[Vague Title] Richie, Richie, Richie SMH

[teef]

10 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

The Bills offered him a contact. Would they have done that if he was mentally unstable?

 

This all started when the Bills cut his salary. That was bush league and penny wise, pound foolish.

who knows how ritchie was acting.  maybe they thought he was worth it for a specific price, set it, and he agreed to it, which he absolutely didn't have to.  ritchie is not mentally healthy, and that's in no way the fault of the bills.

[Doc]

You never quit/get yourself fired before you have another job lined up.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Grab a dictionary hahahaha

 

Cause that was a weak rep point attempt you cretin buffoon irrespectable pile of verbose copycat shenanigan rep point fishers ?

 

Well, congratulations on some slightly less verbose buffoonery. We'll get you there, little buddy.

 

[Best Player Available]

Cogs recent behavior::

An aging guard, the incident in Jag town,. 

Then he was not only offered a pay cut. He signed the contract. and it was far from vet minimum. 

people having issues in contract talks typically do not SIGN.

Then piss & moan about it, go off the rails in a gym. Threaten funeral home employees lives. tweet bat crap crazy stuff. 

 

maybe his agent let him down? Don't know sports agents, but have associates represented by agents

for contract, or any income stream negotiations. You do not sign what you don't want too. If you are

not happy with what your agent has negotiated. You fire him/her.  Or tell them to shop your services elsewhere. 

 

I doubt a single NFL team has him on their radar now. And why would they? 

 

[Sky Diver]

43 minutes ago, teef said:

who knows how ritchie was acting.  maybe they thought he was worth it for a specific price, set it, and he agreed to it, which he absolutely didn't have to.  ritchie is not mentally healthy, and that's in no way the fault of the bills.

 

What is the “right price”, for someone who is acting erratically and is mentally unstable?

 

From what I can determine, the contract negotiations and the Bills’ low ball offer triggered some sort of mental breakdown.

 

Is his breakdown the Bills’ fault? No, but they should have paid the guy.

 

Just one man’s opinion.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

I am making an educated guess on what triggered his apparent breakdown based on information that has been reported in the press. I don’t have any inside information.

 

Not quite.  You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior

Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact.

 

One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship.  Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill.

 

Quote

Can you explain why the Bills would offer him a contract if he was “melting down” in practice or showing sign of being mentally unstable? 

 

There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy.  The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check.  At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer.  It's just a question of degree.  With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical,  but saw no red flags - at that time.

 

Quote

I didn’t “blame the Bills”. I suggested that the contract negotiations and the low ball offer likely triggered the breakdown.

I think the low ball offer was rididuolus and they should have maintained his salary.

 

I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started only when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. 

 

People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on.  It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered.

[teef]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

What is the “right price”, for someone who is acting erratically and is mentally unstable?

 

From what I can determine, the contract negotiations and the Bills’ low ball offer triggered some sort of mental breakdown.

 

Is his breakdown the Bills’ fault? No, but they should have paid the guy.

 

Just one man’s opinion.

that's fair.  i suppose there's always an amount deemed worthy of a specific player that a team feels comfortable with.  ritchie also mentioned physical reasons for retiring, so i'm guessing that had a large part on his breakdown.  at the end of the day, it's unlikely that cogs would have been on this team this coming year either way.

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not quite.  You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior

Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact.

 

One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship.  Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill.

 

 

There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy.  The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check.  At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer.  It's just a question of degree.  With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical,  but saw no red flags - at that time.

 

 

I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started only when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. 

 

People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on.  It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered.

this is all well stated.  there's much more to ritchie's breakdown than the bills offering him a reduced contract to sign.  i'm sure he wasn't pleased about it, but i can't imagine that's the stimulus.

[Jerome007]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on.  It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered.

Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. 

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not quite.  You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior

Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact.

 

One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship.  Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill.

 

 

There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy.  The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check.  At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer.  It's just a question of degree.  With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical,  but no red flags.

 

 

I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. 

 

People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on.  It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered.

 

Of course the guy had mental issues. That’s pretty well established. However, there were no issues that I am aware of in the last three years or so he spent with the Bills. Something triggered him, the contract issue being the most likely candidate based on publically available info. It correlates with his behavioral change.

 

It’s all speculation at this point since we don’t know what else may have changed.

6 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. 

 

They throw away $3.5M on Coleman, but cut Richie’s salary, by what $1M/yr when he is playing at a Pro Bowl level and they are weak at OL? Stupid. They surely didn’t know he was going to go off the rails, but at the very least, did they think he would be happy? The contract offer was just plain dumb.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. 

 

With the latter, I completely agree.  I think at the time, Beane was trying to stock the cookie jar to make a run at a FA QB, which would be a good football move - but after they all went elsewhere, if I were RI I'd be "took one for the team so you could nab a good FA QB, AJM and his salary are not reasons to take one for the team, you all done a bait and switch, gimme back my money"  - independent of any mental screwiness. 

 

Hopefully we can also agree a twitter tantrum is not an appropriate venue for grievances. 

 

I'm not sure how you get "best and most useful player on the team".  'Cog was a good player, but to put him above McCoy, Benjamin, Dawkins, White, Williams etc seems a bit "out there".

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

You don’t offer a guy a contract, low or not, if you you think he’s crazy. That would be stupid and the Bills aren’t stupid.

 

He started acting eratically after the contract offer. It’s reasonable to surmise that his change of behavior and the contract are related.

 

It’s clear that he felt he was mistreated.

 

What’s your point? The Bills were aware of his history and they signed him twice, and then resigned him. 

 

It appears that the contract negotiation triggered some sort of breakdown.

 

The Bills obviously couldn’t have predicted that, but he deserved better than the low ball contract they offered him.

 

 

 

His history of erratic behavior became known to many in college.  Then in Miami.  His agreeing to a reduced compensation didn't trigger anything that didn't always exist. 

 

Was he "mistreated" in both of the colleges he went to?  In Miami?

 

NFL teams knowingly hire bad humans all the time.  The Bills would not be the exception.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Of course the guy had mental issues. That’s pretty well established. However, there were no issues that I am aware of in the last three years or so he spent with the Bills. Something triggered him, the contract issue being the most likely candidate based on publically available info. It correlates with his behavioral change.

 

No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence.  Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails.

 

Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March.  His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later.

All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks.

 

As for the rest, you're a funny guy.  Most of us seem cognizant of the fact that any issues we are aware of on a professional football team, are inevitably the tiny tip of a very large iceberg. 

 

You seem to think that if you aren't aware of the rest of the iceberg, it therefore is not likely to exist - a very strange belief system for a self-described engineer.

 

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence.  Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails.

 

Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March.  His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later.

All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks.

 

 

Skydiver making assertions on invisible evidence?

Never.

[Doc]

His issues have nothing to do with the Bills. They predated his time with them. 

[WhickedWilliams]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:25 PM, Steptide said:

Glenn played 2 games last year. Wood retirement was completely un forseen, and Ritchie re nigged on his contract and retired. All of which are none of the front office's fault 

Well said! 

[Sky Diver]

39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence.  Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails.

 

Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March.  His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later.

All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks.

 

As for the rest, you're a funny guy.  Most of us seem cognizant of the fact that any issues we are aware of on a professional football team, are inevitably the tiny tip of a very large iceberg. 

 

You seem to think that if you aren't aware of the rest of the iceberg, it therefore is not likely to exist - a very strange belief system for a self-described engineer.

 

 

 

 

The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse.

 

The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact.

 

Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract.

[Royale with Cheese]

43 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Skydiver making assertions on invisible evidence?

Never.

 

Yeah he does.  Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south?

I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama.  

4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse.

 

The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact.

 

Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract.

 

The guy has had mental issues since at least his college days.  No one knows his triggers or what he does when he's not a story in the public.

You don't know anything.

[SouthNYfan]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah he does.  Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south?

I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama.  

 

The guy has had mental issues since at least his college days.  No one knows his triggers or what he does when he's not a story in the public.

You don't know anything.

 

I was being sarcastic.

Sky makes things up all the time.

[teef]

28 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse.

 

The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact.

 

Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract.

it's not at all though.  that's what everyone is trying to explain to you.

[Sky Diver]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah he does.  Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south?

I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama.  

 

Self-hatred? It’s a known phenomenon.

Just now, teef said:

it's not at all though.  that's what everyone is trying to explain to you.

 

And everyone tried to explain to me that Reuben Foster was guilty and Robert Foster had a 0% chance of making the team.

 

I like my chances of being right about Richie too.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Self-hatred? It’s a known phenomenon.

 

And everyone tried to explain to me that Reuben Foster was guilty and Robert Foster had a 0% chance of making the team.

 

I like my chances of being right about Richie too.

this has zero to do with the conversation we're having right now.  you being right on that has nothing to do with being right about cogs.  i'm not sure why you even brought it up.  do you think incognito not being able to physically play due to medical issues had anything to do with it?  the bills couldn't have caused that.

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse.

 

The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact.

 

Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract.

 

Drugs is the most logical explanation.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Self-hatred? It’s a known phenomenon.

 

You're such a child....

[Sky Diver]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

this has zero to do with the conversation we're having right now.  you being right on that has nothing to do with being right about cogs.  i'm not sure why you even brought it up.  do you think incognito not being able to physically play due to medical issues had anything to do with it?  the bills couldn't have caused that.

 

I don’t think he has medical issues, at least not to the extent that he indicated.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Sky Diver

[teef]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

I don’t think he has medical issues, at least not to the extent that he indicated.

so...even though he very publicly indicated he did, you don't think he was telling the truth?

 

you have very little info which causes you to jump to a pretty illogical conclusion.  when presented with some evidence from the person himself, you completely discount it because it doesn't fit your original idea.  got it.

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, teef said:

so...even though he very publicly indicated he did, you don't think he was telling the truth?

 

you have very little info which causes you to jump to a pretty illogical conclusion.  when presented with some evidence from the person himself, you completely discount it because it doesn't fit your original idea.  got it.

 

I think he expressed his thoughts about his medical condition when he was in a mentally disturbed condition triggered by the contract negotiation and low ball contract offer.

 

What is “pretty illogical” about my opinion about what happened with Richie?

 

It appears that he still wants to play. Would he want to play if his major organs were really shutting down! I think he probably has some medical issues front playing football from most of his life, but his comments were hyperbole.

[teef]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

I think he expressed his thoughts about his medical condition when he was in a mentally disturbed condition triggered by the contract negotiation and low ball contract offer.

 

What is “pretty illogical” about my opinion about what happened with Richie?

 

It appears that he still wants to play. Would he want to play if his major organs were really shutting down! I think he probably has some medical issues front playing football from most of his life, but his comments were hyperbole.

so what you're going to do here is find a way to twist the story any way you can to fit the idea that the bills caused incognito's breakdown.  what's pretty illogical is that you refuse to look at a very large history of mental illness, or how mental illness even works.  i suppose there's no discussion to be had here with you.  hey...i tired.

[Sky Diver]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Drugs is the most logical explanation.

 

Maybe the negotiations and low ball contract offer caused him to take illicit drugs or get off his meds, which in turn triggered a breakdown. I can buy that.

Just now, teef said:

so what you're going to do here is find a way to twist the story any way you can to fit the idea that the bills caused incognito's breakdown.  what's pretty illogical is that you refuse to look at a very large history of mental illness, or how mental illness even works.  i suppose there's no discussion to be had here with you.  hey...i tired.

 

Not sure why you keep saying the Bills caused Richie’s breakdown when I have stated multiple times that wasn’t the case.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Maybe the negotiations and low ball contract offer caused him to take illicit drugs or get off his meds, which in turn triggered a breakdown. I can buy that.

 

Not sure why you keep saying the Bills caused Richie’s breakdown when I have stated multiple times that wasn’t the case.

or maybe he was on drugs, acting differently, causing the bills to start to distance themselves, got news of the medical condition, and then had the breakdown.  see how there's a lot of variables here?   i swear, cogs himself could tell you that the contract didn't set off his decline, and you'd still argue.

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

or maybe he was on drugs, acting differently, causing the bills to start to distance themselves, got news of the medical condition, and then had the breakdown.  see how there's a lot of variables here?   i swear, cogs himself could tell you that the contract didn't set off his decline, and you'd still argue.

 

Madone already. The Bills didn’t “distance themselves”, they offered him a contract.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Madone already. The Bills didn’t “distance themselves”, they offered him a contract.

we're done here.

[Sky Diver]

Do you think if had mental health or life threatening medical issues they would have offered him a contract?

 

Jesuit education must have really dropped off since I graduated undergrad.

[teef]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

Do you think if had mental health or life threatening medical issues they would have offered him a contract?

 

Jesuit education must have really dropped off since I graduated undergrad.

says the guy that's somehow impressed with the academics of alabama.   

 

on occasion my 3 year old will get a wrong idea in her head.  when i try to correct her, she sometimes refuses to listen to any reason.  i just chalk it up to that simple, developing brain, and walk away.  that's what i'm doing here.

[Doc]

33 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Maybe the negotiations and low ball contract offer caused him to take illicit drugs or get off his meds, which in turn triggered a breakdown. I can buy that.

 

Go ahead and buy it.  It's still the least likely explanation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse.

 

The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact.

 

Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract.

 

OK, we'll agree to disagree then, including disagreement about your use of the word "logical".   
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

Buyer's Remorse and Unhappiness with a contract do not "trigger" mental breakdowns in people who are not already in a parlous mental state.

[Sky Diver]

23 minutes ago, teef said:

says the guy that's somehow impressed with the academics of alabama.   

 

on occasion my 3 year old will get a wrong idea in her head.  when i try to correct her, she sometimes refuses to listen to any reason.  i just chalk it up to that simple, developing brain, and walk away.  that's what i'm doing here.

 

If you want to discuss Alabama, PM me. It’s completely irrelevant to this topic.

[Doc]

What was that **** Ritchie was taking and blamed the gym incident on?  "Lowball contract" something or other?

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, we'll agree to disagree then, including disagreement about your use of the word "logical".   
"You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means."  -Inigo Montoya

 

Buyer's Remorse and Unhappiness with a contract do not "trigger" mental breakdowns in people who are not already in a parlous mental state.

 

We all know he isn’t a stable guy, although he had no issues that I am aware of in 3 or so years with Buffalo.

 

How do you know what his triggers are or aren’t? The contract issues could also have occurred parallel with some other personal issues, like his father’s health. I do think that the contract was at least a contributing factor.

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Maybe the negotiations and low ball contract offer caused him to take illicit drugs or get off his meds, which in turn triggered a breakdown. I can buy that.

 

Not sure why you keep saying the Bills caused Richie’s breakdown when I have stated multiple times that wasn’t the case.

 

Yes, NFL players who are offered reduced/renegotiated contracts always show their displeasure with the "low ball offer" by first willingly signing the offer and THEN they go crazy and/or take drugs that make them crazy.

 

Anyway, he was still going to make more in 2018 than he made in 2017.  It was restructure or they were going to cut him.

[teef]

16 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

If you want to discuss Alabama, PM me. It’s completely irrelevant to this topic.

shhhh.  you're tired and a bit over stimulated.  why don't you sit quietly for a bit and have some you time.

 

also, if alabama is irrelevant to this topic, why bring up a jesuit education?  isn't that also irrelevant to the topic too?  do you see why people don't take you seriously?

Edited September 5, 2018 by teef