Why Is Our Government Putting People In Cages?

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Mountains of it. The southern border is an important highway of human traffickers, particularly of children. If you doubt it, go for a ride along with ICE in San Diego or Los Angeles a few times. See what you see, then come back here and cry about children being put in "cages".

 

I'd feel better if they were put in cages.  What kind of monsters have we become that we're incarcerating children in Walmart?

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, peace out said:

 

Savage stuff here

 

Those children are screaming because they were ripped from the arms of their sex traffickers, dont you know?

 

Everyone in this thread should listen to the Pro Publica audio. It's really bad. There is no excuse for this.

[TakeYouToTasker]

6 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Is there valid proof of this ? 

 

Yes.

 

First, two article, one from a left leaning site, one from a right leaning site:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ana-davila/drug-cartels-where-human-trafficking-and-human-smuggling-meet-today_b_7588408.html

 

https://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02/the-trafficking-of-children-at-the-mexican-border-001504697.html

 

Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Mexico

 

Various government and international organizations:

 

https://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/library/2011/human-trafficking-sex-tourism-and-child-exploitation-southern-border

 

https://www.unicefusa.org/mission/protect/trafficking

 

http://www.ecpat.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/Factsheet_Mexico.pdf

 

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/human-trafficking

[IDBillzFan]

7 minutes ago, peace out said:

Of course not.

 

Wow. Are you SURE there is no human sex trafficking coming in from Mexico?

 

Are you really sure?

 

Or are you actually willing to close your eyes to the sex traffickers because you need another reason to whine about Trump?

 

Talk about disgusting.

 

 

2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Yes.

 

First, two article, one from a left leaning site, one from a right leaning site:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ana-davila/drug-cartels-where-human-trafficking-and-human-smuggling-meet-today_b_7588408.html

 

That doesn't matter to peace out because he needs a new Trump outrage today.

[TakeYouToTasker]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Those children are screaming because they were ripped from the arms of their sex traffickers, dont you know?

 

Everyone in this thread should listen to the Pro Publica audio. It's really bad. There is no excuse for this. 

 

They are screaming because they are scared.  The traffickers groom them, and normalize their mistreatment.  They have been in transit with their traffickers for some time, and it is in the best interests of the traffickers to handle their captives in a way that makes their chains feel light, or non-existent, in order to prevent their detection. 

 

This is a very real evil. 

 

Stare it in the face.

 

This is not to say that some portion of these children are being removed from their loving parents.  Of course they are.  But they are undocumented.  There is no way of knowing which are which, and the child sex trafficking problem is very real.  The people coming here are doing so illegally, so detention and separation is an unfortunate step in sorting the wheat from the chafe.

 

It comes down to protecting the most vulnerable among us from very real predators.  That's where the lines are being drawn.  I'm on the side of the children.  Whose side are you on?

Edited June 18, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Yes.

 

First, two article, one from a left leaning site, one from a right leaning site:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ana-davila/drug-cartels-where-human-trafficking-and-human-smuggling-meet-today_b_7588408.html

 

https://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02/the-trafficking-of-children-at-the-mexican-border-001504697.html

 

Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Mexico

 

Various government and international organizations:

 

https://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/library/2011/human-trafficking-sex-tourism-and-child-exploitation-southern-border

 

https://www.unicefusa.org/mission/protect/trafficking

 

http://www.ecpat.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/Factsheet_Mexico.pdf

 

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/human-trafficking

 

Where is the proof that the children being separated at the border are being trafficked? Of course human trafficking is an issue and of course we should work to prevent it. But as you know we currently have a zero-tolerance policy wherein every child is separated from their parents for weeks or months at a time regardless of their situation. Is that how you think the US government should act? Treat every adult like a human trafficker without even pretending to investigate?

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Those children are screaming because they were ripped from the arms of their sex traffickers, dont you know?

 

Everyone in this thread should listen to the Pro Publica audio. It's really bad. There is no excuse for this.

 

Happy. There are kids right now, in your town, being held against their will and sold into sexual slavery - as young as 6 months old. Not just a handful of them either, dozens if not hundreds. Right now. In your town. Probably within a ten mile radius of where you are this moment. 

 

You know how the "feeder" system works? Know how they get most of their stock in and out of the country? Know how many state and local agencies who are charged with protecting children look the other way?

 

This isn't about politics. It's about saving children. If you actually care about saving children and helping families who have been torn a part, I PROMISE you can help loads by getting involved in your own community helping to combat this very real plague. At the very least you can inform yourself of the realities, and then maybe you'll understand why this empty virtue signaling going on in this thread is doing the opposite of showing compassion for children at risk. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

They are screaming because they are scared.  The traffickers groom them, and normalize their mistreatment.  They have been in transit with their traffickers for some time, and it is in the best interests of the traffickers to handle their captives in a way that makes their chains feel light, or non-existent, in order to prevent their detection. 

 

This is a very real evil. 

 

Stare it in the face.

 

You're literally making this all up. There is zero evidence that the children being separated right now belong to human traffickers. I guarantee that if that were the case the administration would be touting the statistics, "X% of these separated children are actually just trafficking victims," instead of vaguely talking about deterrence.

 

I mean come on, you of all people are now advocating that the US government treat every single adult as a trafficking criminal without investigating?? You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals? I would love to see you apply that principle everywhere else.

Edited June 18, 2018 by HappyDays

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Where is the proof that the children being separated at the border are being trafficked? Of course human trafficking is an issue and of course we should work to prevent it. But as you know we currently have a zero-tolerance policy wherein every child is separated from their parents for weeks or months at a time regardless of their situation. Is that how you think the US government should act? Treat every adult like a human trafficker without even pretending to investigate?

 

The insanity in this thread is nauseating. It's too bad TBD has a subforum devoted to racism, the alt-right, and gaslighting.

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

You're literally making this all up. There is zero evidence that the children being separated right now belong to human traffickers. I guarantee that if that were the case the administration would be touting the statistics, X% of these separated children are actually just trafficking victims.

 

I mean come on, you of all people are now advocating that the US government treat every single adult as a trafficking criminal without investigating?? You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals? I would love to see you apply that principle everywhere else.

 

It's pathetic and not worth responding to.

[Albwan]

15 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

See, here's the unfortunate side-effect of brainlessly screaming Trump is a racist Nazi in the pocket of Russians five times a day...you have absolutely no leverage over him, because you've spent two years teaching him you're not worth paying attention to. 

 

Your hyperbolic outrage has made any attempt at real outrage completely meaningless.  Good job, progressives.

but, its entertaining as HELL 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Where is the proof that the children being separated at the border are being trafficked? 

 

The entire point of the policy is we don't know who these people are. It's a fact that there are large numbers of children trafficked across the southern border every year. Many are brought over by mules who pretend to be parents to these kids. 

 

Is every person crossing the border a trafficker? No. Is every person seeking assylum a trafficker? No. Separating the adults from the children until relations and safety can be worked out is much more compassionate than the alternative considering the numbers. 

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're literally making this all up. 

 

Incorrect.

[Albwan]

chelsea clinton says to open the border to everyone !!     lalalala

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, peace out said:

 

The insanity in this thread is nauseating. It's too bad TBD has a subforum devoted to racism, the alt-right, and gaslighting.

 

And mysogony and homophobia.  And guns.  And Trump.  

 

You should tell SDS.  I'm sure he'd shut down such a board and ban everyone here.

[TakeYouToTasker]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're literally making this all up. There is zero evidence that the children being separated right now belong to human traffickers. I guarantee that if that were the case the administration would be touting the statistics, "X% of these separated children are actually just trafficking victims," instead of vaguely talking about deterrence.

 

I mean come on, you of all people are now advocating that the US government treat every single adult as a trafficking criminal without investigating?? You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals? I would love to see you apply that principle everywhere else.

 

Everyone entering the country illegally is a criminal.  This is what gives us the ability to vet the undocumented, return children to their parents, and break up trafficking rings.

 

Do the research on this.  I know you haven't done it, because you're posting emotional screeds.  The Administration is fighting something horrible and systemic in this regard that has foundations and support within our government. 

 

Learn how trafficking works.  Learn.

 

It is pure darkness given form.

 

Greg is very right.  You have children being trafficked and held within a 5-10 mile radius of where you are standing right now. 

 

Learn!!!  Stare the evil in it's face.

Edited June 18, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

The entire point of the policy is we don't know who these people are. It's a fact that there are large numbers of children trafficked across the southern border every year. Many are brought over by mules who pretend to be parents to these kids. 

 

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're literally making this all up. There is zero evidence that the children being separated right now belong to human traffickers. I guarantee that if that were the case the administration would be touting the statistics, "X% of these separated children are actually just trafficking victims," instead of vaguely talking about deterrence.

 

I mean come on, you of all people are now advocating that the US government treat every single adult as a trafficking criminal without investigating?? You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals? I would love to see you apply that principle everywhere else.

 

Well, you were arguing above to treat them all as asylum seekers, which is just as thoughtless.

[Albwan]

11 minutes ago, peace out said:

 

The insanity in this thread is nauseating. It's too bad TBD has a subforum devoted to racism, the alt-right, and gaslighting.

 

It's pathetic and not worth responding to.

democrats do a great job gaslighting themselves...

 

Also we have hit the bottom with this post when people fall back to "you're all racists"

Edited June 18, 2018 by Albwan

[DC Tom]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

 

You're advocating enabling child trafficking...for the sake of the children?  

 

Yes, there's a valid argument to be had about presumption of guilt or innocence vs. the safety of children.  You're not making it, though.

[Deranged Rhino]

I know people involved in these raids personally. Have spent time with them. Seen the evidence they collected in the aftermath of several raids. 

 

Guess what they discovered about how a lot of these kids got into the country? 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announces-results-of-operation-cross-country-xi

http://abc7.com/hundreds-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown-in-ca/3007899/

http://fox5sandiego.com/2018/01/31/29-men-arrested-in-sex-trafficking-sting/

 

[ALF]

19 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Mountains of it. The southern border is an important highway of human traffickers, particularly of children. If you doubt it, go for a ride along with ICE in San Diego or Los Angeles a few times. See what you see, then come back here and cry about children being put in "cages".

 

I honestly had no idea , I do trust you as a good source of information. I really am sad to hear this.

[Gary M]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 You believe that this human rights abuse is okay because of the possibility that some of them are criminals?

 

They are all criminals, they are entering my country illegally.

 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, Gary M said:

 

They are all criminals, they are entering my country illegally.

 

 

No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country.

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

 

People coming here illegally are criminals.  We have every right, and more, responsibility to detain them.

 

Because of the nature of the circumstance, and the nature of the evil being combated, this is the best and most humane way to vet the situation.

 

Do the research, Happy.  Learn how vast the problem is in scope.  Understand how the trafficking rings work.

 

Then present me with a solution.

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

 

See Tom's quote above. You're arguing that because some real families will be temporarily separated, we shouldn't save the kids being trafficked by separating them from the adults pretending to be their parents. 

 

Talk about savage. That's horrendous logic, and EXACTLY why they want you mindlessly pushing this political (not compassion based) attack. They think you're stupid, Gary. Don't prove them right.

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, ALF said:

 

I honestly had no idea , I do trust you as a good source of information. I really am sad to hear this.

 

Three things I know about DR, knowing him outside of this board.

1) He's nuts.  Benignly so ..but still...

2) He does have real and good sources.

3) He can't explain turbulence.

[Albwan]

1 minute ago, peace out said:

 

No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country.

Its not theirs, either.

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

I honestly had no idea , I do trust you as a good source of information. I really am sad to hear this.

 

I didn't either. I thought it was bull **** like Gary and Happy. Then I went out and saw it myself. I talked to the victims. I talked to the traffickers. I talked to the LEOs who make these raids every night in SoCal. 

 

The worst part is the systemic nature of this. It's everywhere. Not just in SoCal. And it's everywhere because many institutions which are supposed to protect children are horribly compromised by those who prey on children. There's a national conversation about this coming, it won't be pretty and it won't be easy for anyone. But it has to happen because there are children today who we could help if we only were aware of their plight. 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

See Tom's quote above. You're arguing that because some real families will be temporarily separated, we shouldn't save the kids being trafficked by separating them from the adults pretending to be their parents. 

 

Talk about savage. That's horrendous logic, and EXACTLY why they want you mindlessly pushing this political (not compassion based) attack. They think you're stupid, Gary. Don't prove them right.

 

That wasn't my point.  My point was simply that he's making an argument that's !@#$ed sideways.  "We must endanger the children to protect the children!"

 

That's not even an argument.  It's ignorant, lazy, emotional manipulation.

[Prickly Pete]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

 

You keep throwing around "months"...I wonder what the true average time is. And the age of the kids there for months. And of the kids there for months, the status of the people they were apprehended with. These things matter.

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Three things I know about DR, knowing him outside of this board.

1) He's nuts.  Benignly so ..but still...

2) He does have real and good sources.

3) He can't explain turbulence.

 

Can confirm.  

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, peace out said:

 

No, they're not all criminals. It's not your country.

 

They're here illegally.  They're criminals BY DEFINITION.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

That wasn't my point.  My point was simply that he's making an argument that's !@#$ed sideways.  "We must endanger the children to protect the children!"

 

That's not even an argument.  It's ignorant, lazy, emotional manipulation.

 

There was supposed to be a line break - stupid Siri. Meant it as an aside, not as a tie in to my thought.

[DC Tom]

Just now, OJ Tom said:

 

You keep throwing around "months"...I wonder what the true average time is. And the age of the kids there for months. And of the kids there for months, the status of the people they were apprehended with. These things matter.

 

 

 

 

About 45 days, from what I've heard.  But I'm starting to think that's a lie, and it's probably less.

[Albwan]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I didn't either. I thought it was bull **** like Gary and Happy. Then I went out and saw it myself. I talked to the victims. I talked to the traffickers. I talked to the LEOs who make these raids every night in SoCal. 

 

The worst part is the systemic nature of this. It's everywhere. Not just in SoCal. And it's everywhere because many institutions which are supposed to protect children are horribly compromised by those who prey on children. There's a national conversation about this coming, it won't be pretty and it won't be easy for anyone. But it has to happen because there are children today who we could help if we only were aware of their plight. 

too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more.

There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Those children are screaming because they were ripped from the arms of their sex traffickers, dont you know?

 

Everyone in this thread should listen to the Pro Publica audio. It's really bad. There is no excuse for this.

 

lol shaun king, NOPE.

 

may as well ring up Chairman Mao.

 

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

They're here illegally.  They're criminals BY DEFINITION.

 

Yeah, a few guys are apprehended with a group of children, sneaking across an international border, and the immigration officers are supposed to take their word!

[IDBillzFan]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

I know people involved in these raids personally. Have spent time with them. Seen the evidence they collected in the aftermath of several raids. 

 

Guess what they discovered about how a lot of these kids got into the country? 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announces-results-of-operation-cross-country-xi

http://abc7.com/hundreds-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown-in-ca/3007899/

http://fox5sandiego.com/2018/01/31/29-men-arrested-in-sex-trafficking-sting/

 

 

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

You're literally making this all up

 

21 minutes ago, peace out said:

It's pathetic and not worth responding to.

 

Just saving the resident lefties some time.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, Albwan said:

too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more.

There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it.

 

The proof of that is that this is the second time they've tried to push this "Trump abuses children" spin on this story.  The first time didn't gain traction because they used footage from the Obama administration. 

 

This is the most blatantly obvious manipulation I've ever seen.

3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

 

 

Just saving the resident lefties some time.

 

You forgot gatorman: "Paint chips are only a sometimes food!"

Edited June 18, 2018 by DC Tom

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Albwan said:

too logical and true, cmon, most of us know this whole thing is a back door for trump hate, and nothing more.

There would be zero outrage if this was during the obama administration in which case no one would even know about it.

 

That nails it. All the people upset and worried about the children have their hearts in the right place. They're just unaware of the larger context and real issue because they're being led by partisans rather than people who actually care about the issue.

 

And yes - there is partisan rhetoric on both (all) sides on this issue, it's not just the left. Part of me thinks the reason this is being made into an issue by the administration (and they are making this an issue by enforcing the law, no doubt about it) IS to draw attention to this larger topic. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is not a principle that should ever be employed in America. "Ah we don't know for sure that this person isn't a human trafficker. Best to rip the crying child away from them and sort it out in a couple months."

 

Best solution?

TURN EVERYONE AT THE BORDER AWAY.

 

That way no one has to be separated from their parents.