teef Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Sky Diver said: The Bills offered him a contact. Would they have done that if he was mentally unstable? This all started when the Bills cut his salary. That was bush league and penny wise, pound foolish. who knows how ritchie was acting. maybe they thought he was worth it for a specific price, set it, and he agreed to it, which he absolutely didn't have to. ritchie is not mentally healthy, and that's in no way the fault of the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 You never quit/get yourself fired before you have another job lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 6 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Grab a dictionary hahahaha Cause that was a weak rep point attempt you cretin buffoon irrespectable pile of verbose copycat shenanigan rep point fishers ? Well, congratulations on some slightly less verbose buffoonery. We'll get you there, little buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Cogs recent behavior:: An aging guard, the incident in Jag town,. Then he was not only offered a pay cut. He signed the contract. and it was far from vet minimum. people having issues in contract talks typically do not SIGN. Then piss & moan about it, go off the rails in a gym. Threaten funeral home employees lives. tweet bat crap crazy stuff. maybe his agent let him down? Don't know sports agents, but have associates represented by agents for contract, or any income stream negotiations. You do not sign what you don't want too. If you are not happy with what your agent has negotiated. You fire him/her. Or tell them to shop your services elsewhere. I doubt a single NFL team has him on their radar now. And why would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, teef said: who knows how ritchie was acting. maybe they thought he was worth it for a specific price, set it, and he agreed to it, which he absolutely didn't have to. ritchie is not mentally healthy, and that's in no way the fault of the bills. What is the “right price”, for someone who is acting erratically and is mentally unstable? From what I can determine, the contract negotiations and the Bills’ low ball offer triggered some sort of mental breakdown. Is his breakdown the Bills’ fault? No, but they should have paid the guy. Just one man’s opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Sky Diver said: I am making an educated guess on what triggered his apparent breakdown based on information that has been reported in the press. I don’t have any inside information. Not quite. You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact. One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship. Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill. Quote Can you explain why the Bills would offer him a contract if he was “melting down” in practice or showing sign of being mentally unstable? There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy. The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check. At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer. It's just a question of degree. With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical, but saw no red flags - at that time. Quote I didn’t “blame the Bills”. I suggested that the contract negotiations and the low ball offer likely triggered the breakdown. I think the low ball offer was rididuolus and they should have maintained his salary. I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started only when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on. It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Just now, Sky Diver said: What is the “right price”, for someone who is acting erratically and is mentally unstable? From what I can determine, the contract negotiations and the Bills’ low ball offer triggered some sort of mental breakdown. Is his breakdown the Bills’ fault? No, but they should have paid the guy. Just one man’s opinion. that's fair. i suppose there's always an amount deemed worthy of a specific player that a team feels comfortable with. ritchie also mentioned physical reasons for retiring, so i'm guessing that had a large part on his breakdown. at the end of the day, it's unlikely that cogs would have been on this team this coming year either way. 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not quite. You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact. One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship. Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill. There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy. The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check. At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer. It's just a question of degree. With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical, but saw no red flags - at that time. I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started only when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on. It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered. this is all well stated. there's much more to ritchie's breakdown than the bills offering him a reduced contract to sign. i'm sure he wasn't pleased about it, but i can't imagine that's the stimulus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball contract offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on. It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered. Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not quite. You are making an unsupported assertion - that the very public "twitter" tantrum was, in fact, the start of Richie's erratic behavior Then you are making a guess based on that unsupported assertion, and stating it as fact. One might just as well assert that RI's problems began when Wood told him he had to quit football, and with more evidence, since both have indicated it was an important relationship. Richie may have started self-medicating with recreational drugs and/or alcohol and slid downhill. There's a difference between "erratic behavior" and totally crazy. The former may be a sign of the latter, but plenty of folks have some erratic aspects to how they roll but manage to keep them in check. At an "educated guess" based on his past history, Richie always marches to a bit of a different drummer. It's just a question of degree. With all the players away from the training facilities, it would be easy to see how the Bills might have areas of concern they may have addressed with Richie during his exit physical, but no red flags. I understand your opinion about the Bills contract offer, but to suggest (or assert) that the lowball contract offer was a "trigger" of a breakdown, or that the breakdown started when the twitter tantrum did, are both totally unsubstantiated and ...may I say...Improbable. People who are stable and healthy, faced with a lowball offer, either reject it all together or sign it and move on. It seems very likely that if a lowball contract (not OFFER, contract to which Richie agreed) was a trigger, there was a pre-existing condition primed to be triggered. Of course the guy had mental issues. That’s pretty well established. However, there were no issues that I am aware of in the last three years or so he spent with the Bills. Something triggered him, the contract issue being the most likely candidate based on publically available info. It correlates with his behavioral change. It’s all speculation at this point since we don’t know what else may have changed. 6 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. They throw away $3.5M on Coleman, but cut Richie’s salary, by what $1M/yr when he is playing at a Pro Bowl level and they are weak at OL? Stupid. They surely didn’t know he was going to go off the rails, but at the very least, did they think he would be happy? The contract offer was just plain dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: Yes but that's what we're saying. We can't blame the Bills for RI going on a total mental breakdown, 99% of players wont react that way, but we certainly can doubt the reasoning behind offering a paycut to one of THE best and most useful player on the team. Too late now, and RI has some important issues to take care of, but that paycut wasn't the best football move IMO, that's for damn sure. With the latter, I completely agree. I think at the time, Beane was trying to stock the cookie jar to make a run at a FA QB, which would be a good football move - but after they all went elsewhere, if I were RI I'd be "took one for the team so you could nab a good FA QB, AJM and his salary are not reasons to take one for the team, you all done a bait and switch, gimme back my money" - independent of any mental screwiness. Hopefully we can also agree a twitter tantrum is not an appropriate venue for grievances. I'm not sure how you get "best and most useful player on the team". 'Cog was a good player, but to put him above McCoy, Benjamin, Dawkins, White, Williams etc seems a bit "out there". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sky Diver said: You don’t offer a guy a contract, low or not, if you you think he’s crazy. That would be stupid and the Bills aren’t stupid. He started acting eratically after the contract offer. It’s reasonable to surmise that his change of behavior and the contract are related. It’s clear that he felt he was mistreated. What’s your point? The Bills were aware of his history and they signed him twice, and then resigned him. It appears that the contract negotiation triggered some sort of breakdown. The Bills obviously couldn’t have predicted that, but he deserved better than the low ball contract they offered him. His history of erratic behavior became known to many in college. Then in Miami. His agreeing to a reduced compensation didn't trigger anything that didn't always exist. Was he "mistreated" in both of the colleges he went to? In Miami? NFL teams knowingly hire bad humans all the time. The Bills would not be the exception. Edited September 5, 2018 by Mr. WEO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Of course the guy had mental issues. That’s pretty well established. However, there were no issues that I am aware of in the last three years or so he spent with the Bills. Something triggered him, the contract issue being the most likely candidate based on publically available info. It correlates with his behavioral change. No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence. Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails. Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March. His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later. All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks. As for the rest, you're a funny guy. Most of us seem cognizant of the fact that any issues we are aware of on a professional football team, are inevitably the tiny tip of a very large iceberg. You seem to think that if you aren't aware of the rest of the iceberg, it therefore is not likely to exist - a very strange belief system for a self-described engineer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence. Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails. Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March. His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later. All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks. Skydiver making assertions on invisible evidence? Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 His issues have nothing to do with the Bills. They predated his time with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhickedWilliams Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 9/3/2018 at 5:25 PM, Steptide said: Glenn played 2 games last year. Wood retirement was completely un forseen, and Ritchie re nigged on his contract and retired. All of which are none of the front office's fault Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No, that is your assertion totally absent evidence. Based on publically available info of 'Cog's previous recreational drug use (acknowledged by him in published media interviews) the most likely candidate is that 'Cog "fell off the wagon" (people who deal with addicts know that the trigger for that can be just about anything), resumed habits that interfered with his medication regime for mental issues (also acknowledged by him in published media interviews), and that caused him to go off the rails. Incognito signed his renegotiated contract and it was announced 15 March. His public twitter meltdown started 5 April, 3 weeks later. All kinds of things can happen in 3 weeks. As for the rest, you're a funny guy. Most of us seem cognizant of the fact that any issues we are aware of on a professional football team, are inevitably the tiny tip of a very large iceberg. You seem to think that if you aren't aware of the rest of the iceberg, it therefore is not likely to exist - a very strange belief system for a self-described engineer. The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse. The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact. Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Skydiver making assertions on invisible evidence? Never. Yeah he does. Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south? I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama. 4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse. The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact. Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract. The guy has had mental issues since at least his college days. No one knows his triggers or what he does when he's not a story in the public. You don't know anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah he does. Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south? I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama. The guy has had mental issues since at least his college days. No one knows his triggers or what he does when he's not a story in the public. You don't know anything. I was being sarcastic. Sky makes things up all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: The short time lag is very easy to explain. He signed the contract and then had buyers remorse. The drug connection is pure speculation. That he was unhappy with the contract, even though he signed it is fact. Based on what we know, the most logical explanation is that his breakdown was triggered by the contract. it's not at all though. that's what everyone is trying to explain to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah he does. Do you remember him saying the reason I don't like Alabama is because I hate the south? I've lived in Atlanta, GA for a total of 20 years and went to college in the state of Alabama. Self-hatred? It’s a known phenomenon. Just now, teef said: it's not at all though. that's what everyone is trying to explain to you. And everyone tried to explain to me that Reuben Foster was guilty and Robert Foster had a 0% chance of making the team. I like my chances of being right about Richie too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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