Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Figster said: 50 and 53 are not exactly the same and the number I have on Peterman is 49. When 55 is the preferred velocity for an NFL QB wouldn't you agree that every MPH slower makes a difference when it comes to limitations? Peterman puts allot of air under most of his throws where as A J by way of example makes higher velocity throws on a regular basis. In comparison to Peterman/ 49 Josh Allen can throw 15 to 20 MPH faster. You can have success with lower velocity QB, of that I agree, but with lower velocity comes limitations in my humble opinion. The biggest thing we saw from Peterman was deeper attempts that came out just as fast as the shorter attempts. His ball speed won't matter if he uses the whole field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: There has never, ever, ever been a guy that was taken with a top 10 pick (and 2 2nds) that a team isn’t moving into the lineup. It has literally never happened and isn’t happening here. His development is independent of them. Alex Smith was an MVP candidate for much of last year and is in Washington now. That’s the way it works. You ALWAYS play your guy. As soon as Allen is ready we are going to see him. FWIW, I had an interesting conversation with my brother today who was a college QB and a high school OC. He said that the main reason that Allen has to move up the depth chart now is so that you can develop his flaws. Allen playing behind a sieve of an OL is never going to give him a chance to work on his footwork or his progressions. Every play is a broken play. Yesterday looked like Allen at Wyoming. He was infinitely more talented than the guys around him and had to play playground football. That isn’t what the Bills need to see to accurately evaluate him. That is the biggest task. The investment that they made in him dictates that he will be given the job at some point. They need to do their part to make sure that he is ready for that point. Like Mahomes? lol. I didn't even have to go back more than 1 draft to shatter that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Like Mahomes? lol. I didn't even have to go back more than 1 draft to shatter that statement. Are you suggesting that the Chiefs signed UDFA Chase Litton to be their franchise QB? Or, are they handing the reigns to Chad Henne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Are you suggesting that the Chiefs signed UDFA Chase Litton to be their franchise QB? Or, are they handing the reigns to Chad Henne? no. ESL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: no. ESL? Maybe I'm missing something. How does bringing up Mahomes "shatter" Kirby's statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: Like Mahomes? lol. I didn't even have to go back more than 1 draft to shatter that statement. You have a reading comprehension problem. Kirby mentioned Alex Smith as the MVP candidate last year specifically to emphasize the outlier that situation was. Nathan Peterman is not Alex Smith... Neither is AJ McCarron, for that matter. Translation... Allen will very very likely start meaningful regular season games in 2018. 1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said: Maybe I'm missing something. How does bringing up Mahomes "shatter" Kirby's statement? It doesn't. He has a reading comprehension problem and didn't even understand what was a pretty straightforward post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said: You have a reading comprehension problem. Kirby mentioned Alex Smith as the MVP candidate last year specifically to emphasize the outlier that situation was. Nathan Peterman is not Alex Smith... Neither is AJ McCarron, for that matter. Translation... Allen will very very likely start meaningful regular season games in 2018. I bet he doesn't. You should hope he doesn't. He's miles away from ready for that responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: Can you explain this to me? Sure, press man won’t allow the receivers to get a free release. You are controlling the WR right from the snap so it disrupts a rythym passing game because in theory it takes the receiver a different amount of time to get to that spot. It makes it extremely difficult to throw bubble screens, hitches and especially slants. Peterman’s strength is that he delivers the ball on time (primarily on those types of throws). If a team is playing 7 yards off the LOS and the receivers get a free release they get to those spots on time. That won’t be the case if you are pressing on the outside. If Peterman proves that he can consistently make throws like the TD throw to Benjamin he can keep teams honest. That is how you can beat it. If you beat the press off the line you can make plays over the top. You can make some big plays. It is crucial that the receivers can consistently beat that jam to make that happen. Does that make sense? 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: Like Mahomes? lol. I didn't even have to go back more than 1 draft to shatter that statement. I’m not sure if you are trolling or not? The Chiefs did exactly that with Mahomes. He moved up to 2 on the depth chart and then when they felt he was ready they moved on from Alex Smith (who is pretty good). I am in no way saying that Allen has to start (although it is possible IMO). They have to make a decision between Peterman and McCarron soon so that Allen is playing behind NFL OL & with NFL receivers. It is entirely possible that none of the OL or pass catchers that he played with Thursday make the roster. If you want to work on his base (which is probably his biggest flaw) you aren’t going to be able to do it when he is under constant pressure. The first step in his development, just like Mahomes, was getting his feet wet. He passed that test. The next step in his development is working on his flaws. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Sure, press man won’t allow the receivers to get a free release. You are controlling the WR right from the snap so it disrupts a rythym passing game because in theory it takes the receiver a different amount of time to get to that spot. It makes it extremely difficult to throw bubble screens, hitches and especially slants. Peterman’s strength is that he delivers the ball on time (primarily on those types of throws). If a team is playing 7 yards off the LOS and the receivers get a free release they get to those spots on time. That won’t be the case if you are pressing on the outside. If Peterman proves that he can consistently make throws like the TD throw to Benjamin he can keep teams honest. That is how you can beat it. If you beat the press off the line you can make plays over the top. You can make some big plays. It is crucial that the receivers can consistently beat that jam to make that happen. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 16 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: I bet he doesn't. You should hope he doesn't. He's miles away from ready for that responsibility. Big words. I'm gonna have to directly quote Bill the Bard here Wanna bet Allen doesn't start a meaningful game this year? Let's bet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Yes, it does. Thank you. One more thing to add is teams are trying to bring pressure up front when in press as well. They don’t want to give the receivers time to break free and the QB the time to hold the ball until they are. You are trying to make the QB get it out instantly while taking away those quick route concepts (quick slants, screens, etc..). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Links? Wgr550.com. That was hard.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Just now, BurpleBull said: Much like 49 mph is not exactly the number Peterman throws with. Both Peterman and McCarron are listed as throwing with the exact, same velocity---53 mph. Every website I've visited, last month and recently, lists the same numbers. My guess is that you brought your own radar gun to the NFL Combine. Starting to feel like we've reached the point where people are willing to just flat-out lie to make their points and prove themselves correct. Ball velocity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Ball velocity https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/03/13/greg-gabriel-is-a-quarterbacks-velocity-an-indicator-of-how-good-he-will-be-in-the-nfl/a93ef5p/ http://pass2win.com/ball-velocity-exposing-the-power-qb.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/03/13/greg-gabriel-is-a-quarterbacks-velocity-an-indicator-of-how-good-he-will-be-in-the-nfl/a93ef5p/ http://pass2win.com/ball-velocity-exposing-the-power-qb.html So long story short is there are conflicting reports. I don’t think that anyone accused you of fabricating anything. Unfortunately, you said that people were “flat out lying” when in fact they were citing the incredibly well-respected Ourlads. No one was lying. FWIW, neither of those numbers is all that relevant. They aren’t strong armed QBs. They have below average arms but their success isn’t predicated on arm strength. Edited August 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 5:13 PM, Kelly the Dog said: It wasn't a good play obviously but the ONLY reason he did that was because it was fourth and two. If he kills the play we lose the ball. One also doesn't know what Allen was instructed by the coaches on that play. There were a couple of play calls that were probably NOT what would be called during the regular season, I hope because our coaches wanted to evaluate players in specific game situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 5:08 PM, BurpleBull said: Without reading the entire post I would .... ....suggest that you move away from the reply button until you actually read the entire post and attempt to parse its meaning. Just a suggestion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: So long story short is there are conflicting reports. I don’t think that anyone accused you of fabricating anything. Unfortunately, you said that people were “flat out lying” when in fact they were citing the incredibly well-respected Ourlads. No one was lying. FWIW, neither of those numbers is all that relevant. They aren’t strong armed QBs. They have below average arms but their success isn’t predicated on arm strength. 48 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Starting to feel like we've reached the point where people are willing to just flat-out lie to make their points and prove themselves correct. I didn't say people were flat-out lying. I was already aware of the link you provided and its content before you posted it to me, so I certainly wouldn't accuse the poster of fabricating those numbers, with knowledge of that info, if you're suggesting I was accusing him of fabricating those numbers. 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ....suggest that you move away from the reply button until you actually read the entire post and attempt to parse its meaning. Just a suggestion though. So does he favor Peterman or Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: I didn't say people were flat-out lying. I was already aware of the link you provided and its content before you posted it to me, so I certainly wouldn't accuse the poster of fabricating those numbers, with knowledge of that info, if you're suggesting I was accusing him of fabricating those numbers. So does he favor Peterman or Allen? That’s EXACTLY what you said. Just own it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s EXACTLY what you said. Just own it and move on. Before this veers off course... Moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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