BillsFan130 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said: huh?? Sorry about taking one little bit of your post and harping on it but I'm not sure you're allowed to say these two statements in the same sentence What is wrong with what I said? You have Derek Anderson as your QB, with absolutely no weapons on the outside. Why would you put it in Anderson’s hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I think you're wrong. I think he is the biggest problem. Yes, the offensive line talent is lacking. Yes, the receiver talent is lacking. The thing is the offensive coordinator should be able to take these things into consideration and compensate. From what I've read here that Hapless Bills fan has posted is that in the first 5 games the Bills run game was far too complex and asking far to much from the current talent on hand. Bill Parcells would look over the weekly offensive game plan and throw out all but about 25 plays. This is how it should be setup for inexperienced QBs and the rookie. Pound the ball and move the chains by running. Once you have established that run game then you can pick and choose the passes you want as long as they are not complex. Running the ball works and it works even better if you have an elite QB. The Buffalo Bills don't have an elite QB so they should be focused on making what they do have work. Get McCoy the ball, running, passing. Forget the deep passing game and just focus on quick short passes to move the chains all the way down the field to the end zone...to score! I've found the playcalling to be pretty solid myself. At no point this season have i found myself saying "wtf" to a set of play calls. Dennison elicited that from me many times. I think that the calls generally make sense. The problem has been the players, specifically those operating the QB position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: What is wrong with what I said? You have Derek Anderson as your QB, with absolutely no weapons on the outside. Why would you put it in Anderson’s hands? Just not sure you can say you don't like predictable playcalling and immediately say that you hate passing the ball on 3rd and short.... Seems like a bit of an oxymoron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Gugny said: A good coach adjusts to his team's strengths. It's like a pitcher who's made his living blowing batters away with a high 100 MPH fastball. As he ages and his fastball tops out at 93 MPH. If he's stupid, he'll continue to try to blow batters away ... and he'll give up a lot of home runs. That's arrogance. If he's smart, he'll learn another pitch and rely more on location with the fastball. Daboll is arrogant and unwilling to adjust. We saw that with Rex Ryan and he's (finally) out of the league. Daboll's headed in the same direction for the same reason. The offense has no strengths, especially when you consider that keying on a good RB is about the easiest thing in the world to do if you have no fear of either the QB, the receivers, or the pass blocking ability of the line. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said: Just not sure you can say you don't like predictable playcalling and immediately say that you hate passing the ball on 3rd and short.... Seems like a bit of an oxymoron I don’t really get your point to be honest . Most teams in the NFL actually pass on 3rd and 2s and 3s the majority of the time to begin with. And “ predictable” can be varied in many ways. When he lines up the Bills in shotgun on 3rd and shorts, every single person knows he is going to pass. At least I do anyways. If you’re going to pass, at least show the threat of a run to keep the defence honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Gugny said: A good coach adjusts to his team's strengths. It's like a pitcher who's made his living blowing batters away with a high 100 MPH fastball. As he ages and his fastball tops out at 93 MPH. If he's stupid, he'll continue to try to blow batters away ... and he'll give up a lot of home runs. That's arrogance. If he's smart, he'll learn another pitch and rely more on location with the fastball. Daboll is arrogant and unwilling to adjust. We saw that with Rex Ryan and he's (finally) out of the league. Daboll's headed in the same direction for the same reason. They sure do when they have some. This team doesn't have strengths on offense. When your OL is piss poor at run and pass blocking and you have WR's that do not get a lot of separation, and when you have a qb that is trying to learn the game, then you get exactly what we see. Something that looks putrid but it actually has good designs and schematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I don’t really get your point to be honest . Most teams in the NFL actually pass on 3rd and 2s and 3s the majority of the time to begin with. And “ predictable” can be varied in many ways. When he lines up the Bills in shotgun on 3rd and shorts, every single person knows he is going to pass. At least I do anyways. If you’re going to pass, at least show the threat of a run to keep the defence honest. I'm not sure I buy it that most teams pass on 3rd and shorts in the NFL, but I can't say I have looked up the stats on this. I will agree with the fact that putting them in the shotgun on 3rd and short isn't a great idea, have some mystery to it. But also, the Bills are not most teams talent wise, just from watching the games (I haven't looked up the stats, sorry) I would have to guess that we normally run it on 3rd and short, so some unpredictability mixed in there by throwing on 3rd and short is a good thing and helps to break trends the teams may have seen in film study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said: I'm not sure I buy it that most teams pass on 3rd and shorts in the NFL, but I can't say I have looked up the stats on this. I will agree with the fact that putting them in the shotgun on 3rd and short isn't a great idea, have some mystery to it. But also, the Bills are not most teams talent wise, just from watching the games (I haven't looked up the stats, sorry) I would have to guess that we normally run it on 3rd and short, so some unpredictability mixed in there by throwing on 3rd and short is a good thing and helps to break trends the teams may have seen in film study. Fair points. I would prefer them running on 3rd and shorts personally just because they have the worst passing game in the NFL. But like I said. If you are going to throw, at least show the threat of the run. It’s way too predictable in that sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills88 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Does anyone think McD should allow Dabol to select his own offensive staff. QB coach, line coach and wideout coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yup, the guy, Joe Marino from Draft Network, having done a lot of analysis on Daboll's offense, says he likes a lot of what he sees. https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/10-31-joe-marino-draft-network-schopp-bulldog Thanks to FadingPain's thread for the link. Around 1:38 is the bit about Daboll. Marino: "What I really like about Brian Daboll's offense is that it schemes a lot of throws for Josh Allen or whoever his quarterback is. And they can use a lot of different formations, use a lot of personnel packages, but run a lot of similar route concepts out of them that create space to make throws and so ... you've seen a lot of that earlier in the season with some of the wheel routes that they were doing and a lot of different route combinations that are designed to create that space. So we've talked a lot about the Bills supporting cast and how they don't necessarily have great receivers that are going to create that separation, but when you can use leverage and use route combinations to find that space, you just need a quarterback to read it and rip it. It creates some easy throws. That's one of the things that I like about it. And then you saw this past weekend in the New England game - and it was really an indication that you know Buffalo knows where it is on offense, with using all the different formations and packages, the Wildcat and all those different variations. It really speaks to just that Buffalo is undermanned. It's not a fair fight when Buffalo takes the field offensively, but I do think that Brian Daboll does his best to get the most out of his talent. And I just don't know that anyone else would do a better job with this personnel." There's more but that's a good introduction to it. It's really hard to separate bad planning from bad execution sometimes. And this offense does not have a lot of talent to work with. I've got no problem if they part ways with Daboll after the season. But I wouldn't be surprised or have any problems with it if they keep him. They know a lot more about what plays were called, what defenses they should be called against, and whether it was a bad plan or the players not managing to execute. It's a literal glitch in the Human OS to want to quickly find a scapegoat and attach blame. Feels better. What works better, though, is careful grinding analysis of the problem and cold dispassionate decision-making. This is all good but I will not be happy if he is replaced because starting over will just be another setback as the players will have learn yet again another offense. We just need to get quality players in here. 4 hours ago, Gugny said: This is exactly what the problem is. This is exactly why fans don't like Daboll. This is exactly why Daboll has failed everywhere he's gone in the NFL, outside of New England. There is one reason - and only one reason - the Patriots offense is successful for the Patriots. Running that offense on a team that doesn't have a QB of Brady's caliber is stupid. Running that offense with the QBs on the Bills' roster is nothing short of asinine. He was a bad hire. Wrong, the scheme is fine it's obvious we need better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 5 hours ago, 2003Contenders said: With the sheer lack of talent on offense, it is difficult to fairly evaluate the OC's skills or philosophy at this time. Dabol deserves some time to merit a fair evaluation. Well then maybe Daboll needs to walk into Mcdermott's office and say draft me some damn offensive players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: This is all good but I will not be happy if he is replaced because starting over will just be another setback as the players will have learn yet again another offense. We just need to get quality players in here. Wrong, the scheme is fine it's obvious we need better players. It's obvious we need better players. It's also obvious the scheme doesn't make sense for the current players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, BBills88 said: Does anyone think McD should allow Dabol to select his own offensive staff. QB coach, line coach and wideout coach? If they think they need it , it hard for us to know how good a position coach is, only can they evaluate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Just now, Gugny said: It's obvious we need better players. It's also obvious the scheme doesn't make sense for the current players. We were never going to win this year....to me it is quite obvious we are playing for the high draft pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I think you're wrong. I think he is the biggest problem. Yes, the offensive line talent is lacking. Yes, the receiver talent is lacking. The thing is the offensive coordinator should be able to take these things into consideration and compensate. From what I've read here that Hapless Bills fan has posted is that in the first 5 games the Bills run game was far too complex and asking far to much from the current talent on hand. Bill Parcells would look over the weekly offensive game plan and throw out all but about 25 plays. This is how it should be setup for inexperienced QBs and the rookie. Pound the ball and move the chains by running. Once you have established that run game then you can pick and choose the passes you want as long as they are not complex. Running the ball works and it works even better if you have an elite QB. The Buffalo Bills don't have an elite QB so they should be focused on making what they do have work. Get McCoy the ball, running, passing. Forget the deep passing game and just focus on quick short passes to move the chains all the way down the field to the end zone...to score! He is compensating. Trick plays from texhmo super bowl was a TD. After the good punt return he schemed a play with a wr running free for an easy TD. We fumbled the snap. The schemes are.good people are open. We can't block throw run or even complete a snap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Just now, Gugny said: It's obvious we need better players. It's also obvious the scheme doesn't make sense for the current players. And what scheme do you think would actually work these players ? West coast offense didn't " work " either . So would a third scheme be any better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: And what scheme do you think would actually work these players ? West coast offense didn't " work " either . So would a third scheme be any better ? The run pass ratio is ridiculous in the Bills' losses. Not coincidentally, the run pass ratio is quite different in the Bills' wins. He likes the pass too much. He needs to realize that Tom Brady isn't the QB here. His game plans in every loss have been horrible and, for lack of a better term, just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: It's a literal glitch in the Human OS to want to quickly find a scapegoat and attach blame. Feels better. What works better, though, is careful grinding analysis of the problem and cold dispassionate decision-making. While I certainly appreciated the rest of the post - this is likely the most true statement I've read since the season began in relation to this board. When things are as bad as we've witnessed thus far, we have an immediate need to assign blame because it makes the issues creating the problem "known," or at least it makes us feel like they are known, despite logic often pointing in the other direction, or toward the direction of unknown. Believing that you "know" what the exact issues are provides a sense of comfort because it makes the problem manageable and ultimately, solvable. How many posters on here actually know the exact issues, remains to be seen - I know I'm certainly not one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 56 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Fair points. I would prefer them running on 3rd and shorts personally just because they have the worst passing game in the NFL. But like I said. If you are going to throw, at least show the threat of the run. It’s way too predictable in that sense When you take the Quarterback runs out (which are not currently an option with Josh injured) they have the 3rd worst running game too. There are no strengths on this offense - that is the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Gugny said: The run pass ratio is ridiculous in the Bills' losses. Not coincidentally, the run pass ratio is quite different in the Bills' wins. He likes the pass too much. He needs to realize that Tom Brady isn't the QB here. His game plans in every loss have been horrible and, for lack of a better term, just plain stupid. yeah ok, we run alot, you're just pissed and want a scapgoat, McVay couldn't make these players look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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