Kelly the Dog Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Pretty much every single QB comparison outside of Chad Pennington is going to have a "yeah but Peterman's arm is weaker" argument. With that being the case Cousins seems like a great comparison to me. That's true. But if you have Peterman's arm you cannot be Kirk Cousins. And if you have Kirk Cousins' arm you can. So it's not a good comparison imo because Peterman can not be Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: That's true. But if you have Peterman's arm you cannot be Kirk Cousins. And if you have Kirk Cousins' arm you can. So it's not a good comparison imo because Peterman can not be Cousins. Give it a rest. Right now he has one of 32 jobs on the planet doing what he does, and he beat out a kid far more lauded, with far more investment and prestige, who looked much more the part than he did. Yet, he took it down. Somewhere out there in this big wide world, someone just may know something you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 21 hours ago, bills11 said: I will continue to use my eyes and my brain. Like i said if you think Cam Newton Known for having an absolute cannon arm and the combine point has no merit..because Cam had a cannon at Auburn and if you think has the same velocity on his passes as ryan nassib or andy dalton ..then you need to get your eyes checked. I don't need scientific data to tell me that aaron rodgers has a significantly stronger arm then drew brees..or tyrod taylor or matt ryan i can see that on the field by the velocity in their passes..its not that hard to comprehend This is absolutely funny. So your eye is a better judge of velocity than a laser/radar gun? I seriously hope you're a cop and I would love to have you give me a speeding ticket based on your eye...man I'd love to appear in front of a judge for that ticket. I couldn't care any less than I do about this argument but sorry you're comment just made me laugh and I had to post. Have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Yav said: This is absolutely funny. So your eye is a better judge of velocity than a laser/radar gun? I seriously hope you're a cop and I would love to have you give me a speeding ticket based on your eye...man I'd love to appear in front of a judge for that ticket. I couldn't care any less than I do about this argument but sorry you're comment just made me laugh and I had to post. Have a good one. That article has been debunked multiple times for having inaccurate data..clearly you missed the point i was making. The point i was making was that the data doesn't line up with what i've seen it has nothing to do with having better eyes than a laser radar gun. Data has been wrong before and will be in the future..in 2010 taylor mays official 40 time was 4.43 despite nfl network simulcast showing him beating people who ran a 4.34 https://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/3/1334838/-taylor-mays-40-time-nfl-combine-2010-draft. My point is the data looked inaccurate because its widely known joe flacco has elite velocity..so how could he have less velocity then andy dalton whos not known for having a huge arm. Edited September 5, 2018 by bills11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bills11 said: That article has been debunked multiple times for having inaccurate data..clearly you missed the point i was making. The point i was making was that the data doesn't line up with what i've seen it has nothing to do with having better eyes than a laser radar gun. Data has been wrong before and will be in the future..in 2010 taylor mays official 40 time was 4.43 despite nfl network simulcast showing him beating people who ran a 4.34 https://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/3/1334838/-taylor-mays-40-time-nfl-combine-2010-draft. My point is the data looked inaccurate because its widely known joe flacco has elite velocity..so how could he have less velocity then andy dalton whos not known for having a huge arm The article is not debunked at all. You can use any other number of excuses like, maybe someone had a bad day, or maybe it's not reflective of in game performance because the mechanics they're using are totally different. It's even possible that some get stronger in the pros and others don't. To say measurements at the combine are bunk data, completely destroys any credibility you might have. They've been doing these measurements for 8 years and they have a seemingly significant impact on draft status. Edited September 5, 2018 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: 17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't agree that is what he is doing. QB controversies are created when you have two QB who have played very well in games. That applies to neither of these QB to date. QB controversies are created when you unexpectedly bench a QB. It was expected that Peterman or McCarron would start QB controversies are created when you bring in a QB who is held to be "ready to start" and he's not. Allen was a raw prospect who was known to need work, both on his fundamentals and on the speed/complexity of the pro game. It was expected he would sit for a while. If we go 13-3 and make the playoffs with Peterman playing well at QB, then there may be a QB controversy Right now, there is not. The data at that link are based on Ourlads. It has been debunked numerous times that the Ourlads data is not official QB velocity data and can differ from it markedly. One source said 30% of the numbers are wrong. Please keep this in mind when arguing about empirical data vs eyes. There's also the valid point that just as 40 times don't necessarily reflect game speed or ability to gain separation, combine velocity numbers don't necessarily reflect the velocity of throws in a game. 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: The article is not debunked at all. You can use any other number of excuses like, maybe someone had a bad day, or maybe it's not reflective of in game performance because the mechanics they're using are totally different. It's even possible that some get stronger in the pros and others don't. To say measurements at the combine are bunk data, completely destroys any credibility you might have. They've been doing these measurements for 8 years and they have a seemingly significant impact on draft status. Did you just choose to skip over that post by hapless bills fan..because it didnt line up with your thoughts? 2nd of all you lost all credibility you had from the first page when you said cam newton didnt have a big arm and then posted an article from nfl.com that said the opposite and listed velocity as one of his strengths..then you deleted your post upon realizing your mistake. I never said measurements at the combine are bunk data completely i said that set of data by ourlads on this very forum has been debunked multiple times for being inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Because I'm hoping we keep Brees and trade Rivers. That would be the opposite of a Brees / Rivers scenario. Actually , it’s not even that. Brees wasn’t traded, he was a UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Jesus. No. Just... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, bills11 said: Did you just choose to skip over that post by hapless bills fan..because it didnt line up with your thoughts? 2nd of all you lost all credibility you had from the first page when you said cam newton didnt have a big arm and then posted an article from nfl.com that said the opposite and listed velocity as one of his strengths..then you deleted your post upon realizing your mistake. I never said measurements at the combine are bunk data completely i said that set of data by ourlads on this very forum has been debunked multiple times for being inaccurate. Didn't delete any posts except for one where I provided even more evidence you have no idea what you're talking about, but I didn't want to get into it with you. I just wanted you to think that you're right, because it saves me aggravation. The link I posted to his scouting report said he had "enough arm" not a rocket launcher, as you claimed. Secondhand hearsay is not evidence. Jesus, this is exhausting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Didn't delete any posts except for one where I provided even more evidence you have no idea what you're talking about, but I didn't want to get into it with you. I just wanted you to think that you're right, because it saves me aggravation. The link I posted to his scouting report said he had "enough arm" not a rocket launcher, as you claimed. Secondhand hearsay is not evidence. Jesus, this is exhausting. Your opinion isn't evidence either im not gonna go back and forth with you all night. we agree to disagree its fine life goes on.. and the scouting report said..what does puts tons of revolution on the ball mean to you ...what does flashes the ability to zip the ball into tight spots those are references to throwing with great velocity. from a prior thread comparing allen to cam newton. Your the only one interpreting his scouting report incorrectly if you cant even understand the terms used by the scouting community to describe velocity what credibility do you even have? https://twitter.com/JonScottTV/status/991030647883026432 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cam-newton?id=2495455 ANALYSIS STRENGTHS Newton has a rare blend of height, strength and speed. Fierce competitor and emotional leader. Flashes the ability to zip the ball into tight spots. Has a quick, over-the-top delivery. Puts a ton of revolutions on the ball and can make all the throws. Frequently evades the rush for second-chance opportunities. Threat to pick up large chunks when he tucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: Give it a rest. Right now he has one of 32 jobs on the planet doing what he does, and he beat out a kid far more lauded, with far more investment and prestige, who looked much more the part than he did. Yet, he took it down. Somewhere out there in this big wide world, someone just may know something you don't. Look, Starting Nate Peterman has far more to with other issues on the team than it does with Peterman himself. Far more than you would care to admit. This is more about the Oline, Allen’s newness to the pro-style passing game, and the simple fact that there is zero downside to starting Peterman over Allen. If Peterman kills it ( unlikely, I know..) and turns into the next Brady, McDermott doesn’t have a care in the world. Heck, he’s having a parade ! If he struggles and shows his limitations en route to a 1-5 start, you plug in Allen and no one is clamoring for more Peterman. Regardless of Allen’s ups and downs. If you start Allen out of the gate and he inevitably has a rough go of it, the whispers about Peterman begin in the media, then the fanbase, then maybe the locker room. That cannot be allowed to happen. The only logical choice is to start Nate Peterman. There is virtually no losing scenario. I’m not sure how anyone ( including Vic Carruci) can honestly be surprised by this decision. I’m actually more surprised the NYJ are starting Darnold week one than I am about NP. While I was pretty sure it would be MCarron, he actually had some trade value and it may as well be NP. They’re pretty interchangeable, really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bills11 said: Your opinion isn't evidence either im not gonna go back and forth with you all night. we agree to disagree its fine life goes on.. and the scouting report said..what does puts tons of revolution on the ball mean to you ...what does flashes the ability to zip the ball into tight spots those are references to throwing with great velocity. from a prior thread comparing allen to cam newton. Your the only one interpreting his scouting report incorrectly if you cant even understand the terms used by the scouting community to describe velocity what credibility do you even have? https://twitter.com/JonScottTV/status/991030647883026432 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cam-newton?id=2495455 ANALYSIS STRENGTHS Newton has a rare blend of height, strength and speed. Fierce competitor and emotional leader. Flashes the ability to zip the ball into tight spots. Has a quick, over-the-top delivery. Puts a ton of revolutions on the ball and can make all the throws. Frequently evades the rush for second-chance opportunities. Threat to pick up large chunks when he tucks. "Revolutions on the ball" could not have any less to do with throwing velocity. You can fire a football out of a literal cannon at 200 mph with zero revolutions. "flashes" zip, and "enough arm" are the supporting evidence I was sharing that you either completely missed or deliberately ignored. No one's saying he isn't a strong amazing athlete. Again, zero to do with throw power. You really can't question my interpretation skills when basic reading comprehension isn't on display here. Here's the beauty of it all, you'll get to watch this season as you get to see whether or not you were right or wrong. Edited September 5, 2018 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: "Revolutions on the ball" could not have any less to do with throwing velocity. You can fire a football out of a literal cannon at 200 mph with zero revolutions. "flashes" zip, and "enough arm" are the supporting evidence I was sharing that you either completely missed or deliberately ignored. No one's saying he isn't a strong amazing athlete. Again, zero to do with throw power. You really can't question my interpretation skills when basic reading comprehension isn't on display here. Here's the beauty of it all, you'll get to watch this season as you get to see whether or not you were right or wrong. That's amusing coming from a guy who consistently creates his own narrative..saying peterman has a stronger arm than Drew Brees when nothing has been shown in live action that remotely backs up that opinion. Drew Brees doesn't struggle throwing the deep out.. hes shown the ability to make all the throws which peterman has not. If you watch football you've seen time and time again brees shred defences on all levels..Peterman throws near ..pick 6 ..interceptions on every pass he attempted that are the " velocity" throws the deep out. You can find 100 scouting reports for Cam Newton and all of them will mention his arm strength as a positive infact his scouting reports are very similar to josh allen hence why the comparison was made here on the board and in the media . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, bills11 said: That's amusing coming from a guy who consistently creates his own narrative..saying peterman has a stronger arm than Drew Brees when nothing has been shown in live action that remotely backs up that opinion. Drew Brees doesn't struggle throwing the deep out.. hes shown the ability to make all the throws which peterman has not. If you watch football you've seen time and time again brees shred defences on all levels..Peterman throws near ..pick 6 ..interceptions on every pass he attempted that are the " velocity" throws the deep out. You can find 100 scouting reports for Cam Newton and all of them will mention his arm strength as a positive infact his scouting reports are very similar to josh allen hence why the comparison was made here on the board and in the media . You bore me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, bills11 said: That article has been debunked multiple times for having inaccurate data..clearly you missed the point i was making. The point i was making was that the data doesn't line up with what i've seen it has nothing to do with having better eyes than a laser radar gun. Data has been wrong before and will be in the future..in 2010 taylor mays official 40 time was 4.43 despite nfl network simulcast showing him beating people who ran a 4.34 https://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/3/1334838/-taylor-mays-40-time-nfl-combine-2010-draft. My point is the data looked inaccurate because its widely known joe flacco has elite velocity..so how could he have less velocity then andy dalton whos not known for having a huge arm. I think you’re the one that actually missed my point. I don’t care about the tests, the numbers or the data. I just found your comment all on its own funny. A human eye isn’t a better judge of velocity than a laser/radar gun. That’s all. Im not defending the tests and I’m not saying the numbers are correct. I’m just saying your comment was funny to me. Edited September 5, 2018 by Yav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 23 hours ago, SoTier said: Drew Brees never threw 5 INTs in a half in the NFL ... maybe in Pop Warner but not in the NFL. No, but he did throw 5 interceptions in a single game in the NFL (against Atlanta in 2012) He also has two games with 4 interceptions and 15 games with 3 interceptions. Now of course that is over 16 seasons, not in his first half of NFL football ever, but even the best can have a very bad day. Hell, Brady threw 4 Ints in a game against the Bills and he's probably the QB with the best interception percentage ever. One bad day does not equate to a career. Nathan now has a chance to prove it was one bad day and not who he is as a QB. (of course, I'm not saying he will ever be as good as Brees or Brady...few are or may ever be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 7 hours ago, folz said: No, but he did throw 5 interceptions in a single game in the NFL (against Atlanta in 2012) He also has two games with 4 interceptions and 15 games with 3 interceptions. Now of course that is over 16 seasons, not in his first half of NFL football ever, but even the best can have a very bad day. Hell, Brady threw 4 Ints in a game against the Bills and he's probably the QB with the best interception percentage ever. One bad day does not equate to a career. Nathan now has a chance to prove it was one bad day and not who he is as a QB. (of course, I'm not saying he will ever be as good as Brees or Brady...few are or may ever be). Believe it or not, that honor belongs to Tyrod Taylor. Of course he only has like 1300 attempts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I cant believe no one made this comparison before, if you changed uniforms during a game you wouldn’t be able to tell the 2 apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 On 9/4/2018 at 6:16 AM, SoTier said: Drew Brees never threw 5 INTs in a half in the NFL ... maybe in Pop Warner but not in the NFL. Drew brees though wanted to be a dolphin but they passed on him for duante culpepper. Brees does not have a cannon but is very accurate and he struggled into his third full season. I think the comparison has some merit but we might want to wait until Peterman actually wins a game to make this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Found this article that seems relevant to this discussion https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/saints/article_7d0ccf3e-aa4c-11e8-afb1-1b6d8d23cbe8.html I hope Peterman plays great, I really do. But hes not Drew Brees and its absolutely ridiculous comparison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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