaching staff helping him through that. And I have serious doubts that it’s not just him not being able to throw the ball a country mile like we all previously believed. 

 

Hopefully im wrong. I really like Allen and want him to succeed. He was my number 1 choice coming out because of his physical attributes. So far I’ve been wrong. 

Balls tend to be under-thrown when a QB is back peddling and throwing off his back feet.

 

Not saying there are not accuracy issues, as there have been, but the kid has a cannon and I would like to see what his deep passes look like when he can actually step into some of those throws.

 

I have also seen plenty of Allen's deep passes go right through or off the hands of our elite receiving core. The kid has a high ceiling - maybe he reaches it, maybe he doesn't, but he needs the right support and it is waaaaay too early to tell.

[mrags]

31 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Balls tend to be under-thrown when a QB is back peddling and throwing off his back feet.

 

Not saying there are not accuracy issues, as there have been, but the kid has a cannon and I would like to see what his deep passes look like when he can actually step into some of those throws.

 

I have also seen plenty of Allen's deep passes go right through or off the hands of our elite receiving core. The kid has a high ceiling - maybe he reaches it, maybe he doesn't, but he needs the right support and it is waaaaay too early to tell.

I won’t disagree with your assessment. I also believe his ceiling is high. But his deep balls so far have been underthrown and underwhelming. Hopefully you are right and the footwork needs help. Hopefully it’s the lack of protection. I won’t disputes that either has been good. The only fact that does remain however, is that he has thrown some deep passes and almost all of them have been underthrown. To the point that the WRs have to stop and come back to make plays on the ball. 

[WideNine]

32 minutes ago, mrags said:

I won’t disagree with your assessment. I also believe his ceiling is high. But his deep balls so far have been underthrown and underwhelming. Hopefully you are right and the footwork needs help. Hopefully it’s the lack of protection. I won’t disputes that either has been good. The only fact that does remain however, is that he has thrown some deep passes and almost all of them have been underthrown. To the point that the WRs have to stop and come back to make plays on the ball. 

 

Josh has also shown a lot of hesitation in his throws and that factors into those passes not connecting either. I am hoping that he gets the comfort level to pull the trigger right when he needs to vs that bit of uncertainty that I think throws off the timing and results in the receiver running the route deeper than the throw.

 

Only time will tell, but the front office has to make the o-line a priority - could use 2-3 upgrades. I am still not quite sold on either of our center(s), but I thought that Wood struggled his first few years so maybe just a normal learning curve. I am not big on either starters on the right side in pass pro, or opening running lanes. I have seen too many promising rookie QBs damaged beyond repair behind poor lines so hope this is a priority next year.

 

Wouldn't mind them picking up a good TE too, Clay is hurt as often as he plays and a young QB needs a good TE.

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Josh has also shown a lot of hesitation in his throws and that factors into those passes not connecting either. I am hoping that he gets the comfort level to pull the trigger right when he needs to vs that bit of uncertainty that I think throws off the timing and results in the receiver running the route deeper than the throw.

 

Only time will tell, but the front office has to make the o-line a priority - could use 2-3 upgrades. I am still not quite sold on either of our center(s), but I thought that Wood struggled his first few years so maybe just a normal learning curve. I am not big on either starters on the right side in pass pro, or opening running lanes. I have seen too many promising rookie QBs damaged beyond repair behind poor lines so hope this is a priority next year.

 

Wouldn't mind them picking up a good TE too, Clay is hurt as often as he plays and a young QB needs a good TE.

Thank you. Youve added another wrinkle in the Allen argument I forgot about. It’s not just his bad accuracy, and his underthrown balls. It’s his hesitation when a wr is streaking down the sideline and he doesn’t pull the trigger or pulls it too late. By then he can’t step up into his throw, and....it’s thrown short. 

 

I think well see Teller secure the LG spot before the end of the year. No idea why they waited so long to start him honestly. But he’s looked pretty good so far. 

 

So going into the offseason we’ll need at least 2 more quality starters in the OL. Maybe pick up a G in fA, and then the best OT in the draft in round 1. 

 

I dont think the C ply has been good at all but with 2 solid Gs next to the spot I think either one of our guys now would be fine. Similar to Wood imo. He wasn’t that good honestly. Always looked much better with better play alongside him. Back when Levitre was here, and when incognito stepped it up. 

[Bing Bong]

This isn't about throwing bombs. Hopefully Allen has the armstrength to simply fit tight throws other Quarterbacks wouldn't dare to on a 20 play.. study Brett Favre haha.

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What were Vick’s comparable numbers?   What are we comparing? 

 

Ive never seen anyone simply flick his wrist, on the run, and toss a laser bomb like Vick.  Haven’t seen that from Allen,

The eyeball test?? Really? Vick ran a sub-4.4 40 time (allegedly 4.33) but come on. He doesn’t compare to Allen, who hit freaking 66 at the senior bowl. Favre supposedly hit 63 and people didn’t think it was toppable. Vick threw 60 max on his best day (which is good!). His speed and cutting ability separated him from the pack, especially when combined wih a genuinely strong arm. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by dave mcbride

[BillsMafia13]

On 11/10/2018 at 3:29 PM, NoSaint said:

 

Im not feeling particularly optimistic about McD or his development of a project qb... but I do generally believe allen can throw the ball a mile without accounting for accuracy. That’s the only reason I brought up the question.

His arm strength is unquestioned, but from the few games i've seen of him this year his drive is what gets me excited.  Super raw but the kid has the heart to get better and more so than any other rookie not names Baker

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The eyeball test?? Really? Vick ran a sub-4.4 40 time (allegedly 4.33) but come on. He doesn’t compare to Allen, who hit freaking 66 at the senior bowl. Favre supposedly hit 63 and people didn’t think it was toppable. Vick threw 60 max on his best day (which is good!). His speed and cutting ability separated him from the pack, especially when combined wih a genuinely strong arm. 

 

Yes, as I mentioned specifically in my post.

 

66 standing and throwing at a radar gun is nice (he couldn't get past 62 at the combine, so, not meaningfully different from and very comparable to Vick's 60), but you have to be able to do it on the run, off balance, cross the body to really test the strength of a thrower.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes, as I mentioned specifically in my post.

 

66 standing and throwing at a radar gun is nice (he couldn't get past 62 at the combine, so, not meaningfully different from and very comparable to Vick's 60), but you have to be able to do it on the run, off balance, cross the body to really test the strength of a thrower.

 

 

Have you not watched Allen highlights? He clearly has a cannon on the field too. That td throw in preseason against Carolina was blazing. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Have you not watched Allen highlights? He clearly has a cannon on the field too. That td throw in preseason against Carolina was blazing. 

 

 

The highlights are too few to compare.

[Thurman Kelly]

He might  throw the ball the furthest on the field, but NOBODY could throw it further out of bounds than EJ Manuel!

[WideNine]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The highlights are too few to compare.

 

So.... how many highlights were you actually expecting from your rookie QB out of Wyoming behind that o-line of misfit castoffs throwing to practice squad receivers and Kelvin?

[Zerovoltz]

Question.  If Matt Barkley can come in on 11 days prep, start, and go 15-25, for 232 and 2TD's ....can you keep using the excuse of "no line" no WR's, no supporting cast for Allen?  At what point do you have to say, produce with what you have?  Barkley just did.

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Zerovotlz said:

Question.  If Matt Barkley can come in on 11 days prep, start, and go 15-25, for 232 and 2TD's ....can you keep using the excuse of "no line" no WR's, no supporting cast for Allen?  At what point do you have to say, produce with what you have?  Barkley just did.

 

Answer..

 

Allen hasn’t played against the Jets yet...

 

He has started against the Chargers, Vikings, Packers,Titans and Houston winning 2 of those games..

 

He is also in his rookie season and not “learning from the bench”..

Edited November 13, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Zerovoltz]

Aussie Joe....I'll accept that as an answer....I am not asking to make a point...just wondering at what point folks think is reasonable to see some tangible results from Allen?  Frankly, I don't expect any this year...next year is when you need to see something..and by about week 8 if the kid isn't getting it, I'd be worried.

[Aussie Joe]

34 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

Aussie Joe....I'll accept that as an answer....I am not asking to make a point...just wondering at what point folks think is reasonable to see some tangible results from Allen?  Frankly, I don't expect any this year...next year is when you need to see something..and by about week 8 if the kid isn't getting it, I'd be worried.

 

I think Allen should start the next 5 games if injury free..

 

I agree that there is a possibility that he struggles through these games in much the same way that he did earlier in the season, but I’m going to hope he comes back second time around and things have slowed down for him a bit  against some softer teams...

 

You must admit that the Schedule did him no favours earlier in the year..

 

On another point that may not interest you, I would let Barkley play the last game of the season with an eye to perhaps sign him as a backup QB for next year..

Edited November 13, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Zerovoltz]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I think Allen should start the next 5 games if injury free..

 

I agree that there is a possibility that he struggles through these games in much the same way that he did earlier in the season, but I’m going to hope he comes back second time around and things have slowed down for him a bit  against some softer teams...

 

You must admit that the Schedule did him no favours earlier in the year..

 

On another point that may not interest you, I would let Barkley play the last game of the season with an eye to perhaps sign him as a backup QB for next year..

Anderson is pretty much a one year only mentor...Barkley at minimum should be allowed to compete for the 2.  I'd still bring in someone with a bit more chops than Barkley to be that mentor/keep the team in games veteran presence....I don't know if Barkley is that guy.  ...on the other hand, there really aren't any of those out there now who are going to be on the market......I kind of wonder if Bortles might be done in Jax and moving on to the "veteran backup" stage of his career next year....I suppose even if he is, he might not be ready yet to accept his fate and will want to compete for a job somewhere (like Miami or the Giants)  

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

So.... how many highlights were you actually expecting from your rookie QB out of Wyoming behind that o-line of misfit castoffs throwing to practice squad receivers and Kelvin?

 

Not many , but thats not the point.  I was just answering the question.

 

I’m on board with Allen.  I just think Vick, as he showed countless times in games (not throwing at a Juggs gun) had the strongest arm ever.

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not many , but thats not the point.  I was just answering the question.

 

I’m on board with Allen.  I just think Vick, as he showed countless times in games (not throwing at a Juggs gun) had the strongest arm ever.

 

Fair enough - we are probably splitting hairs on this topic. The thing that stood out for me with Vick (other than the illegal dog fight affair) was how quick his release was on those long throws (often on the run) - it seemed like it was just a snap of the wrist.

 

I have seen Josh rifle it on a rope on some of his mid-range throws and if anything the coaches probably want him to take some of the heat off those throws and throw "catchable" balls to a spot where the receiver will be open against certain coverages vs bullets to where the receiver is at the moment. Some of that is more his maturity and growth, understanding where his open guy will be based on the coverage he is seeing, and then getting the ball there on time. The game just needs to slow down a bit for him and that will only happen with playing time.

 

That being said, they need to keep him upright and out of the emergency room or concussion protocol while he learns the ropes. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

Fair enough - we are probably splitting hairs on this topic. The thing that stood out for me with Vick (other than the illegal dog fight affair) was how quick his release was on those long throws (often on the run) - it seemed like it was just a snap of the wrist.

 

I have seen Josh rifle it on a rope on some of his mid-range throws and if anything the coaches probably want him to take some of the heat off those throws and throw "catchable" balls to a spot where the receiver will be open against certain coverages vs bullets to where the receiver is at the moment. Some of that is more his maturity and growth, understanding where his open guy will be based on the coverage he is seeing, and then getting the ball there on time. The game just needs to slow down a bit for him and that will only happen with playing time.

 

That being said, they need to keep him upright and out of the emergency room or concussion protocol while he learns the ropes. 

 

 

Yeah, I started my posts about Vick by saying exactly that--him running and throwing lasers with no windup--just flicking the wrist.

 

Also at the Senior bowl practices (where Allene clocked a 66), he went 1-8 on passes of 15 yards or less in 7 on 7 drills.

 

Allen is a big strong kid.  His injury from a hit seems like a fluke--how many other QBs have ever suffered this injury from a single hit?  He'll be OK.