JohnC Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: The other two guys are not good. You are advocating leaving inferior Quarterbacks on the field. How does that help Josh Allen? It doesn't. They shouldn't force him in there and hey if one of those guys is a nice surprise then let them play out... but if one of those guys is a nice surprise I expect we will be better than 3-5.... even with a tough schedule. Just like last year I see the Bills holding probably 10-12 of our opponents to 20 or fewer. So that means that with good Quarterback play you can win games. But they shouldn't hold Allen back either. This is the NFL. If you are losing and the other guy is better you put him in. All the people expecting him to have a red shirt year are living in cloud cuckoo land as far as I am concerned. If we still had Tyrod then sure, maybe he gets a redshirt year (though they pulled Tyrod for a 5th rounder who can barely play so probably not) but we have two guys with less than stellar NFL resumes. Allen is going to play. I still think he will play sooner rather than later too. My prediction remains week 4 at Green Bay. You are arguing against a fiction you manufactured. You are exaggerating/distorting my position to make it seem that I'm advocating for him to undergo a red shirt year. That is not close to what I have been saying. Even with good qb play from a record standpoint I don't see us being better than 3-5 by the half way point. But that isn't what I am focusing on with this team. I can see this team getting better but not matching last year's record. I believe the defense is going to be solid to good. McDermott is a superb defensive coach and knows how to fit the pieces together. On offense is where I have a lot of trepidation. I don't want to throw the rookie with the big arm right away into the fray. You seem to be more eager to do so. Instead of going in circles and chasing the argument tail we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. Our differences aren't as stark as you seem to think. I definitely want him to play this year but I would prefer it be in the second half of the year rather than the first half. What it comes down to is when he plays will be determined by what he shows in practice. If Allen shows in preseason that he is better than the other qbs then I'm certainly not adverse to letting him start right away. But I don't think that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) I'm assuming 3-5 is because the team couldn't get the offense to score points. That at least what I would assume would be the case based on last season. Well it worked enough to win 3 games. If those 3 games are in a row and are the last 3 games played I would be excited to see things starting to click. Better late then never. At 3-5 I think your just looking for silver linings. Things to look forward to next season. I like think maybe Daboll doesn't get fired and can accomplish things when given little. All bad predictions about the Bills literally come from the fact we didn't have a good offence last year. Turn that around and we will be better then 3-5 right? Edited July 27, 2018 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3-5 is the absolute worst we can be at the halfway point to have a chance at the playoffs again. If we hit this point and have had good QB play then stick with who got us there and do your best to make a good 2nd half run. My guess is that if we are 3-5 it will be because of QB play and a lackluster offense. If this is the case, turn the reigns over to Allen and ride out the lumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Allen in my view is better than AJ, Peterman, and yet I still want to see him sit and develop. I'm hoping that Allen doesn't see the field before week 8 or more, and if he does it means the other two are either injured or terribad. The long Allen sits the better his chances are to properly develop into a quality starter IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I say Blow it Up! Fire the Coaches, GM, everyone with an office or desk at the stadium. Trade away everyone of value for picks and tank the rest of the season. They can then draft a QB 1st overall and be guaranteed future success with all the Draft picks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, JohnC said: You are arguing against a fiction you manufactured. You are exaggerating/distorting my position to make it seem that I'm advocating for him to undergo a red shirt year. That is not close to what I have been saying. Even with good qb play from a record standpoint I don't see us being better than 3-5 by the half way point. But that isn't what I am focusing on with this team. I can see this team getting better but not matching last year's record. I believe the defense is going to be solid to good. McDermott is a superb defensive coach and knows how to fit the pieces together. On offense is where I have a lot of trepidation. I don't want to throw the rookie with the big arm right away into the fray. You seem to be more eager to do so. Instead of going in circles and chasing the argument tail we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. Our differences aren't as stark as you seem to think. I definitely want him to play this year but I would prefer it be in the second half of the year rather than the first half. What it comes down to is when he plays will be determined by what he shows in practice. If Allen shows in preseason that he is better than the other qbs then I'm certainly not adverse to letting him start right away. But I don't think that will happen. I don't know where you get that I am eager for him to be thrown in. I haven't said that once. My confidence in the two infront of him is pretty low though. I don't think either has much of a chance of being good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 16 hours ago, billspro said: If we are 4-4 we have a realistic shot at the playoffs. It is hard to come back from 3-5. There are too many variables like injuries that can create losses. We could go 6-2 down the stretch looking at the schedule. Two games against the Fins and Jets. Bears, Lions, and Jaguars at home are beatable. Last season has temporarily halted my pessimism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Right on course for the annual 6-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) Btw, crazy to think that 6 of the first 8 teams we play had a winning record last year, and the other two could have had a winning record if they had their starting qbs. in short, 3-5 would be something, all things considered. Edited July 27, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't know where you get that I am eager for him to be thrown in. I haven't said that once. My confidence in the two infront of him is pretty low though. I don't think either has much of a chance of being good. You are framing this issue differently than I am. The fundamental issue isn't whether the two qbs will be good or not. It is whether for the short term they will be viable enough to allow this team to reasonably compete and give more time for the Paul Bunyon sized rookie qb more time to prepare. What it comes down to me is what is the best situation for Allen to succeed./develop. Again, I don't think we are on different tracks here. The destination is the same for both of us. But what is in question is the speed of the train. You are more impatient than I am. While I am more receptive to following the speed limit you are more inclined go full throttle. My approach may be more cautious but there is less likely to be a crash. Where we really not far apart. Eeach of us believes that sometime during the season Allen will be a starting qb. Where we disagree is if that doesn't happen you will consider it acatastrophic while I will consider it just part of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, JohnC said: You are framing this issue differently than I am. The fundamental issue isn't whether the two qbs will be good or not. It is whether for the short term they will be viable enough to allow this team to reasonably compete and give more time for the Paul Bunyon sized rookie qb more time to prepare. And I am pretty sure the answer is no ?At least pretty sure on Peterman and think more likely than not on AJ. I am also distinguishing what is "ideal world" from what is reality in the NFL. You don't sit a guy who you think is clearly a better QB. I think it will be apparent pretty early that Allen is much more talented than the other two. Edited July 27, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: And I am pretty sure the answer is no ? I am more confident that each of them can meet the low standard I have set for them. What both of them will be able to do much better than Josh can do right from the start is quickly get rid of the ball. That's one of the primary reasons why I prefer waiting a little longer than you. Let's be clear here. I'm not a zealot on this issue (as you think I am). If Josh Allen decisively beats out his two competitors in training camp and preseason then he should be taking the snaps. The critical and tricky issue is what is best for his development? That will be demonstrated on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: I am more confident that each of them can meet the low standard I have set for them. What both of them will be able to do much better than Josh can do right from the start is quickly get rid of the ball. That's one of the primary reasons why I prefer waiting a little longer than you. Let's be clear here. I'm not a zealot on this issue (as you think I am). If Josh Allen decisively beats out his two competitors in training camp and preseason then he should be taking the snaps. The critical and tricky issue is what is best for his development? That will be demonstrated on the field. Peterman will get the ball out quick for sure........ and then the next play will be our opponents kicking an extra point. I don't think you are being a zealot. I think you have more optimism for AJ and Nate than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Offense is going to be better than people think. Addition by subtraction at a few different positions. IMO they will be no worse than 4-4 at mid point and no worse than 8-8 at end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3-5 is a tough spot but considering the "easier" back half of the schedule 3-5 at least gives the Bills a chance to get to 9-7 and throw their hat in the ring for a wild card. I wouldn't be too upset with a 3-5 start but 4--4 is much more ideal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Peterman will get the ball out quick for sure........ and then the next play will be our opponents kicking an extra point. I don't think you are being a zealot. I think you have more optimism for AJ and Nate than I do. Your eyes are more jaundiced than my eyes. You and many others unfairly (my opinion) continue to use Pererman's disastrous performance in San Diego to cloud your opinion of him. I don't see him as a starting qb in this league. But I do see him carving out a useful niche as a backup. A similar role that Frank Reich carved out in Buffalo. Let's not forget that without Peterman making a couple of critical and tough throws to Benjamin in Arctic conditions in the Colt game the Bills would not have won that game and eventually make the playoffs. So let's be fair and take a more balanced view on what his prospects are as a qb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: Your eyes are more jaundiced than my eyes. You and many others unfairly (my opinion) continue to use Pererman's disastrous performance in San Diego to cloud your opinion of him. I don't see him as a starting qb in this league. But I do see him carving out a useful niche as a backup. A similar role that Frank Reich carved out in Buffalo. Let's not forget that without Peterman making a couple of critical and tough throws to Benjamin in Arctic conditions in the Colt game the Bills would not have won that game and eventually make the playoffs. So let's be fair and take a more balanced view on what his prospects are as a qb. I base my view on Peterman on everything. His college film, his pre-season play, his performance in LA and his performance against the Colts. He is more likely to be out of the league in 2 years than he is to become Frank Reich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I base my view on Peterman on everything. His college film, his pre-season play, his performance in LA and his performance against the Colts. He is more likely to be out of the league in 2 years than he is to become Frank Reich. What you got is what you work with. As I said in a prior post I don't see him as a starter in this league. But I do see him capable of becoming a useful/functional backup. We'll just have to see. Let's put things is perspective here. Your grading of qb prospects is much more rigid than most.If you were a teacher the students would consider you to be a stern taskmaster whose class was to be avoided. You graded Josh Allen as a third round prospect while the league consensus rated him as a first round prospect. Only time will tell whether your rigorous outlier views on many qbs are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 This season is all on the defense. If they play as well as many of us expect, the team will be in every game that the QB doesn't turn the ball over incessantly, which sadly is a reasonable expectation to have with the group behind center. If the team is 3-5 at the turn, I'll give them 9-7. It's a new offence with a need to gel which we should hope to see improvement in throughout the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 The 8th game of the year is the MNF against the Patriots. I’m assuming if we’re 3-5 we just lost to them. Probably just really pissed lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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