Someone needs to be fired over Mahomes right now.

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

So we will pay 10mill a year for Star and 8mill a year for Murphy but not a dime on WR?

 

Woods is easily worth 6mill a year for a top notch #2 WR whom we drafted to become that. Now we are hosed in finding a stud #1 and #2 at the position. Fun times.

This crap needs to stop.  Woods left in March 2017.  When Whaley was there.  Beane started May 2017.

 

Whaley could have resigned him if Woods had wanted to sign.  Beane wasn't here when he left.

 

Beane has absolutely nothing to do with Woods.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

41 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

No, I just cannot tolerate BS. We will be picking top 10. Plan? PLAN?

 

Question. how many games did you think they were going to win this season? keep in mind, this is not a team with the QB most in this thread are frothing at the mouth over. even if he were on this very team, do you really believe he would have the same success?

 

I see them easily picking in the top 10. not because they're tanking, they haven't the talent to win more than 5 games. could go between 5 and 7.

 

another Question. how many rebuilds have you been through with this team?   second season, they get at least this next draft/off season before I could give a fair grade. high pick and collect a few more, along with fa acquisitions. sounds like a plan

 

yeah, I could be crying the blues too as a bills fan, slinging negativity all around this joint mad as a hatter, but what good is going to do?

 

tough road ahead, even tougher for those that wish they had that player or that coach.

 

it's hell being envious.

Edited October 3, 2018 by no name

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

So, extending wood was a bad idea, but paying an EVEN OLDER incognito more was a good one? Don’t even try and pretend you didn’t take that position. I may just expire from the ensuing hilarity.

What?  Incognito wasn't under contract through 2019. 

 

This is why you're a bad poster.  Your analysis (lol) is basically a special ed stream of consciousness.  You're completely arrogant in your ability to spout off about topics in which you're woefully uninformed. You are 1000 "Why haven't we signed Dez yet?" posters in a single tiny, angry man.

11 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

So we will pay 10mill a year for Star and 8mill a year for Murphy but not a dime on WR?

 

Woods is easily worth 6mill a year for a top notch #2 WR whom we drafted to become that. Now we are hosed in finding a stud #1 and #2 at the position. Fun times.

I won't justify a bad decision with a bad decision.  If it was my call, I would have laughed Star out of the building with those contract demands.  And Murphy wouldn't have sniffed $8M per after missing a year, pass rush help needed or no.  

 

And I agree with you, I would've paid Woods before either of those guys, especially knowing Watkins was on his way out, although we might have had to pay 7.5M instead of 6.  But if I was calling the shots, I'm not sure it would have been smart to do any of that.

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Quote from Polian before the draft:

 

Here’s what ESPN’s Hall of Fame GM Bill Polian says about most college QBs, who work out of the spread: “They don’t talk at the college level; the quarterback doesn’t talk. He doesn’t call a play, he doesn’t call a snap count, he doesn’t call a formation, very few audibles. They don’t use their voices. Everything’s done by symbol and cards in the spread.”

If I’m a GM, I don’t move on one high, but I’m not a GM. I’m not desperate. But desperation is what it’s come down to, because teams aren’t winning Super Bowls anymore without a decent one. And, under the new CBA, rookie salaries are limited, so teams aren’t throwing $40 million at them.

I wouldn’t have taken a Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson high in the draft, but it’s hard to blame teams for taking a shot. If they screw up, it’s not as punishing financially or on the field as it used to be.

[Matty the Dustmop]

22 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

 

If it was McDermott and Beane's decision get their asses the hell out of Buffalo.

 

They don't deserve to be running the team anymore.

Wow pretty demanding there. FYI Beane wasnt even around yet and it was McClappy and the Whales pick, ones no longer around and McClappys on the clock.

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, no name said:

 

Question. how many games did you think they were going to win the season? keep in mind, this is not a team with the QB most in this thread are frothing at the mouth over. even if he were on this very team, do you really believe he would have the same success?

 

I see them easily picking in the top 10. not because they're tanking, they haven't the talent to win more than 5 games. could go between 5 and 7.

 

another Question. how many rebuilds have you been through with this team?   second season, they get at least this next draft/off season before I could give a fair grade. high pick and collect a few more along with fa acquisitions. sounds like a plan

 

yeah, I could be crying the blues too as a bills fan, slinging negativity all around this joint mad as a hatter, but what good is going to do?

 

tough road ahead, even tougher for those that wish they had that player or that coach.

 

it's hell being envious.

I thought we would win between 7 to 9 games. Thought Benjamin, Clay and Shady were going to be a lot lot lot better than this, I am sorely disappointed.

 

Would Wood, Watkins or Glenn be as successful here? Absolutely not! Absolutely not! But so what? We would be 1,000x better and that's all that matters to me.

 

As far as how many rebuilds I've been through? All of them, which is why I'm losing my patience. Don't get me wrong, we drafted well, but none of these guys help Allen, none of them. And to have an offense that can't put points on the board will work against your defense. I question McD's coaching credentials, he has no concept of building a team and I'm extremely concerned that he needs so many players on defense. Highly highly question his ability as a coach.

 

As far as the negativity, I'm sorry but I'm just tired of circling the drains and not the wagons. Going on 20 years of this ****, we are the Cleveland Browns bro.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Quote from Polian before the draft:

 

Here’s what ESPN’s Hall of Fame GM Bill Polian says about most college QBs, who work out of the spread: “They don’t talk at the college level; the quarterback doesn’t talk. He doesn’t call a play, he doesn’t call a snap count, he doesn’t call a formation, very few audibles. They don’t use their voices. Everything’s done by symbol and cards in the spread.”

If I’m a GM, I don’t move on one high, but I’m not a GM. I’m not desperate. But desperation is what it’s come down to, because teams aren’t winning Super Bowls anymore without a decent one. And, under the new CBA, rookie salaries are limited, so teams aren’t throwing $40 million at them.

I wouldn’t have taken a Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson high in the draft, but it’s hard to blame teams for taking a shot. If they screw up, it’s not as punishing financially or on the field as it used to be.

That's it!  @joesixpack is really Bill Polian!

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Glenn at LT with Dawkins at RT was the right move, period. Glenn was a road grader and a good LT for a long time. We essentially replaced him instead of stacking the line.

 

The problem with Buffalo is we just let good guys go, we are the farm team for the NFL. Woods, Watkins, Glenn, Darby and Robey will have long careers elsewhere.

 

Long career does not equal great careers.

 

How many yards did Sammy have last year?  Oh yeah, under 500.  How many yards did Woods have last year?  Oh yeah under 800.  How many times has Darby been burned?  Oh yeah too many to count.  How did Darby do in the SB?  Oh yeah he helped give up over 500 yards passing to a 40 year old QB.  How good has Robey been?  So good Rams spent a ton of money and picks to acquire Peters and Talib so he wouldn't have to start.  

 

But keep panicking about guys getting paid a lot to be role players or make minimal impacts.  The only real argument would be Woods, but he didn't want to resign here and took a deal above his expected market price to go home to LA.  He said he wanted to go back to LA, so people need to stop acting like the FO just jettisoned out of here just because.  It takes interest on BOTH sides to keep a FA.  Not to mention, Woods still has never had a 1000 yard season and he struggles with injuries.  He never played to the level he is currently playing at here in Buffalo.  

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I thought we would win between 7 to 9 games. Thought Benjamin, Clay and Shady were going to be a lot lot lot better than this, I am sorely disappointed.

 

Would Wood, Watkins or Glenn be as successful here? Absolutely not! Absolutely not! But so what? We would be 1,000x better and that's all that matters to me.

 

As far as how many rebuilds I've been through? All of them, which is why I'm losing my patience. Don't get me wrong, we drafted well, but none of these guys help Allen, none of them. And to have an offense that can't put points on the board will work against your defense. I question McD's coaching credentials, he has no concept of building a team and I'm extremely concerned that he needs so many players on defense. Highly highly question his ability as a coach.

 

As far as the negativity, I'm sorry but I'm just tired of circling the drains and not the wagons. Going on 20 years of this ****, we are the Cleveland Browns bro.

 

appreciate the cool reply. folks have been pretty touchy of late.

 

looks like they have focused on the defense more last off season and the only way I would start to drift is if they did not go all out offense this next off season? may pick up more on defense through fa?

 

like I said, it's going to be a tough road. being a bills fan is. 

 

dyed in the wool red white and blue...GO BILLS!!!

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I thought we would win between 7 to 9 games. Thought Benjamin, Clay and Shady were going to be a lot lot lot better than this, I am sorely disappointed.

 

Would Wood, Watkins or Glenn be as successful here? Absolutely not! Absolutely not! But so what? We would be 1,000x better and that's all that matters to me.

 

As far as how many rebuilds I've been through? All of them, which is why I'm losing my patience. Don't get me wrong, we drafted well, but none of these guys help Allen, none of them. And to have an offense that can't put points on the board will work against your defense. I question McD's coaching credentials, he has no concept of building a team and I'm extremely concerned that he needs so many players on defense. Highly highly question his ability as a coach.

 

As far as the negativity, I'm sorry but I'm just tired of circling the drains and not the wagons. Going on 20 years of this ****, we are the Cleveland Browns bro.

 

 

 

You see, there is the source of your problem...this lie you live and tell yourself.  You claim 20 years...no its not.  Its YEAR 2.  The previous 18 years before this regime, this GM, this Coach etc literally have zero...if less than zero was possible, it would be that...literally zero relevance to this team right now.  

 

Its always the same story...this fan base puts all of the past failures of different coaches, different GMs, different owners, even periods with no GMs...all on the current regime every time.  And the moment they dont have immediate success, they crap all over them and blame the previous years on them too.  Its absurd.

 

Whats even more absurd, is that THIS regime had IMMEDIATE and UNEXPECTED success getting a mediocre talented team to the Playoffs to break 17 years.  And had Zay not run such a sloppy route against Carolina, we would have won 10 games.  Had the Peterman experiment not happened in SD too, we may have even won 11 games.  

 

But THAT team LAST year was NOT going to win us a SUPER BOWL.  Major changes needed to happen...they got rid of BAD contracts, players who didnt fit the long term plans, players they didnt feel they could retain, players they felt didnt fit their system.  And in the process lost a couple more they didnt expect on the OL.  But they emerged to set this team up LONG TERM by getting a very talented young QB, a very talented LB to anchor our D, a very talented heir to Kyle, and also a BUTT LOAD of Cap Space and lots of extra draft picks this next year.  

 

All this whining about this year is pointless.  All this "20 years" crap are your own personal issues and literally has NOTHING to do with the state of this team or the competency of this regime.  We wont know how good of a job they are or aren't doing for 2 more years.  Its greatly rooted in the development of Allen and Edmunds (more Allen though) and how they use this cap space and picks the next year or two to stack talent around our young players.    

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You see, there is the source of your problem...this lie you live and tell yourself.  You claim 20 years...no its not.  Its YEAR 2.  The previous 18 years before this regime, this GM, this Coach etc literally have zero...if less than zero was possible, it would be that...literally zero relevance to this team right now.  

 

Its always the same story...this fan base puts all of the past failures of different coaches, different GMs, different owners, even periods with no GMs...all on the current regime every time.  And the moment they dont have immediate success, they crap all over them and blame the previous years on them too.  Its absurd.

 

Whats even more absurd, is that THIS regime had IMMEDIATE and UNEXPECTED success getting a mediocre talented team to the Playoffs to break 17 years.  And had Zay not run such a sloppy route against Carolina, we would have won 10 games.  Had the Peterman experiment not happened in SD too, we may have even won 11 games.  

 

But THAT team LAST year was NOT going to win us a SUPER BOWL.  Major changes needed to happen...they got rid of BAD contracts, players who didnt fit the long term plans, players they didnt feel they could retain, players they felt didnt fit their system.  And in the process lost a couple more they didnt expect on the OL.  But they emerged to set this team up LONG TERM by getting a very talented young QB, a very talented LB to anchor our D, a very talented heir to Kyle, and also a BUTT LOAD of Cap Space and lots of extra draft picks this next year.  

 

All this whining about this year is pointless.  All this "20 years" crap are your own personal issues and literally has NOTHING to do with the state of this team or the competency of this regime.  We wont know how good of a job they are or aren't doing for 2 more years.  Its greatly rooted in the development of Allen and Edmunds (more Allen though) and how they use this cap space and picks the next year or two to stack talent around our young players.    

 

Do you think there should exist concerns about if Mcbeane knows best how to use that cap space and those picks right now?

Edited October 3, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[#34fan]

I ain't gonna lie.... I had zero clue that Mahommes would be this good... I thought he might be OK one day, but this was unexpected... The son-of-a-gun can throw around frickin' corners, and STILL hit his target in stride... It's not natural... I've never seen anything like it.

[Victory Formation]

@Alphadawg7

 

I'm not going through each point, many many many folks disagree with me and that is 100% fine. I understand I may seem negative right now, but many fans here also agree with my thoughts, if not in this thread, around the forum. Optimism is not always reality though, you feel me? Sometimes reality isn't a rosy thing, but it gives fans hope and that's a good thing, but don't get it twisted, optimism is by no means a reality.

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Do you think there should exist concerns about if Mcbeane knows best how to use that cap space and those picks right now?

In my honest opinion, no.  McD and Beane have EARNED the benefit of the doubt when they took a rag tag team and snapped the 17 year old drought.  Beane had further earned trust pulling off trades and getting value for guys people said we could never trade, like getting a 3rd for Tyrod.  Lets not forget that a majority of this board didnt think we could even get a 4th for Watkins and he got a 2nd and a solid player.  Not to mention putting the team in position through other moves to get 2 first round premium rookies at major positions of need this draft in Allen and Edmunds.  Not to mention he got us out of cap hell and now have the best cap situation moving into next year.  Not to mention our D is in pretty good shape moving forward and can now focus on talent around Allen with all that cap space and draft picks.

 

So YES, I do have faith.  They have NOT done anything to me to make me concerned.  They had to tear down the things everyone hated that Whaley did to get this team in position to truly build a new foundation with the proper cap space.  So right now, absolutely they have my trust.  I said that BEFORE the season began, I would NOT judge them on THIS season as all the moves were NOT for payoff THIS season, but for the future of this franchise.  

Edited October 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[GreggTX]

You are 100%  correct, OP! Doug Whaley should be fired immediately !!!

Edited October 3, 2018 by GreggTX

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

@Alphadawg7

 

I'm not going through each point, many many many folks disagree with me and that is 100% fine. I understand I may seem negative right now, but many fans here also agree with my thoughts, if not in this thread, around the forum. Optimism is not always reality though, you feel me? Sometimes reality isn't a rosy thing, but it gives fans hope and that's a good thing, but don't get it twisted, optimism is by no means a reality.

 

My point isnt about being negative...its about lumping 20 years onto owners who were not part of the 20 years and a front office and coaching staff that were not part of those 20 years.  It has no relevancy of any kind to the this current team.  

 

Rebuilds take time...but because of past regimes failures, people dont want to give time.  That is unrealistic and impossible to achieve.  We wont know how good or bad this regime is for at least 2 years until we see how this years draft class and next years FA and Draft class do.  

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

In my honest opinion, no.  McD and Beane have EARNED the benefit of the doubt when they took a rag tag team and snapped the 17 year old drought.  Beane had further earned trust pulling off trades and getting value for guys people said we could never trade, like getting a 3rd for Tyrod.  Lets not forget that a majority of this board didnt think we could even get a 4th for Watkins and he got a 2nd and a solid player.  Not to mention putting the team in poison to get 2 first round premium rookies at major positions of need this draft in Allen and Edmunds.  Not to mention got us out of cap hell and now have the best cap situation moving into next year.  Not to mention our D is in pretty good shape moving forward and can now focus on talent around Allen with all that cap space and draft picks.

 

So YES, I do have faith.  They have NOT done anything to me to make me concerned.  They had to tear down the things everyone hated that Whaley did to get this team in position to truly build a new foundation with the proper cap space.  So right now, absolutely they have my trust.  I said that BEFORE the season began, I would NOT judge them on THIS season as all the moves were NOT for payoff THIS season, but for the future of this franchise.  

"McD and Beane have EARNED the benefit of the doubt when they took a rag tag team and snapped the 17 year old drought." 

 

How much of that is indicative of their team-building versus ability as a coach?

 

"Beane had further earned trust pulling off trades and getting value for guys people said we could never trade, like getting a 3rd for Tyrod.  Lets not forget that a majority of this board didnt think we could even get a 4th for Watkins and he got a 2nd and a solid player."

 

Yes, Beane showed he was really good at getting picks for players.  I'm not concered about his ability to sell, any idiot can accumulate picks.  I'm concerned about his ability to buy.

 

"Not to mention putting the team in poison to get 2 first round premium rookies at major positions of need this draft in Allen and Edmunds."

 

And yet, we won't know if those picks work out until at least 2 years from now (your words).

 

"Not to mention got us out of cap hell and now have the best cap situation moving into next year."

 

It's very easy to cut/trade a bunch of guys and eat their cap hits all in one year.  "Cap hell" and "good players under contract" are closer to each other than you think.

 

"Not to mention our D is in pretty good shape moving forward"

 

???

 

Really, our backfield is in good shape.  Our pass rush is anemic, LoRax is old, Murphy and Star are not good and are overpaid.  Harry is a rotational DT.  It wouldn't shock me to see an entirely new DL in the next 2 years.  And pass rushers are the most important position on defense and we have zero good ones.

 

"Can now focus on talent around Allen with all that cap space and draft picks."

 

I guess that's my point.  We haven't had the greatest track record of accumulating offensive or DL talent with resources so far.  What gives you the idea that McBeane will get the WR position right next year for example?

Edited October 3, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My point isnt about being negative...its about lumping 20 years onto owners who were not part of the 20 years and a front office and coaching staff that were not part of those 20 years.  It has no relevancy of any kind to the this current team.  

 

Rebuilds take time...but because of past regimes failures, people dont want to give time.  That is unrealistic and impossible to achieve.  We wont know how good or bad this regime is for at least 2 years until we see how this years draft class and next years FA and Draft class do.  

Your optimistic in the rebuild, I'm not. I went over why I'm not optimistic repeatedly already, you disagree and that's fine. To be frank, I don't trust the process.

 

Can I blame McD for the last 20 years? No. It's a collection of people, he is part of it though. Ralph being the biggest part of it, Terry the lesser part. I'm just frustrated man.

[PlayoffsPlease]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You see, there is the source of your problem...this lie you live and tell yourself.  You claim 20 years...no its not.  Its YEAR 2.  The previous 18 years before this regime, this GM, this Coach etc literally have zero...if less than zero was possible, it would be that...literally zero relevance to this team right now.  

 

Its always the same story...this fan base puts all of the past failures of different coaches, different GMs, different owners, even periods with no GMs...all on the current regime every time.  And the moment they dont have immediate success, they crap all over them and blame the previous years on them too.  Its absurd.

 

Whats even more absurd, is that THIS regime had IMMEDIATE and UNEXPECTED success getting a mediocre talented team to the Playoffs to break 17 years.  And had Zay not run such a sloppy route against Carolina, we would have won 10 games.  Had the Peterman experiment not happened in SD too, we may have even won 11 games.  

 

But THAT team LAST year was NOT going to win us a SUPER BOWL.  Major changes needed to happen...they got rid of BAD contracts, players who didnt fit the long term plans, players they didnt feel they could retain, players they felt didnt fit their system.  And in the process lost a couple more they didnt expect on the OL.  But they emerged to set this team up LONG TERM by getting a very talented young QB, a very talented LB to anchor our D, a very talented heir to Kyle, and also a BUTT LOAD of Cap Space and lots of extra draft picks this next year.  

 

All this whining about this year is pointless.  All this "20 years" crap are your own personal issues and literally has NOTHING to do with the state of this team or the competency of this regime.  We wont know how good of a job they are or aren't doing for 2 more years.  Its greatly rooted in the development of Allen and Edmunds (more Allen though) and how they use this cap space and picks the next year or two to stack talent around our young players.    

 

It is entirely possible to review the mistakes of the new regime, and find many that a similar mistakes of past regimes.   So the 20 years is entirely relevant in that particular context.  I am not sure many fans coming off the first playoff season in 17 years necessarily thought the game plan going forward was to liquidate the personnel on roster the and start from scratch with the cheapest roster in the league (dead cap making up the difference).  The Bills are pretty much a classic expansion.  A rookie QB capable of generating some excitement.  Several decent looking first and second year guys (which all teams have) several fan popular older vets that are not part of the long term plans (Kyle, Shady) with the rest of the veterans being guys whose talent levels reflect there low cost or massively underperforms their high cost (Clay)

Mixed in are a couple of questionable FA decisions. Its not clear that the best way to help your rookie QB (or second year guy) is to make pay 10 million for a "space eating" defensive lineman , rather than add a quality linemen or WR.