MMQB: Why the Browns are making a mistake with Baker Mayfield (by starting Tyrod)

[SWATeam]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Helping you out like when I encouraged you to change your name from "Teeflebees"  to something less stalker-ish.

 

I think ScottLaw should consider changing his name to Badoleebees.

[Big Gun]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they started the season 4-3 or 5-2.

Of course you wouldn't. But yeah I guess they could beat the Steelers twice, the saints and raiders on the road and the ravens, chiefs, Falcons and chargers. Heck maybe they can go 10- 0 in their first 10 games.

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said:

Of course you wouldn't. But yeah I guess they could beat the Steelers twice, the saints and raiders on the road and the ravens, chiefs, Falcons and chargers. Heck maybe they can go 10- 0 in their first 10 games.

Imo the deck is tacked against Jackson and Taylor.  They start the year of slowly both are out imo.  As much as they want to win I think the plan is for Taylor to start they lose he is benched for Mayfield and Hue is fired for Haley.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

13 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Of course you wouldn't. But yeah I guess they could beat the Steelers twice, the saints and raiders on the road and the ravens, chiefs, Falcons and chargers. Heck maybe they can go 10- 0 in their first 10 games.

I don't think they'll be anywhere close to 10-0 and I expect an 0-2 start based on what we know today for them. But the Jets, Ravens, and Chargers at home aren't crazy, @TB isn't crazy either. @OAK is my ? between 4-3 and 5-2. KC is another coin-flip. I think they finish with somewhere between 6 and 8 wins, mostly coming from the first half of their schedule.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

I think ScottLaw should consider changing his name to Badoleebees.

 

 

You should do something like that SWAT........you are like one of those dudes that's played 3,000 games and hasn't hit a HR yet.   ?

 

[SWATeam]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You should do something like that SWAT........you are like one of those dudes that's played 3,000 games and hasn't hit a HR yet.   ?

 

I didn't quite make it to 3,000.  I walked away early to pursue a career in radio.  

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

 

I like SWATeam better. 

Jokes are supposed to be funny.?

 

When since it was about you....I can see why you didn't find any humor in it.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

When since? You being mad is hurting your grammar brah. 

 

Oh no a typo....the horror.

[Bills757]

On 5/15/2018 at 8:14 AM, The Red King said:

 

Classic deflection by not actually addressing or refuting anything said.  Carry on.

Because it’s wrought with so much made up BS, I’d spend way too much time pointing out the errors. 

[The Red King]

34 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

Because it’s wrought with so much made up BS, I’d spend way too much time pointing out the errors. 

 

Mhm.  Well, your posts on the matter are so much made up BS and spin that I'd spend way too much time pointing out the errors.  You're right, not actually disputing someone else's assertions is a lot easier then actually making a real argument.  Since I made points, and you refuse to actually refute them with anything other then just calling them BS, I suppose we're done here?  I made my point, you let it stand.

Edited May 16, 2018 by The Red King

[twoandfourteen]

20 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes the old 300 yard argument. The ultimate gold standard for QBs according to TBD.?

 

You said in an earlier post: " the guy was GREAT at the deep passing game"

 

So, to clarify: You are claiming that that the Bills had a GREAT deep passing game with Tyrod Taylor, even though it didn't produce yards or points. 

 

Makes sense. 

 

Also, the "300 yard game" is far from the "ultimate gold standard". It's a metric of basic competence at the QB position. No one was expecting Taylor to be Kurt Warner, but when more than half of your games are under 200 yards passing...

 

Tyrod Taylor Buffalo Bills 2015-2017

 

Passing Yards

43 games under 300 - 97.7%

38 games under 280 - 86.3%

30 games under 230 - 68.1%

23 games under 200 - 52.2%

16 games under 180 - 36.3%

7 games under 130 - 15.9%

 

Passing TDs

Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6%

Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9%

Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1%

Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2%

 

31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4%

38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3%

 

13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5%

 

Man... those are some "GREAT" numbers. Face it. The guy sucked as a QB. One of the most overrated players in Bills history.

[grb]

On 5/16/2018 at 12:36 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Then I guess you don't know what to tell me. What you've got there is a justification. Watkins played in eight games. He was healthy enough to get 154 yards in one. And yet he wasn't productive overall in long balls. It's a justification.

 

Again, Goodwin played in 15 games, Clay played in 15 and was open long.

 

Tyrod simply wasn't hitting the long balls the way he had been in 2015. You said that the new regime getting rid of Watkins and Woods destroyed his long ball stats. Not true. They were pretty much the same in 2016 as they were in 2017. Bad. And what showed up in the stats was easily visible to the naked eye. Overthrow after overthrow.

 

Yet again, I hope he solves the problem and does well with the Browns. He's a good guy.

 

Pretty funny. Watkins plays eight games with a broken left foot - with all the pain that entails -  but our own Thurman#1 is here to insist that wasn't a factor in SW running long routes. We can only assume Thurman#1 would be out at the track running sprints if his foot was broken. No excuses, huh? 

 

I understand it's every fan's right to be cavalier about athletic injuries, but you can take that to ludicrous extremes. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

He is good at throwing the deep ball. 

 

The Bills lost just about all of their deep ball threats through last season and their WRs were trash. 

 

Tyrod is is far from great but he is also far from bad. You win games by your offense protecting the football and scoring points. The Bills offense was TREMENDOUS at that in large part due to Tyrod in 2015 and 2016. 

 

68 % of games under 230 yards 

16 % of games under 130 yards 

 

100 % of your posts regarding Tyrod = fail 

 

Tyrod in a playoff game level fail 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Big Gun]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He is good at throwing the deep ball. 

 

The Bills lost just about all of their deep ball threats through last season and their WRs were trash. 

 

Tyrod is is far from great but he is also far from bad. You win games by your offense protecting the football and scoring points. The Bills offense was TREMENDOUS at that in large part due to Tyrod in 2015 and 2016. 

No, he really is bad. 

 

If he was any good he would still be a Buffalo Bill.

[elroy16]

18 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He is good at throwing the deep ball. 

 

The Bills lost just about all of their deep ball threats through last season and their WRs were trash. 

 

Tyrod is is far from great but he is also far from bad. You win games by your offense protecting the football and scoring points. The Bills offense was TREMENDOUS at that in large part due to Tyrod in 2015 and 2016. 

 

 

I'd hardly call the 12th and 11th ranked offense in PPG "TREMENDOUS," especially when they led the league in rushing both years.

 

Yes, I realize that Tyrod helped with the rushing total, but that good a run game should have helped tremendously in the pass game. Even with such a good run game, Tyrod's net yards per attempt were 13th in 2015 and an abysmal 25th in 2016. Yes, yes, I know, it was because of the trash WR's. 

 

 

The proof will be in what happens this year. 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by elroy16

[grb]

59 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

I'd hardly call the 12th and 11th ranked offense in PPG "TREMENDOUS," especially when they led the league in rushing both years.

 

Yes, I realize that Tyrod helped with the rushing total, but that good a run game should have helped tremendously in the pass game. Even with such a good run game, Tyrod's net yards per attempt were 13th in 2015 and an abysmal 25th in 2016. Yes, yes, I know, it was because of the trash WR's. 

 

 

The proof will be in what happens this year. 

 

 

Two points :

• "Even with such a good run game, Tyrod's net yards per attempt were 13th in 2015..."  That's just plain wacko one-hundred percent wrong. In 2015 - the only time Taylor ever had two functioning NFL-grade receivers regularly on the field - his yards-per-attempt was 5th in the league, at 7.99 ypa. Maybe the poster is trying to do something clever with "net yards per attempt" as opposed to "yards per attempt"; who knows? As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." The fact remains the one year Taylor had a deep threat (who wasn't running on a broken left foot), he was in the top five in the NFL at yardage per pass. 

            http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt/year/2015

• Now my point of agreement with Elroy16 : "The proof will be in what happens this year." Absolutely; and what's more, we'll all be back hashing it out right here in this forum, probably week by week. Hell, we can't stop arguing about the guy even during the dead of off-season, with him exiled to gawdforsaken Cleveland. I really wonder what some of the more buffoonish voices in this debate will do when real games are being played. Will Teddy KGB show his face then?

[elroy16]

35 minutes ago, grb said:

 

Two points :

• "Even with such a good run game, Tyrod's net yards per attempt were 13th in 2015..."  That's just plain wacko one-hundred percent wrong. In 2015 - the only time Taylor ever had two functioning NFL-grade receivers regularly on the field - his yards-per-attempt was 5th in the league, at 7.99 ypa. Maybe the poster is trying to do something clever with "net yards per attempt" as opposed to "yards per attempt"; who knows? As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." The fact remains the one year Taylor had a deep threat (who wasn't running on a broken left foot), he was in the top five in the NFL at yardage per pass. 

            http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt/year/2015

• Now my point of agreement with Elroy16 : "The proof will be in what happens this year." Absolutely; and what's more, we'll all be back hashing it out right here in this forum, probably week by week. Hell, we can't stop arguing about the guy even during the dead of off-season, with him exiled to gawdforsaken Cleveland. I really wonder what some of the more buffoonish voices in this debate will do when real games are being played. Will Teddy KGB show his face then?

 

 

You're right. I pulled the team stat from the following link instead of the individual stat. Using the team stat instead of individual was an obvious oversight that I did not intentionally do to deceive anyone. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/#

 

He still had poor numbers in 2016 and 2017. I know he didn't have all these weapons that are required to put up numbers, but that's the problem with Tyrod. He's ok, but can't elevate anyone's game. His intermediate passing is sorely lacking which let's teams focus on the run and avoiding deep passes. 

 

Tyrod played well in stretches, but wasn't nearly consistent enough. You won't convince me he's more than an extremity athletic QB, who throws a decent deep ball, but won't make enough throws to be a top 15 QB. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[The Red King]

Any discussion of Tyrod at this point is...

 

 

People are pretty locked into their opinions by now.  The same arguments get made.  Whatever your current opinion of TT is, you are not going to sway anyone holding a differing view.  And that's understandable.  We've had time to form those opinions, with the JAX playoff game galvanizing them for many.  There is nothing that has happened or become known since then that is tangible enough to change those opinions.  Until there is, this is pointless.  Discuss about TT has degenerated into "Uh-huh!"..."Nu-unh!"..."Uh-huh!"..."Nu-unh!"..."Uh-huh!"...and people are starting to get nasty about it, throwing out insults against anyone who dare hold a differing opinion on the man.

 

This deadlock can't be broken right now, it's pointless to try.  Ultimately, time will tell.  Tyrod is with the Browns, and we'll see what he does with a new team, coach and personnel.  Until then, it may be best if people let the whole TT argument go.  There is absolutely nothing positive to come from it any longer.

[grb]

2 hours ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

You're right. I pulled the team stat from the following link instead of the individual stat. Using the team stat instead of individual was an obvious oversight that I did not intentionally do to deceive anyone. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/#

 

He still had poor numbers in 2016 and 2017. I know he didn't have all these weapons that are required to put up numbers, but that's the problem with Tyrod. He's ok, but can't elevate anyone's game. His intermediate passing is sorely lacking which let's teams focus on the run and avoiding deep passes. 

 

Tyrod played well in stretches, but wasn't nearly consistent enough. You won't convince me he's more than an extremity athletic QB, who throws a decent deep ball, but won't make enough throws to be a top 15 QB. 

 

We're drowning in football stats; there's a number for everything under the sun. I don't think anyone can keep'em all straight. As for Taylor not being a "top 15 qb", he finished 7th in passer rating in 2015, 13th and 16th in following years. Whatever qualms you might have about the NFL's passer rating system, I think it's a stretch to say he'll never be a top 15 quarterback. That's like the people who say he's good for 8-9 wins max, ignoring the fact he delivered at least eight wins two of his three years starting, and with deeply flawed teams to boot. Taylor's real problem seems to be the tendency to dead-zone games. These aren't the multi-interception mega-stinkers all quarterbacks have, but they're still bad by being extremely ineffectual, and have come a couple of times too often in a season at least. Whether experience and much-better weapons help alleviate that flaw, we'll see...