Prediction: Nathan Peterman Bills Starting QB Wk. 1 vs. Ravens

[BurpleBull]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I thought he looked mediocre. Some great plays, some bad ones. I grade him as incomplete. He didn't show me anything I didn't expect him to do.

 

Furthermore, this is coming from Brady Quinn. 

 

Former Browns' QB envy I think. 

[transplantbillsfan]

36 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Minority on TBD maybe. I'll take that as a badge of honor. The reports today seem to back up my analysis, so whatever 

 

Links?

[MDH]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:The Bills didn’t use a 1st and 2 2nds to have him throwing to Robert Foster. He is going to start getting to play with quality players. He 100%, unequivocally is their guy. They will continue to develop him but what is happening around him isn’t impacting his development schedule. They aren’t going to keep him as a number 3 because Peterman and McCarron played well. His development isn’t tied to their play. They have a plan for him and are executing it.

 

He should get playing time when 1) He has out played the other QBs on the roster or 2) when the other QBs on the roster have played themselves out of that roll.  Neither has come close to happening yet. Frankly,  I don’t care if it ever does. I just want one of the three Bills signal callers to mature into something special and I don’t  give a rats’ ass which one it is.

 

I’m of the opinion that Allen’s physical gifts give him only a slight edge over the other two. I’m also of the opinion that I don’t care where he was drafted, the best players see the field, period.

[Alphadawg7]

Lets stop playing Biased arguments here and keep this down the line in reality:

1. Peterman had one good drive.  
   1. Pros:  Played with confidence, used his legs to extend plays and put the ball in some good spots with nice touch.  
   2. Cons:  Puts a lot of air on too many balls, and in the regular season when the game is playing faster and Defenses have more tape, they will time those throws for deflections and make turnovers easier.  
2. Peterman did not have a good 2nd drive.
   1. The interception was a poorly thrown pass that was late, high, and behind the RB and he put in the worst place he could that leads to easy deflected passes for INTs.  
   2. You would like to see the RB still find a way to bring that ball in, but its a difficult play to make. 
   3. Both NP and RB share the blame, but I would shade it 75% on NP and 25% on the RB.  
   4. Anyone giving NP a pass on that play is biased.

Additionally AJM put together a nice performance as well.  

1. Pros:  Looked poised, showed good vision, and used the field well driving us down to get a score.  Has a better arm too.
2. Cons:  Hard to gauge given he got to deal with the 2nd unit defense instead of the first unit defense.  The one sack he took he held onto the ball way too long IMO.

Josh Allen then gets to play the 2nd half.

1. Pros:  CANNON for an arm and kid showed some wheels too.  Looks poised and confident in the pocket and not afraid to make throws most QB's not named Favre would even consider to attempt.  
   1. Kid also got saddled with crap performance from the OL, RB, and WR's.  Foster (a kid I liked drafting) disspointed multiple times, and Ford killed him too.  OL was a revolving door.  Yet he still put up good yards and a TD and if not for bad play by Foster should have had two insane bomb TD passes.  
2. Cons:  Same pro can be a con...kids got so much arm talent and confidence in it he is going to try at times to make ill advised throws that will eventually lead to big mistakes.  Needs to learn to harness that talent at the right times and not just heave throws from bad positioning in jump ball situations so often.  

All in all, great showing for the first preseason game.  I still say based on what I saw on the field last night that AJM is the favorite to start.  NP just does not have the tool set IMO to succeed consistently as a NFL starting QB.  Those soft passes are going to start getting timed by the Defenses and I think he is going to be prone to incompletes and turnovers as a result.  AJM showed everything NP did, but with more arm talent.  

 

Allen to me deserves at least 2 drives with the ones/twos this week.  AJM should start but find a way to get Allen in for a couple drives with at least the 2's if not the 1's.  Let him have a chance with something other than scrubs before we decide he is not in the race.  Odds are, AJM or NP will still start week 1, but lets see where this kid is at and how close he is or isnt.  

[BurpleBull]

Although all three QBs performed well, Peterman was the one in starting QB form last night.

 

He legitimately appears to be more than backup material.

[BullBuchanan]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Lets stop playing Biased arguments here and keep this down the line in reality:

1. Peterman had one good drive.  
   1. Pros:  Played with confidence, used his legs to extend plays and put the ball in some good spots with nice touch.  
   2. Cons:  Puts a lot of air on too many balls, and in the regular season when the game is playing faster and Defenses have more tape, they will time those throws for deflections and make turnovers easier.  
2. Peterman did not have a good 2nd drive.
   1. The interception was a poorly thrown pass that was late, high, and behind the RB and he put in the worst place he could that leads to easy deflected passes for INTs.  
   2. You would like to see the RB still find a way to bring that ball in, but its a difficult play to make. 
   3. Both NP and RB share the blame, but I would shade it 75% on NP and 25% on the RB.  
   4. Anyone giving NP a pass on that play is biased.

Additionally AJM put together a nice performance as well.  

1. Pros:  Looked poised, showed good vision, and used the field well driving us down to get a score.  Has a better arm too.
2. Cons:  Hard to gauge given he got to deal with the 2nd unit defense instead of the first unit defense.  The one sack he took he held onto the ball way too long IMO.

Josh Allen then gets to play the 2nd half.

1. Pros:  CANNON for an arm and kid showed some wheels too.  Looks poised and confident in the pocket and not afraid to make throws most QB's not named Favre would even consider to attempt.  
   1. Kid also got saddled with crap performance from the OL, RB, and WR's.  Foster (a kid I liked drafting) disspointed multiple times, and Ford killed him too.  OL was a revolving door.  Yet he still put up good yards and a TD and if not for bad play by Foster should have had two insane bomb TD passes.  
2. Cons:  Same pro can be a con...kids got so much arm talent and confidence in it he is going to try at times to make ill advised throws that will eventually lead to big mistakes.  Needs to learn to harness that talent at the right times and not just heave throws from bad positioning in jump ball situations so often.  

All in all, great showing for the first preseason game.  I still say based on what I saw on the field last night that AJM is the favorite to start.  NP just does not have the tool set IMO to succeed consistently as a NFL starting QB.  Those soft passes are going to start getting timed by the Defenses and I think he is going to be prone to incompletes and turnovers as a result.  AJM showed everything NP did, but with more arm talent.  

 

Allen to me deserves at least 2 drives with the ones/twos this week.  AJM should start but find a way to get Allen in for a couple drives with at least the 2's if not the 1's.  Let him have a chance with something other than scrubs before we decide he is not in the race.  Odds are, AJM or NP will still start week 1, but lets see where this kid is at and how close he is or isnt.  

Minor quibbles, but good synopsis. I would add that Allen needs to learn not to throw fastballs on 5 yard hitch plays, so that balls are easier for his players to catch. Having power is a great thing, but it's no good if you don't have control. He used touch on a couple of passes which was nice to see, but maximum power all the time is what held Favre back from being even better than he should have been in his career.

I don't think Allen should be considered a legitimate candidate for the competition this year because the guys above him are not disasters. I would rather he focus on getting better throughout the year than trying to figure out how to play the game live with all the added pressure. He doesn't really help us reach our goals this season, so let the starters get the time with the ones.

Edited August 10, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[BurpleBull]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Lets stop playing Biased arguments here and keep this down the line in reality:

1. Peterman had one good drive.  
   1. Pros:  Played with confidence, used his legs to extend plays and put the ball in some good spots with nice touch.  
   2. Cons:  Puts a lot of air on too many balls, and in the regular season when the game is playing faster and Defenses have more tape, they will time those throws for deflections and make turnovers easier.  
2. Peterman did not have a good 2nd drive.
   1. The interception was a poorly thrown pass that was late, high, and behind the RB and he put in the worst place he could that leads to easy deflected passes for INTs.  
   2. You would like to see the RB still find a way to bring that ball in, but its a difficult play to make. 
   3. Both NP and RB share the blame, but I would shade it 75% on NP and 25% on the RB.  
   4. Anyone giving NP a pass on that play is biased.

Additionally AJM put together a nice performance as well.  

1. Pros:  Looked poised, showed good vision, and used the field well driving us down to get a score.  Has a better arm too.
2. Cons:  Hard to gauge given he got to deal with the 2nd unit defense instead of the first unit defense.  The one sack he took he held onto the ball way too long IMO.

Josh Allen then gets to play the 2nd half.

1. Pros:  CANNON for an arm and kid showed some wheels too.  Looks poised and confident in the pocket and not afraid to make throws most QB's not named Favre would even consider to attempt.  
   1. Kid also got saddled with crap performance from the OL, RB, and WR's.  Foster (a kid I liked drafting) disspointed multiple times, and Ford killed him too.  OL was a revolving door.  Yet he still put up good yards and a TD and if not for bad play by Foster should have had two insane bomb TD passes.  
2. Cons:  Same pro can be a con...kids got so much arm talent and confidence in it he is going to try at times to make ill advised throws that will eventually lead to big mistakes.  Needs to learn to harness that talent at the right times and not just heave throws from bad positioning in jump ball situations so often.  

All in all, great showing for the first preseason game.  I still say based on what I saw on the field last night that AJM is the favorite to start.  NP just does not have the tool set IMO to succeed consistently as a NFL starting QB.  Those soft passes are going to start getting timed by the Defenses and I think he is going to be prone to incompletes and turnovers as a result.  AJM showed everything NP did, but with more arm talent.  

 

Allen to me deserves at least 2 drives with the ones/twos this week.  AJM should start but find a way to get Allen in for a couple drives with at least the 2's if not the 1's.  Let him have a chance with something other than scrubs before we decide he is not in the race.  Odds are, AJM or NP will still start week 1, but lets see where this kid is at and how close he is or isnt.  

 

Without reading the entire post I would guess that you favor Allen and don't favor Peterman very much based on the sheer number of points under Peterman vs. the other two.

 

Apparently Allen's strengths are his only weakness, like some enigmatic superhero out of a comic book.

 

You say anyone giving Peterman a pass on the interception is biased, but the same can be assumed about you as things pertained to Allen last night. 

 

I haven't gone out of my way to mention Allen's flaws or any of the QBs, but Allen was far from flawless and it wasn't all related to him having confidence in his arm.

 

You intentionally or unintentionally left out that one play, where he extended the play running around behind the line of scrimmage while being pursued intensely, and instead of killing the play when realizing there was nothing more to be gained, he recklessly flicked the ball, in the direction of the defense and receivers while being taken to the ground, putting the ball up for grabs.

 

This reckless play is what Allen was also criticized for in college.

 

We can't pretend like there aren't mental hurdles that Allen must overcome, if to ever be entrusted by McDermott to carry the offense.

 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Without reading the entire post I would guess that you favor Allen and don't favor Peterman very much based on the sheer number of points under Peterman vs. the other two.

 

Apparently Allen's strengths are his only weakness, like some enigmatic superhero out of a comic book.

 

You say anyone giving Peterman a pass on the interception is biased, but the same can be assumed about you as things pertained to Allen last night. 

 

I haven't gone out of my way to mention Allen's flaws or any of the QBs, but Allen was far from flawless and it wasn't all related to him having confidence in his arm.

 

You intentionally or unintentionally left out that one play, where he extended the play running around behind the line of scrimmage while being pursued intensely, and instead of killing the play when realizing there was nothing more to be gained, he recklessly flicked the ball, in the direction of the defense and receivers while being taken to the ground, putting the ball up for grabs.

 

This reckless play is what Allen was also criticized for in college.

 

We can't pretend like there aren't mental hurdles that Allen must overcome, if to ever be entrusted by McDermott to carry the offense.

 

 

 

It wasn't a good play obviously but the ONLY reason he did that was because it was fourth and two. If he kills the play we lose the ball.

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It wasn't a good play obviously but the ONLY reason he did that was because it was fourth and two. If he kills the play we lose the ball.

 

Loss the ball anyway and it could've resulted in a larger deficit for the team.

 

It wasn't the last play of the game if I remember correctly, that's the type of play you expect to be attempted in desperation if it's your last shot in the game, to extend a drive.

 

You can't trivialize that play because he was known to make those same plays in college...and I'm sure all of those didn't come on 4th-and-2.

 

He hadn't shown that in minicamp, training camp, or for much of the game, but it showed itself eventually.

 

If that is still a part of his game, he has to work it out of his system just as Peterman had to work his flaws out of his.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by BurpleBull

[Aussie Joe]

Interesting debate... I’m still no closer to knowing who the Week 1 starter will be..

 

One thing I’m pretty sure of- I don’t see Peterman getting cut or on the Practice Squad in the short term...

[suorangefan4]

6 hours ago, Figster said:

50 and 53 are not exactly the same and the number I have on Peterman is 49.

 

When 55 is the preferred velocity for an NFL QB wouldn't you agree that every MPH slower makes a difference when it comes to limitations?

 

Peterman puts allot of air under most of his throws where as A J by way of example makes higher velocity throws on a regular basis.

 

In comparison to Peterman/ 49 Josh Allen can throw 15 to 20 MPH faster.

 

You can have success with lower velocity QB, of that I agree, but with lower velocity comes limitations in my humble opinion.

 

Deshaun Watson threw 45 MPH (4 MPH worse than Peterman). At the combine Peterman thew 53 MPH. Watson 49 MPH.

 

I don't see anyone saying Watson's arm strength sucks.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by suorangefan4

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Allen played ok.   he threaded the needle for the TD which was good bit also a dangerous play.  

 

Playing 3rd stringers won’t win him the starting spot because he looked OK.  

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Minor quibbles, but good synopsis. I would add that Allen needs to learn not to throw fastballs on 5 yard hitch plays, so that balls are easier for his players to catch. Having power is a great thing, but it's no good if you don't have control. He used touch on a couple of passes which was nice to see, but maximum power all the time is what held Favre back from being even better than he should have been in his career.

I don't think Allen should be considered a legitimate candidate for the competition this year because the guys above him are not disasters. I would rather he focus on getting better throughout the year than trying to figure out how to play the game live with all the added pressure. He doesn't really help us reach our goals this season, so let the starters get the time with the ones.

 

Good adds, and I agree with all this too

Edited August 10, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, MDH said:

 

He should get playing time when 1) He has out played the other QBs on the roster or 2) when the other QBs on the roster have played themselves out of that roll.  Neither has come close to happening yet. Frankly,  I don’t care if it ever does. I just want one of the three Bills signal callers to mature into something special and I don’t  give a rats’ ass which one it is.

 

I’m of the opinion that Allen’s physical gifts give him only a slight edge over the other two. I’m also of the opinion that I don’t care where he was drafted, the best players see the field, period.

There has never, ever, ever been a guy that was taken with a top 10 pick (and 2 2nds) that a team isn’t moving into the lineup. It has literally never happened and isn’t happening here. His development is independent of them. Alex Smith was an MVP candidate for much of last year and is in Washington now. That’s the way it works. You ALWAYS play your guy. As soon as Allen is ready we are going to see him.

 

FWIW, I had an interesting conversation with my brother today who was a college QB and a high school OC. He said that the main reason that Allen has to move up the depth chart now is so that you can develop his flaws. Allen playing behind a sieve of an OL is never going to give him a chance to work on his footwork or his progressions. Every play is a broken play. Yesterday looked like Allen at Wyoming. He was infinitely more talented than the guys around him and had to play playground football. That isn’t what the Bills need to see to accurately evaluate him. That is the biggest task. The investment that they made in him dictates that he will be given the job at some point. They need to do their part to make sure that he is ready for that point.

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There has never, ever, ever been a guy that was taken with a top 10 pick (and 2 2nds) that a team isn’t moving into the lineup. It has literally never happened and isn’t happening here. His development is independent of them. Alex Smith was an MVP candidate for much of last year and is in Washington now. That’s the way it works. You ALWAYS play your guy. As soon as Allen is ready we are going to see him.

 

FWIW, I had an interesting conversation with my brother today who was a college QB and a high school OC. He said that the main reason that Allen has to move up the depth chart now is so that you can develop his flaws. Allen playing behind a sieve of an OL is never going to give him a chance to work on his footwork or his progressions. Every play is a broken play. Yesterday looked like Allen at Wyoming. He was infinitely more talented than the guys around him and had to play playground football. That isn’t what the Bills need to see to accurately evaluate him. That is the biggest task. The investment that they made in him dictates that he will be given the job at some point. They need to do their part to make sure that he is ready for that point.

 

Allen was playing behind the same O-line that McCarron was playing behind for the most part, if I'm not mistaken.

 

.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Allen was playing behind the same O-line that McCarron was playing behind for the most part, if I'm not mistaken.

 

.

He played primarily behind the 3rd OL. They have 15 linemen in camp I think (or around that). The 3rd string is guys like Redmond, Boettger and de Beer. The 2nd string is Newhouse, Bodine, Teller and co. They will likely keep 8 OL IMO. With that being said, it is almost certain that none of the guys on the 3rd string will be in the NFL. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Rocky Landing]

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What do you disagree with from my post? 

- I said that he played exceptionally well.

- I said that press man is kryptonite for someone that throws hitches and slants on a 3 step drop. (That is why I don’t believe that he can succeed). 

 

I’m not sure that either of those points is debatable? If you disagree with them please explain why. 

Can you explain this to me?

[transplantbillsfan]

22 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not going to name them, because it's not my job to understand things for you. The tape is in the thread. He showed he can throw a football far, which we all knew, and showed some mobility. great.

 

Is throwing the ball 60 yards in the air impressive? Sure, why not. I'd be more impressed if he put them in bounds where his receivers could catch them. Foster is bad, but knowing that is something QBs are judged on. I don't really care that much about 60 yard bombs, though. i care about passes that move the chains, maintain possession and put us in a position to own the game. hail mary passes don't do that. 

 

Funny that you literally only refer to one of 3 bombs Allen threw to Foster. The other 2 consisted of a fantastic throw that Foster was looking back at the QB for 20-30 yards while running, which slowed him down just enough for the ball to graze his fingertips. The next was a play where Foster basically just stopped running at one point because he thought Allen was sacked.

 

I watched the game a 2nd time today. Allen's performance really was excellent. Please join reality.

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Of the 3, I thought he looked most distressed off the snap, and his feet never looked solid. I thought the game looked faster for him than the other two.

 

7 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

Although all three QBs performed well, Peterman was the one in starting QB form last night.

 

He legitimately appears to be more than backup material.

 

The difficulty of preseason though is separating appearance from reality... Peterman was an All-star last preseason, too... remember?

 

I'm okay if he ends up starting, but his ball velocity still looks like something DBs salivate over. His sideline passes will forever terrify me... I think I have PTSD just from watching him last year.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Allen played ok.   he threaded the needle for the TD which was good bit also a dangerous play.  

 

Playing 3rd stringers won’t win him the starting spot because he looked OK.  

 

 

 

No surprise that Peterman's closet defender is taking jabs at a rookie who had an excellent 1st performance.

 

Too bad.

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There has never, ever, ever been a guy that was taken with a top 10 pick (and 2 2nds) that a team isn’t moving into the lineup. It has literally never happened and isn’t happening here. His development is independent of them. Alex Smith was an MVP candidate for much of last year and is in Washington now. That’s the way it works. You ALWAYS play your guy. As soon as Allen is ready we are going to see him.

 

FWIW, I had an interesting conversation with my brother today who was a college QB and a high school OC. He said that the main reason that Allen has to move up the depth chart now is so that you can develop his flaws. Allen playing behind a sieve of an OL is never going to give him a chance to work on his footwork or his progressions. Every play is a broken play. Yesterday looked like Allen at Wyoming. He was infinitely more talented than the guys around him and had to play playground football. That isn’t what the Bills need to see to accurately evaluate him. That is the biggest task. The investment that they made in him dictates that he will be given the job at some point. They need to do their part to make sure that he is ready for that point.

 

Thank you and thank your brother!!!

 

Allen behind a real OL and let's actually give him a chance to work on these fundamentals.

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Allen was playing behind the same O-line that McCarron was playing behind for the most part, if I'm not mistaken.

 

.

 

You're mistaken.